Author Topic: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine  (Read 4064 times)

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Carl71cb500

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Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« on: May 26, 2005, 02:57:26 PM »
Would appreciate some advice for my 1971 cb500 that I've been restoring. I have replaced the exhaust and put in a carb kit, and it's running fairly good, but their is some white smoke coming out of the exhaust - and moreso if I ride it a few miles and the engine heats up. It also looks like there's some oil slowly coming out of the head gasket somehow (just gets a little black around it). The local (Oklahoma City) Honda dealer shop wants $75/hr, so I'd like to know if this might be something I could handle myself.

Anyway, thanks - and this place rules!!

-Carl
carlamburn@hotmail.com

Offline number13

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2005, 03:40:07 PM »
HEy Carl -
White smoke is usually unburnt gas, meaning you are running rich. My '73 500 did
this even after TWO carb rebuilds. I must have had those carbs off about 50 times trying to get it right, but ultimately lowering the jet needles helped a lot. After 34 years the needle and jet have worn and lowering the needle
helps reduce the effects of wear.
Best fix however is to replace EVERYTHING in the carbs, including the emulsion tube, which has to be bought seperately
from the kits. I think there is someone on e-bay selling a new set of 4 right now.

Heads leakage may just be loose bolts. Try retorquing.

BTW -  someone is parting out a 73 500 bolt by bolt, on e-bay, so there may be some goodies you need!

LOL
kevin
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2005, 05:40:55 PM »
When warm or hot pipes cool down moisture laden air (humidity) deposits condensation on the inside of the exhaust system.  If it can't or doesn't drain out, the next time the engine is run the heat vaporizes it and it appears as white smoke (steam) exiting the system.  If the engine and pipes are heated long enough, then all the water turns to vapor until depleted, whereby the white smoke ceases.  If the pipes are not throughly heated and of sufficient duration, water can build up in exhaust low points with repetative heat/cool cycles.  This could increase the duration of white smoke during warm ups.  This occurs frequently during winter operation when the pipes are more difficult to heat completely. This assumes an air cooled engine such as the SOHC4.  A liquid cooled engine can have the water jacket leak into the combustion chambers and then exit as white smoke, also.  Anti-freeze makes the exhaust kind of sweet smelling.  At least before asphyxia.

Unburned hydrocarbons, the result of a fuel mixture too rich, generally exit the exhaust as black smoke.  It also often leaves a deposit of soot inside the exhaust system, as well.  It will feel dry and powdery on the fingers.

Blue smoke, or smoke with a bluish tinge, is an indication of oil being burned and exhaust system deposits are black and oily on the fingers.

Oil Leaks-
Near each end of the CB500/CB550 cylinder bank is an oil passage providing oil to the valve train.  Where the head meets the cylinder block, an o ring is used to seal this passage.  With age and heat the o ring looses its seal and begins to weep.  It can, but not always, get progressively worse. I've had one weeping for the last 20 years.  It's anoying, for sure, but the bike just runs too well to take it apart for that minor leak.  To fix it, the head will have to be renewed as well as the gaskets and o rings.  You'll have to decide whether your leak is bad enough to address.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: May 27, 2005, 10:09:12 AM by TwoTired »
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Carl71cb500

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2005, 07:51:48 PM »
I really feel like it's burning a little oil and enough of it to think that it needs taken care of soon. How big is the can of worms, should I decide to take a look at the rings and gasket situiation myself? OR... does anyone know a good mechanic in the OKC area? :)

-Carl

Offline Lumbee

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2005, 08:30:36 PM »
...if you have the time I'd say did in and do it u'r self.  I've just completed a topend rebuild of a 750 (new rings/gaskets) and I can tell you it has been a very rewarding experience.  And no better feeling to hear it fire up that first time.  Just follow your manual, take your time and u'll be fine...
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Offline Steve F

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2005, 04:21:16 AM »
I have to disagree with number13's post.  White smoke is from burning oil, BLACK smoke is a rich condition.  Burning oil coming out of the pipes could mean the rings and cylinder walls are bad, or the valve guides and seals (intake) are bad and oil is being sucked into the intake past the seals.  If the oil is leaking on the exterior of the engine, a new gasket and o-ring set will take care of that.  I had oil leaking on my 750F outside, and I just did a top end gasket and seal replacement.  Not very difficult to do, just takes some time.  While I was in there, I inspected the cylinder walls and the pistons and determined a light hone and new rings was all it needed.  The bike now runs great and NO FRIGGIN' OIL ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!!  Very rewarding experience to have done it myself and had good results. :)

Online bryanj

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2005, 09:16:48 AM »
500 is one of the easiest hondas to do, you need a good quality 3/8 drive METRIC socket set, preferably six sided; a Decent torque wrench; an impact driver with hammer and most important the manual. Smoking on these is usually stuck rings or cracked valve stem seals but if the bike is new to you anything could have happened in its past. Best of luck. Bryan
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Mikeshonda750F

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2005, 04:47:09 PM »
Oil burning is BLUE Running too rich is BLACK and unburnt fuel/condensation will appear WHITE.

Go on, test it out.. with the bike running, put your hand over one of the carb throats and completely choke that 1 carb out, soon enough it will start spewing white "smoke" (actully not smoke) out of the tailpipe. Im suspecting you have a cylinder thats running dead.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2005, 05:08:04 PM »
That's a good point.  I did assume that all the cylinders were firing, as a dead cylinder will take a lot of pep out of the machine.  And, I expected that such a power loss would be in a trouble report.  With a 4 into 4 exhaust, the dead cylinder would emit white smoke/fuel vapor,  But, wouldn't a 4 into 2 or 4 into 1 exhaust backfire as the hot exhaust from another cylinder dumped hot gasses into the vapor charged muffler? 

You could also tell if there was a dead cylinder by head pipe temp, too.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Carl71cb500

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2005, 06:44:55 PM »
Man, thanks for all the replies everyone. I really don't think I have a dead cylinder - I think I would notice the performance if that were the case. I have a 4 into 2 exhaust system, and it smokes a little out of both sides. All my plugs fire pretty good, so I'm maybe thinking that it has something to do with the head gasket or seals, since there is a visible leak (or rather, seep) on the outside of the head gasket. ??

-Carl

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Suggestion for a slightly smoking engine
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2005, 09:05:52 PM »
Sounds like a compression check is in order.
Hot engine, all plugs removed, compression gauge in each cylinder in turn.  Use kickstart lever until the reading goes no higher. Record reading.  Do same for next cylinder and so on.  Put about 1/2 teaspoon of oil into each cylinder and repeat the copmpression test all cylinders.

Report to us your readings fro each cylinder number.

Do the deposits in your exhaust pipes feel oily? Or, dry powery?
 
The o rings in the head for the oil passages are NOT part of the head gasket.  The compression test will tell you if your head gasket is blown.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.