Topic: HELP. Steel washer fallen into crankcase.

[mrglover]

Hi,

After rebuilding and repainting my CB750 f2 '77, I managed to fumble a small stainless steel spring washer down the Cam Chain channel. Having had to repair a stripped out thread I was literally checking the last rocker cover bolt would now tighten (with rocker cover off), and the washer fell off the bolt. Bearing in mind I've spent more hours and money than I can admit to, It's safe to say I'm devastated having fallen at the final hurdle.
The engine is back in the bike now as a friend could only lend me his lifting skills for one day (he's going away for weeks), so I thought what the hell, I can always take it out again if needs must . Does anyone know of any clever way of being able to find it with the sump and oil pump out? I've tried with a magnet on a rod, but it's tight under there and I can't work out where I'm going!

The last thing I want to do is pull the engine out and go through the time and expense of having to re-gasket and paint it (although I'm starting to accept this fate). I just wondered if anyone else had any suggestions or knew of any other access into the crankcase, so I can prod a magnet around. I'm even considering buying a massive recovery magnet to try and encourage it out, but it would need to be giant to have enough pull through that kind of distance!

I read about a guy losing a copper washer in there and managing to get it out without taking it apart... I just need some suggestions so I can get some sleep tonight

[70CB750]

Is the washer even magnetic?

Did you try to drop the oil pan?

[flybox1]

yes, if its magnetic, and if it fell all the way through, i bet you could get it from underneath. you'll need a magnet on a bendable wire.
shake the cam chain laterally to make sure the washer didnt get wedged between it and the plastic runner.
the washer, if it fell all the way down, can only be in the chamber right below cyl #3
you'll have to maneuver around the sides of the primary chain tensioner, but its doable

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Or attempt to suction it out. Tape a smaller hose to your shop vac hose and thread it down or up whichever the case.

[faux fiddy]

Spinning the motor might help it drop in the pan, then you might find it by taking the pan off.  Or take the pan off and spin it with a wrench and look/ listen for it to drop.

[MickB]

You should be able to buy a magnet on a telescopic arm (about 8" long)  that has a small mirror or 1 that has an LED at the magnetic end. Available from any auto shop, drop the sump and with a bit a luck fishing around you should find it.
Same thing happened to me and this worked.

[mrglover]

Hi,

Yes the washer is magnetic. I tested it with another one I had, and the tool attracted it well. I have turned the engine round, hoping, if it had landed on top of the primary chain that it would drop down into the case and I'd grab it, but no such luck this far. (this is where with the tip of a scalpel blade had landed when I'd had the barrels off , but access then wasn't an issue so the magnet picked it right off- yeah I have has a serious unlucky streak with this bike!)

The oil pan is off and pump is removed,so I do have some access. I wish I could give the vacuum a go, but I'm working in a garage without any electricity!

The fact someone else has had some joy gives me some hope (Thanks MickB!)

I'm going to give the bike a good shake and spend the weekend under it trying to find this thing! The primary tensioner just gets in the way a bit, but I will persevere....right now I don't have any other option!

[DaveBarbier]

Only other thing I can think of is: http://www.transcat.com/extech-br80-br80?st-t=adword_google_*&gclid=CNnXoM78vMUCFXMA7AodHRIAXA
Might be a good investment if you're prone to dropping things into the motor, haha.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[strynboen]

 

[mrglover]

Funny you should mention the transcat, as I was looking at this cheaper version a few hours before posting... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-2M-USB-Waterproof-Endoscope-Borescope-Snake-4-LED-Inspection-Tube-Camera-UK-/231495419082?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35e633c4ca

I've always fancied an old tractor, but I don't think my lady friend will entertain me having another project- even if it can help fix the problems with the first one!

[Eydugstr]

d'oh!!

[mystic_1]

Make sure to also try removing the two round inspection covers on the bottom of the motor near the main bearing bolts, your washer may have ended up there.

mystic_1

[mrglover]

An update for the next person who suffers this incident...

Well I've found the damn thing after 9 hours of searching (most of it from under the bike AND using an endoscope from eBay), I gave up and called in a favour. I took the engine out again (I've got this down to a fine art now and can get it out in 10 mins using webbing straps and a scaffold pole). Rocker cover/rockers/ camshaft/cam-sprocket removed I eventually discovered the washer sat on top of the crankcase gasket in a recess under the cylinders (see picture - they're not my barrels, I just used a pic from net and photoshopped it).  A thin precision telescopic magnet got it out in the end.

All told I'll need to replace the rocker cover gasket and set the valve clearances, so it's not quite the disaster it could have been. I intend to be extremely careful putting it back together.

If this happens to you in the future, just bear it in mind. If the engine was in the bike you could lean it over as far as you can manage, it might slide off and drop down. Going from the underside is a nightmare though (oil drips on your face so wear goggles), even with the bike on a lift giving the best access,  the magnet sticks to everything and if a washer gets lodged by the primary chain tensioner bolt, you'll have a hell of a time trying to get to it blind.  If the engine isn't in the bike, you can poke a thin magnet down though the gap under the cam-chain sprocket, saving you removing it all- I expect I could have had quick success if id know to look there from the off.

Good luck!

[DaveBarbier]

Sneaky little bastard.


---
1978 Honda CB550K

[PeWe]

Lucky place to land, not hidden in the cam-primary chains/tensioners.
I have recently have thought abouy NOT dropping parts into the deper parts. Like cam bolts when changing cam. I glue them so they sit very tight and I'm convinced that it will be broken when untighten. So far no problem. I guess I need to change the old cam bolts, tighten about 10 times. I have not found anything better with same wide head.

Easier if the frame is cut over the carbs, frame mod installed. Valve cover, head, cyl can be removed without pulling engine.
Back in the days I just pulled engine did all and put it back again and used the bike.

Different now 28-35 years later... I did all completely 2012-2013 but had to do some again, now with engine in frame. Got the idea of frame mod on this forum that made all after work much easier.
I have changed cam 3 times, lifted head once again to restore it completely, replaced cyl studs, replaced valve cover. All without pulling engine.

[DH]

Would it have been any easier if you removed the cam chain tensioner housing? Just curious. Always better safe than sorry, good you found it. You'll sleep better