Topic: 1972 CB500 Project. Am I in over my head?

[kasper.tyler]

Welcome to the party! Haha. Hopefully my troubles and problems can help you down the road as well. I'll be flipping through your posts for tips on my own.
I'll be investing in some more cleaning tools once I get everything taken apart. Right now I'm too concerned with getting it all apart so I can clean things individually.

Thanks for taking an interest though, feels good to have people care about the Honda that everyone told me to throw away haha.

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[2strokeTrush]

Those are not small bolts, they are the valve tappet Adjusters, be careful with the head.

[kasper.tyler]

Hello again from STL. I didn't have much time to work on the motor this evening, but after some research, I figured I had enough time to get the cam out. I didn't take any pictures with this phone during the process, other than this one.



I made sure to suspend the chain so it couldn't fall down into the engine. Thanks for the tip on that, calj. Your directions and a video helped me get the cam out with no trouble whatsoever.







Other than that, I didn't get very far. I'm having a hard time sourcing a tool locally that will remove these spark plugs. As far as I can tell, this is the right TYPE of tool, just the incorrect SIZE. It's too big for the spark plugs.

Being the innovative type, I found some scrap aluminum lying around and folded it into little pieces to secure around the edges of the tool, effectively making it for a smaller size.



As you can see, it worked great!



....that is until the crappy old tool itself decided to take a #$%*.



So I'm calling it a night and leaving it alone until I can find the right size tool.

Cheers!


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[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Loads of them for sale on eBay. Check your head for gamage. You have a bit of a gouge on the lower right side of your image. Make sure you don't have any that compromise the gasket and seal between the head and rocker cover.

[kasper.tyler]

I'm trying to avoid eBay, the shipping takes too long and I have the weekend off to work on it. I'd hate to waste it because I can't get past a tiny problem. I'll look into it, though.
And as far as the gouge you're talking about... I don't see it. I'm not as sharp of an eye for these things, though. That being said, the whole thing is still very dirty and rusty, so it may just be that.
Regardless, I'll take a very close look at it all. Everything was sealed together well when I took it apart. Thanks for the tip.

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[onetruepunk87]

It sucks waiting for parts but sometimes eBay is unavoidable. I always try and check the parts for sale on here first when I'm looking for something.

Luckily, spark plug wrenches are pretty common and you don't need the original Honda part.
http://4into1.com/wps-deep-well-12mm-spark-plug-wrench-18mm-hex-size/

[kasper.tyler]

I thankfully found a spark plug socket that fit the job, and for that I'm thankful. I took some more apart last night.

With the head off, the tops of the pistons are now visible... And pretty dirty. But I suppose that's par for the course when your job is to have little explosions on top of you all the time.







I wanted to get the oil pan off so that I could completely clean out the insides of the 30 year old oil. I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to accomplish that yet, but I'll figure it out soon. The gears inside seem to be clean, and upon my initial inspection none of them appeared to be broken, damaged, or in need of replacement. I'll probably be leaving the transmission alone, as I don't want to take apart something that seems to be just fine as it is.

That said, here are some more images of that so that you guys can be the judge of whether or not it needs to be torn into.







I was able to turn the crank and watch all the pistons move, careful to avoid losing or damaging the timing chain. Everything moved freely and without any force. All good signs!



I didn't have time to really mess with the oil pan or look at it until today, and after wiping up some of the oil, I found there seems to be some metallic grime on the bottom of it. Not sure if that's normal or not. I also found about 1.5 cm worth of a piston ring down in there, which seems to be about as far from home as that could get. Also not sure if that would have any adverse effects on the rest of the internals.



Anyway, today I got the head completely off today. The pistons look good to me, I can't find anything to complain about them. Although I'm not sure I'll be keeping them. More on that later.



The cylinder walls look great! No pitting or strange grooves or anything. The insides are very shiny and clean.







I spent a little bit of time with a wire brush and a rag cleaning off the funk and gunk from the head. Amazing what a little love and scrub can do to an old piece of metal. Big morale boost for sure.








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[kasper.tyler]

So as of right now I have a few big questions regarding the direction I'll be heading with this. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

My goals with this build are to make it safe, fun, and quick -- in that order.

In order to make it quick, what should I focus on doing at this stage? Would it be wise to invest in a big bore kit and have someone machine the block? How much more disassembly is required for that to happen? Or would it be wiser to focus on other upgrades and leave the displacement where it is? As an American, I've assumed there's "no replacement for displacement" since birth, but that isn't necessarily true anymore.

Quickness to me isn't necessarily being able to win races on this bike... That won't be its purpose. But going down the road and hitting the throttle, I want to feel acceleration pretty quickly. My GS450 doesn't have this feeling. It revs high before "hooking" and then it starts going. It's the same feeling you get in a little 4-banger CVT sedan when you hit the gas and wait a bit before you start actually moving faster. I don't like that feeling much, as I'm sure neither do any of you.

Also, how the hell do I really clean this thing? Do I need to remove all the gears to clean the inside or could I hypothetically dump any of these parts into a diluted bucket of simple green and call it a day? There is a ton of dirt and grime built up on this thing, and I would like it to be shiny again. Ideally, I'd like to be able to submerge the valve covers and head, valves and all, and let them soak off the gross stuff. Is that possible?

Thanks ahead of time for the help. Sorry to ask to many questions, but I'd rather combine the advice from you guys with my own research before making a big decision.

Cheers!


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[Restoration Fan]

Just for my own personal clarification:  if he did go with the overbore (which by the way is a great price, I paid around $100 just for my 4 sets of piston rings), he could actually go back with the 550 cam if he wanted to do so, right?  The 650 cam is just for more HP, correct?

[flatlander]

yes he could use a 550 cam but the 650 cam produces more power, and sooner. will get more out of the overbore pistons.
these honda cams were profiled to meet emission requirements at the time, so they are all a bit of a compromise but the 650 is the hottest of the bunch. any cam optimised for performance will do better but it will also cost a lot more.

kasper with your priorities of "safe, fun, and quick" do as cal says and spend some time and money on the chassis (suspension and bearings), and brakes. i did that even before i tore into the engine and it transforemed the way the bike handled so much. i'd even say those are necessary prerequisites in order to be able to make use of an upgraded engine.

[flatlander]

... and while the oil pan is off, check how the primary chain feels. it seems like many people replace it as a matter of routine but if you're not inclined to split the cases, at least make sure it's still good at this point.

[kasper.tyler]

calj - Your answer was just was I was looking for. I think the big bore kit had my interest, but I wasn't sure it was a viable option. Glad to hear that it most definitely is. I have a buddy who works for a machine shop, I'll pay him a visit tomorrow and see about the cost of getting it machined. As far as cleaning, the inside will see a flush as suggested, but I also need to clean the outside of the motor- particularly in between the fins. There was a colony of wasps that holed up inside this bike at some point in the last couple of decades. Their homes and a ton of dirt/oil/funk are all over this engine, and I'd like to get it all cleaned up as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Also- after a little bit of looking into the 650 cam for the motor, it seems there may be different versions. Am I looking for a specific year/model to harvest that part from?
Side note: I'll DEFINITELY be looking into high quality chassis parts once the engine is done. I absolutely want this bike to stop just as quickly as it goes.

Restoration Fan - I'm glad you asked that question, because I was wondering that as well. Thanks for covering that for me.

flatlander - all this talk about the 650 cam has convinced me that I should look into it. You and calj have been a great deal of help and a wealth of knowledge thus far, so I'll trust your judgment that you know what sort of "feel" I'm looking for from the engine. So thank you for that.
And no worries, chassis parts will be top notch. I don't want to build this bike only to have it kill me because I cut corners.
--and as far as the primary chain; it looks good to me. I don't know what to look at or feel for to know if it needs replacing, though.

Thanks again, everyone.

[Puffin]

I slotted a 650 cam straight in no problem but the clearance been the taller lobes and the engine case was very small.   Some people find it actually touches.   You can grind of some of the engine case quite easy but I recommend you test it whilst you have it off the bike as it will be easier to work with if you have to get your dremel tool involved.

When the primary chain gets too loose it starts to eat into the engine case at the bottom of the engine around the oil gallery.  You can see this by looking up from underneath.   Have a look at the beginning of my build thread for photos.

[kasper.tyler]

Thanks for all the clarification with the cam. I'll be looking into it more in the coming weeks as things come together. I'll be sure to check clearance on the new cam to make certain it doesn't hit anywhere inside.

Any idea where I can find the new tach and tach gear? I figured I'd hit the local Honda shop tomorrow and ask them about those parts and how much the carbs will take to be rebuilt. I've never done it and thought about undertaking it myself, but I'd rather the carbs be done correctly so I get all the power out of them that I can.

Final question: I was going to let the cylinders soak in a bucket of water and simple green tomorrow morning. Is that safe to do without harming the cylinders? And how long should I soak them for?

Did some cleaning today on the engine but I can only get so much with a brush. Which, by the way, if you're looking for an inexpensive option to clean between the fins, a toothbrush with some excess shaved off works great haha.



These work alright, too.



Bonus: not for long



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[2strokeTrush]

If your going to have a machine shop do work on your cylinders you might as well have them clean the outside as well.

[kasper.tyler]

Money has me waiting around to get new Pistons and other pets for the Honda, so the project is at a standstill. Thought I'd share a fun little experience that happened the other day, though.

Pulled into my buddy's driveway to have a few drinks and shoot the wind and right as I was coming to a stop, the clutch cable on my Suzuki GS450 snapped. Thankfully it's about as powerful as a leaf blower, so it just died in first gear and I parked it.

I was determined to get it home, so we set out to fix it. With none of my tools... And no stores locally that had the part at 9pm on a Wednesday... And no idea how to fix a clutch cable lol.

So I decided after pulling off the cover that I could just wrap some tomato cage wire around the piece that holds the clutch cable in place.

Clutch Repair Mk.1
This worked in getting the clutch to engage, however it came loose almost immediately.



Clutch Repair Mk.2
This also worked, however it kept the clutch engaged the whole time and wouldn't allow for it to actually go into gear.



I had a third version that came unlooped almost immediately, this was me getting frustrated with it.



Clutch Repair Mk.4
This one worked great! I was able to ride it home with no problems whatsoever, other than the clutch feeling much tighter.



I'll be fixing it next week, but I figured you might enjoy my little MacGyver story.

Cheers!



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