Topic: 550k1 rockers on cylinders #1 & 4 loose when they should be tight

[saxamaphone]

Hi guys, I was putting my cam cover back on my 550k1 engine today and when I adjusted the valves, the intake and exhaust rockers on cylinders 1 and 4 were loose on the compression stroke and also when not on the compression stroke.  I did not have that problem before I took the cam cover off.

I followed this procedure to adjust the valves from scratch.  With the cam cover off I lined up the notch in the camshaft with T 1/4, then put the cam cover on (with elastics) and adjusted cylinders #1 intake and exhaust, #2 exhaust, #3 intake. 
Then I rotated the crank º360 and went to adjust the rest but then noticed cylinder #1's rockers were very loose when they should be tight.  The same is true when I rotate the crank again and then cylinder #4's rockers are loose when they should be tight. 

I'm not sure what's going on and I don't want to bend any valves.  Has anyone experienced this or know what's going on here?

Thanks

[DaveBarbier]

You lined up the notch on the cam with what? Kinda hard to see, but like this while on 1-4 T mark?



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1978 Honda CB550K

[Vinhead1957]

You adjust only one cylinder when in that position! Either 1 or 4 but not both. Adjustment is made on the low side of the lobe when no tension is on the valve.  Then you rotate the engine 360 to do the other cylinder. The cam notch will not be in the same position! The TF line for 1/4 on your points plate will line up twice in valve  adjustment. The crankshaft turns over twice the speed of the cam.  So one cylinder is adjusted on the camnotch in that position the other cylinder the camnotch is 180 degrees of that phot.

[Duanob]

Get a manual that explains exactly how to do it. Your way your cam can be 180 degrees off, which sounds like what happened. Use the timing marks under the points cover.

[Tews19]

YouTube SOCOMOTO. He will walk you you through it.

[saxamaphone]

Thanks guys.  I've got the manual and have checked out Socomoto who's videos are very helpful.  My problem is that when I've got #1 on the compression stroke (cam notch lined up and at T 1/4) and I adjust the #1 exhaust and intake I then rotate the crank 360 to do #4 and #1's rockers are completely loose when they should not move. I then adjust #4's intake and exhaust and rotate 360 to check #1 again and then #4's are completely loose when they should be tight.  When I've adjusted the valves in the past this wasn't the case.

 I just took off the cam cover again and am trying to get the tach out and make sure that's not causing a problem.  I'll try it again without the tach and see. 

Thanks again.

[fmctm1sw]

Thanks guys.  I've got the manual and have checked out Socomoto who's videos are very helpful.  My problem is that when I've got #1 on the compression stroke (cam notch lined up and at T 1/4) and I adjust the #1 exhaust and intake I then rotate the crank 360 to do #4 and #1's rockers are completely loose when they should not move. I then adjust #4's intake and exhaust and rotate 360 to check #1 again and then #4's are completely loose when they should be tight.  When I've adjusted the valves in the past this wasn't the case.

 I just took off the cam cover again and am trying to get the tach out and make sure that's not causing a problem.  I'll try it again without the tach and see. 

Thanks again.

I just remove the tappet covers and watch the intake valves.  Once the intake valve starts coming back up, look at the rotor marks and stop at the "T".  The book says you adjust cylinder 1 and also 2 intake and 3 exhaust or something like that.  I can never remember which without the books. 

It may add a few crankshaft revolutions doing them individually but the intake valve cannot be wrong though.  Once it comes back up near the top look for the "T" then adjust.

[saxamaphone]

Hi, sorry, I realize this isn't a hard thing to do but something is messed up.  When watching #1 intake it starts coming back up and the next T mark is 2/3! I keep checking to make sure my valve timing is right and it's exactly what the manual says, the cam notch facing to the right with the T 1/4 lined up at the crank.   

Then I adjust the valve clearances like the manual says, starting with #1 and the rest that you can adjust then.  Then rotate 360 and do #4 and the rest you can do there.  #1 int/ex rockers should be tight there and they're really loose.

Thing is, I'm feeling slight resistance when turning the crank and then hear a little pop and the resistance is gone.  I assume this is me ruining my valves but I've checked the valve timing over and over again and it's right.  The notch lines up with the head at T 1/4. 

 

[enwri]

put it on the 1/4 timing mark.
one of the cylinders tappet gaps will be way too big. either one or four.
set the big gaps to measurement.
turn it 360,
the ones you set first should now be compressed,
the others should now have huge gaps, set them.

[DaveBarbier]

Hi, sorry, I realize this isn't a hard thing to do but something is messed up.  When watching #1 intake it starts coming back up and the next T mark is 2/3! I keep checking to make sure my valve timing is right and it's exactly what the manual says, the cam notch facing to the right with the T 1/4 lined up at the crank.

Are you saying that you are looking for the #1 intake tappet to start to raise, then looking through the peep hole on the timing plate and setting the notch to the next T mark that comes into view? Because that T is for 2/3. Keep rotating until the 1/4 T comes around.

Keep in mind the idea behind what you're trying to adjust. Tappet clearance is the needed gap between top of the valve and bottom of tappet adjusting screw which is attached to the rocker. The only time when there is no pressure from the tappets on both intake and exhaust valves for a cylinder is when that piston is at top dead center between it's compression and power stroke, so that's when you want to measure and adjust. When you're watching the intake valve for #1 start to rise, that #1 piston is just about to start to climb up to start its compression stroke. So the next time the 1/4 set of pistons on the timing plate lines up with the notch, you're good to adjust #1 because both 1 and 4 are at TDC with #1 just finishing its compression stroke and #4 has just finished its exhaust stroke. The 1/4 pistons rise and fall together (and 2/3 together).


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1978 Honda CB550K

[saxamaphone]

Hi, thanks very much for the info.  I think I know what was wrong now.  It was my understanding that when the cam shaft's notch is lined up for when you do the valve timing that is TDC compression stroke for #1 and you can adjust #1 valves there.  However, when I watch the intake valve for #1, the compression stroke is actually 360º away from when the cam notch is lined up.

I adjusted the valves watching the intake and the rockers are now loose when they are supposed to be loose and tight when they're supposed to be tight.

I still feel resistance at certain points when I turn the crank.  Then I hear a popping sound and the resistance is gone.  It sounds like it's coming from around the cam chain. 

If the valve timing is correct is it still possible for valves make contact with pistons at all?

[calj737]

The answer should be "No". However, it's still possible if the motor is not stock.

[enwri]

As the crank turns the cam chain pulls the cam around, as the rockers slide over the tops of the "hills" they can then push the cam around and suddenly take up the slack in the chain on the adjuster side, if there is too much slack it will slap against the adjuster and make a noise. especially noticeable when turning by hand.

[saxamaphone]

Hi, I haven't been able to work on the bike for a bit but I got back to it today and discovered why the crank was hard to turn and why I was hearing clunk noise when turning the crank.  I didn't have the cam chain tensioner sitting in it's spot in the lower case so it was pressing up against the chain much too tightly.  I took off the head and the raised up the cylinders and I'll reinstall the cam chain tensioner properly.  Note to anyone that reads "just drop the tensioner in" somewhere like I did: drop it in the specific spot in the lower case.

Thanks all for your replies and help.  I really appreciate it.

I found a tiny piece of black plastic on top of one of the pistons and there's no matching damage on the cam chain tensioner or the chain guide.  Not sure where it came from since I had just taken everything apart and cleaned everything.  Any ideas?  It's pretty flimsy material.  I can't think of what else above the cylinders that's made of black plastic.

IMG_2050 by HereIJam, on Flickr

[Tews19]

It looks to be part of the lower plastic wedge part of the cam tensioner. Not the tensioner itself but th half piece that sits between the lower end with the notch and the cylinders. Make sense? I can get a pic

[calj737]

I'm thrown off by the scale. Since that's a Canadian coin, do I use the currency converter and consider that part is actually 58% actual size?

[saxamaphone]

  Our currency really has taken a tumble since oil prices dropped.  It's more like 81% scale.  I enjoyed the last few years where we were above par with the US dollar.  Especially when ordering parts from the US.

Hi Tews, are you talking about this damper?  There wasn't one there when I took the cases apart.  I found the little bit of plastic on top of one of the pistons so was assuming it came from some where above the cylinders.

Edit: After studying the fiche more closely I realize now that I do have those dampers in the tensioner.