Topic: Need help with Kawasaki ignition

[MJL]

The bike n question is a 95 Kawasaki Nnija 600c.  It is identical to the first and only bike I have her bought new. (Second bike I bought) The ignition modules are no longer available, so I've done the GM HEI mod. The problem is that while the motor will run, it falls flat in higher rpms. That may have been due to poor carbueretion, there were random numbers of ahims under the needles. I haven't run it since removing the shims and installing stock exhaust.

The ignition controls the advance, so right now its just running straight up timing. I have a locked up 750 engine, and was looking at a way to adapt the mechanical advance (or the whole points setup) to the Kaw. Before I go modifying parts, does anyone know of an ignition box that controls timing, that would be easily adapted? I am think the Power Arc ignition could, but I don't want to spend that much to find out. I'm also looking at the Turboguzzi thread with the gixxer parts.

I'd like to use parts that are easily obtainable and reliable.

[Steve_K]

Try scrap yard and get a used one.  I would also check if the 750 or 1000 Ninjas and see if they are similar.  I think that 86 GIXXERs 750 and 1100 are similar to each other.  Maybe Kawis are the same.
Good luck
Steve

PS ebay a source?

[MJL]

Surprisingly eBay isn't a source for ignition boxes. I know the bikes were in production for over ten years, but it seems hard to find these bikes complete. Locally at least. I'd like to use parts that are relatively new, easy to find, and reliable. I spent a few minutes looking at megaspark, but I don't think that will be much use considering I'll need two.
There is a seven pin hei module that can be used with advance, but the engine ecm controls that, so I'd need an advance controller, again I'd need two. The gsxr system sounds good but I don't know about the advance stuff.

[Retro Rocket]

There is no way in hell I'd convert that bike to points...   Join a Kawasaki forum and find what you need....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-ZX600E-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-600-ZX6E-CDI-ignition-unit-ignitor-black-box-GOOD-/301458756881

new

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAWASAKI-IGNITER-ZX600-F1-F2-F3-1995-1996-1997-NINJA-ZX-6R-/380398451820

[MJL]

Except that Kawasaki had two different 600 models out during that time, with different engines. Yeah, makes it a little harder to buy parts. 

I am on a couple Kaw forums, but it's been a few years since I logged in to any, and when I did these weren't available.

This is the part I need. I hope you understand when I say I am leery about buying used electrical parts from eBay, especially when they weren't all that reliable to start with. http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-Ninja-ZX-600-A1-IGNITER-CDI-Ignitor-TCI-ECU-ECM-Computer-BOX-Kawasaki-EXC-/201440659948?hash=item2ee6cc89ec&vxp=mtr

Since I've already cut the plug off and done the HEI ignition, I'd have to find a new plug.

[Retro Rocket]

Except that Kawasaki had two different 600 models out during that time, with different engines. Yeah, makes it a little harder to buy parts. 

I am on a couple Kaw forums, but it's been a few years since I logged in to any, and when I did these weren't available.

This is the part I need. I hope you understand when I say I am leery about buying used electrical parts from eBay, especially when they weren't all that reliable to start with. http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-Ninja-ZX-600-A1-IGNITER-CDI-Ignitor-TCI-ECU-ECM-Computer-BOX-Kawasaki-EXC-/201440659948?hash=item2ee6cc89ec&vxp=mtr

Since I've already cut the plug off and done the HEI ignition, I'd have to find a new plug.

I understand, I had a GSX750 in the 80's, they had similar problems, I think the cure was to use a box from an RZ350 Yamaha, if my memory serves me correctly, there has to be some other model you can use the ignitor box from, Kawasaki has a pile of ignitor boxes starting with the same numbers.. 21119-   

[MJL]

It looks like all their igniter boxes start with 21119.

Not much online about different boxes. I mocked up a b750 mechanical advance with the electronic pickups and found that I'd have to space the pickups out a half inch or more to try to make it work, and that isn't going to happen. I had a few minutes at work to look at Dyna only to find that their website is terrible. As to the PowerArc, the CB points plate fits and bolts up to the Kaw (Or would if I spaced it out some) So, considering I have a PowerArc in my 750... I think I just might take it out and see what it would take to fit it. Space the plate out 3/8s or so, make a spacer to mount the trigger wheel, and bob's your uncle!

I'll be working overtime all weekend, so I won't be able to post about it until Wednesday evening.

[Retro Rocket]

It looks like all their igniter boxes start with 21119.

Not much online about different boxes. I mocked up a b750 mechanical advance with the electronic pickups and found that I'd have to space the pickups out a half inch or more to try to make it work, and that isn't going to happen. I had a few minutes at work to look at Dyna only to find that their website is terrible. As to the PowerArc, the CB points plate fits and bolts up to the Kaw (Or would if I spaced it out some) So, considering I have a PowerArc in my 750... I think I just might take it out and see what it would take to fit it. Space the plate out 3/8s or so, make a spacer to mount the trigger wheel, and bob's your uncle!

I'll be working overtime all weekend, so I won't be able to post about it until Wednesday evening.

Have you thought about contacting Kawasaki directly..?  If this is a common fault they will probably be able to tell you an easy fix...? 

[MJL]

I don't know, the bike is 20 years old now, I doubt there is much if any support anymore. One thing I've noticed in my googling is that current bikes appear to have the ECU and ignition all in one unit, so unless I also convert to fuel surcharge injection (not a bad idea) I'm kinda stuck.

One thing I've learned about fuel injection is that current water cooler bikes have the cam chain off to the end of the block, which leaves the question of the wider space between cylinders 2&3 on a sohc. This Kawasaki is the same way, with the cam chain in the middle. I'd have to finger that one out, too.

Back on point, early this morning I put the spare points plate up against the part that holds the hall effect sensors. The bolt circle is perfect and the spacing is good. Tonight I am going to take a bunch of measurements of the PA as installed on the Honda, and a few of the Kaw ignition.  While I'm at work, I'm going to look at the PA system and figure out if I can use the Kaw coils, or if I have to use the PA coils, or could I use the PA to trigger the HEI setup since it has the advance built in.

[Retro Rocket]

I don't know, the bike is 20 years old now, I doubt there is much if any support anymore. One thing I've noticed in my googling is that current bikes appear to have the ECU and ignition all in one unit, so unless I also convert to fuel surcharge injection (not a bad idea) I'm kinda stuck.

One thing I've learned about fuel injection is that current water cooler bikes have the cam chain off to the end of the block, which leaves the question of the wider space between cylinders 2&3 on a sohc. This Kawasaki is the same way, with the cam chain in the middle. I'd have to finger that one out, too.

Back on point, early this morning I put the spare points plate up against the part that holds the hall effect sensors. The bolt circle is perfect and the spacing is good. Tonight I am going to take a bunch of measurements of the PA as installed on the Honda, and a few of the Kaw ignition.  While I'm at work, I'm going to look at the PA system and figure out if I can use the Kaw coils, or if I have to use the PA coils, or could I use the PA to trigger the HEI setup since it has the advance built in.

I used to work in a fairly big motorcycle shop in Australia, when wanting older parts for any bike, we just contacted, for arguments sake, the biggest Kawasaki dealer that was close, or even Kawasaki Australia, usually there was someone who knew someone that could help, got any long term Kawasaki dealers close, its worth a chat. I also found that actually going in rather than ringing made them more likely to go out of their way to help.... You'll find a solution eventually, I bet its easier than you think too... well at least I hope it is.. ...

[MJL]

The dealer that I had bought mine from (I wish I still had it) stopped carrying Team Green for ten years or so.  The parts houses I check online either list it as no longer available, or $430 something.

I have a plan of action that will cost me nothing if it all pans out. I am hoping the machinist at work will have some free time to do government work for me.

[Retro Rocket]

The dealer that I had bought mine from (I wish I still had it) stopped carrying Team Green for ten years or so.  The parts houses I check online either list it as no longer available, or $430 something.

I have a plan of action that will cost me nothing if it all pans out. I am hoping the machinist at work will have some free time to do government work for me.

Good luck...

[MJL]

Thanks for the good wishes...

The machinist was busy all day, so I cut some aluminum stock and grabbed an assortment of socket head cap screws. Since I don't have proper tooling yet for my lathe, I am going to resort to using the mill. I've got a three jaw Chuck clamped to the table, so once I get the spindle dialed in it should be just a matter of minutes to drill and face the parts. I plan to shoot some video of the process as well. I just hate the thought of taking parts off the Honda, but I do have spare points plates to put back on. And, I'm not modifying the power Arc in any way so if it doesn't work on the Kaw, it can go back on the Honda. Just have to set my engines to TDc.

And by the way, this forum is a bad influence. I spent the last half hour looking for info on fork swaps. If can match it with a swingarm swap and get rid of the 16in wheels that are hard to find tires for.