Topic: Why not charge fees here for sales???

[mrfish2]

Its a stupid question.  Want more taxes too?


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If you read back through you'll notice that Tews never said we SHOULD do it, he was simply seeking opinions on why it isn't done. So you think it's a stupid question? That's cool, but it doesn't excuse rudeness.

[jamesbekman]

I wasn't rude or having a #$%* attitude before that post.  Just showing the clear
Difference now 

[Gman]

All,
I have to respectfully disagree with the post count idea and share my thoughts on pay to play while I'm at it.

1) As someone already mentioned, I'd rather somebody w/parts gave the forum first shot at them, even if they are new.  I don't mind noob sellers; what cheeves me are the new (as in, that very second new) members who come looking for parts and disappear if/when they get them, especially when, as one fellow recently did, they post all over with their list of needs and expect a 'forum' price or deal. 

2) I doubt I had 100 posts in my first 3 years on the forum.  I tend to read a ton (and I actually use the search function so I don't have a bunch of questions I feel compelled to ask ), and, as for responding to posts, I'm usually either too slow on the draw and someone says what I was going to say, or, in most cases, I leave answers to those more knowledgeable than I.  So my post count is low, but I've been around for a fair while now - with my history, when I first joined should I have had to wait 1 month before getting to sell something?  2 months?  It gets sticky quickly.

3) And, for those of you still awake, these are my musings on the idea itself of fees for selling.  When something gets commercialized, there seems to come a point where the group loses a certain feeling of being by members, for members.  "Heck, if the site is making money off sales and ads and fill in the blank, then I don't need to contribute."   (not my actual sentiment)   I realize how much knowledge and enjoyment I get from the site, so I contribute when I can (and when I remember ), making me invested in the forum in all ways, which I think might be lost if it became fee-based. 

With all that said, I'm also not opposed to paying a flat or annual membership fee, if that makes it better for those that keep the site running. SOHC4 is, as my wife calls it, my 'porn' site and I plan on visiting until I have to take a pill to ride.   

Cheers,
G

[Tews19]

You're like the kid telling the teacher hey you didn't assign us homework. This site runs on ads and donations just fine.  Why don't you donate and make yourself feel better.

I have donated several times throughout my time here. I made the thread to ask a simple question. Being part of this site for a few years I have given plenty of parts away for free too. Not just the 5 dollar parts but some really hard to find early 750 stuff.

I merely brought this idea for a few reasons.
1- Some people come here to sell parts and when a member has received them it is not what was listed.... Then once the member has attempted to contact a person who did not mail off the listed item, that member decided to hide behind a computer screen and ignore any further communication. Not going to call anyone out but this has happened; not to me but to a few people I know.
 
2- Look at the donation list. It is relatively small community...

3- This site has educated me immensely and provided a love for motorcycles which is priceless.

[Tews19]

All,
I have to respectfully disagree with the post count idea and share my thoughts on pay to play while I'm at it.

1) As someone already mentioned, I'd rather somebody w/parts gave the forum first shot at them, even if they are new.  I don't mind noob sellers; what cheeves me are the new (as in, that very second new) members who come looking for parts and disappear if/when they get them, especially when, as one fellow recently did, they post all over with their list of needs and expect a 'forum' price or deal. 

2) I doubt I had 100 posts in my first 3 years on the forum.  I tend to read a ton (and I actually use the search function so I don't have a bunch of questions I feel compelled to ask ), and, as for responding to posts, I'm usually either too slow on the draw and someone says what I was going to say, or, in most cases, I leave answers to those more knowledgeable than I.  So my post count is low, but I've been around for a fair while now - with my history, when I first joined should I have had to wait 1 month before getting to sell something?  2 months?  It gets sticky quickly.

3) And, for those of you still awake, these are my musings on the idea itself of fees for selling.  When something gets commercialized, there seems to come a point where the group loses a certain feeling of being by members, for members.  "Heck, if the site is making money off sales and ads and fill in the blank, then I don't need to contribute."   (not my actual sentiment)   I realize how much knowledge and enjoyment I get from the site, so I contribute when I can (and when I remember ), making me invested in the forum in all ways, which I think might be lost if it became fee-based. 

With all that said, I'm also not opposed to paying a flat or annual membership fee, if that makes it better for those that keep the site running. SOHC4 is, as my wife calls it, my 'porn' site and I plan on visiting until I have to take a pill to ride.   

Cheers,
G

Gman- Nice write up. As stated previously, my reason for the thread was merely to gain some insight. That's all.

[Chachi]

For what it's worth -- from a member who has only been here a few years -- I wouldn't think twice about paying $5/year to be on here. This place has been invaluable to me. But I'm also all for keeping it like it is. I guess if the admins needed to do it, I'd have no problem with it. And if any are reading... thanks for the time you put into this to keep it running!

[Gman]

Gman- Nice write up. As stated previously, my reason for the thread was merely to gain some insight. That's all.

Tews - you were correct in bringing it up.  I think just having the discussion is of value, regardless the outcome.  Some members might, after reading the thread, choose to invest financially and make a contribution.  Others may come up with different possibilities for keeping the site funded and operational.  Still others may make popcorn and head for the nearest oil thread.    

Peace,
G

[Dunk]

Is there a funding problem with this site? I'd imagine annual costs are not terribly expensive regardless of how this site is run and hosted. Who owns the site? What are the costs? Is there a shortage? Is it enough that the owner cares? There is already a donations button. Perhaps if funding is a problem add a banner under the username in each post on left side mentioning "supporting member" or similar. Other forums I frequent do that which can encourage donations.

Personally I would not sell anything here if I was charged a fee, lots of smaller and lower value items I've either sold or given away for shipping cost here would have ended up in the trash. Not worth the fees and hassle. I wasn't aware of any funding or seller problem.

[DH]

You're like the kid telling the teacher hey you didn't assign us homework. This site runs on ads and donations just fine.  Why don't you donate and make yourself feel better.

If that is directed toward me, well...I donate to things I feel are a worthwhile cause, and i get a lot form this place.
Any harm in giving back? Why the wise ass remark? I tried to participate like everyone else with my .02
If you find anything I wrote offensive, there's an ignore feature you can use.

[Retro Rocket]

Its a stupid question.  Want more taxes too?


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Hmmm, thats a stupid answer, seems you still haven't understood Tews original post and just want to rant, and as long as taxes go to services that doing good for society as a whole,  "YES" I don't mind paying more taxes...

[flatlander]

on another forum that i'm a member of, posts in the "for sale" section can only be made by what's called "contributing members".
you can become a "contributing member" by making a donation to the site. the amount can freely be chosen by the member, so can be anything from 1.- to a few billions. anyone can become a contributing member no matter if they want to sell stuff or not. most long standing members just donate a bit every year because they find the forum valuable to themselves and it makes sense to contribute towards running costs. that site has no advertising however. on here i see some ads that i assume are paid, so maybe there's no additional money needed to keep the site up and running.

i can't see any harm in applying a similar principle here as it wouldn't bust anyone's finances to give a dollar (or more) out of their sales. on the other hand, if there's no problem and it can stay free - that's also fine.

side note: "the internet is/should be free" - that's a fallacy. without the necessary infrastructure and people building and maintaining to software there would be no internet. without people building and running websites such as this, there would be no content on the internet. sorry but nothing in life is free.

[70CB750]

Took me a while to find the donations button when I joined - I am just slow

Maybe point it to new members, kinda cheap to ask for donations from people who just joined.

[ekpent]

  Not going to enter the nit picky fray but would be nice if an administrator or somebody in the know could shed some light on the financial health of this website. Most of us non tech savvy morons (me ) do not have a clue how this thing works or what charges are associated with its running.  Guess I will toddle over and make a donation now as it has been quite awhile and this is an entertaining site.
   If nothing else Nick reminded us to give back a tad and share if we like this site. One for all and all for one and that kind of corny stuff 

[MikeKato]

I think Tews has a good point that it's kinda frustrating to see the hit-n-split guys that show up to make a quick buck then vanish into the abyss. I've seen guys that appreciate the bikes,carefully remove parts to share,and guys that post pics of their gas saw chop-shop,get rich quick,operations.

I've bought a lot of things from members on this site and sold a few things to people that were looking under parts wanted. I'm a narrow-eyed nitwit that gave up on trying to learn how to post pics to the site or I would have sold more.

I've donated a few times to the forum as penance for the mind pollution I post. I think it would be a good idea to have a counter under your stats showing how many times you've donated $5 or more to the site.

I've also learned a lot from this site. Compared to other web sites it often seems statistically impossible to have so many good people in such a small place.

Best of Luck!

[Dunk]

Its a stupid question.  Want more taxes too?


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Hmmm, thats a stupid answer, seems you still haven't understood Tews original post and just want to rant, and as long as taxes go to services that doing good for society as a whole,  "YES" I don't mind paying more taxes...

Taxes are very different from a donation or fee for service provided. The latter two are voluntary either out of the kindness of your heart or to receive a product or service that provides value. Taxes are at gunpoint with the threat of violence, a way for people to steal from others while outsourcing the actual violent theft part of it. If you want to pay taxes then go ahead but don't force me to do so at gunpoint.

[jamesbekman]

I see no problem with them coming here to sell their parts.  Its not like you are being forced to buy them.  Plus you get the chance to buy it 9 times out of 10 at a lower price than it would be listed on ebay with less potential buyers.  I belong to lots of sites like this, one since 1996 and its been imensesly helpful to myself as well.  They dont charge.  This is basically how the internet is set up...  Its why there is a donation button.  If you have been helped greatly you can donate and or keep the knowledge going on the site.  I know people get sick and tired of answering easy questions when you can just open a manual up and see what to do, but you can also contribute to the cause by being that guy to take the time to answer the question when others roll their eyes.  There are lots of ways to keep this site going and information flowing and parts being available.  Like its been stated lots of guys give stuff away for free, or for a lot less than if they posted on ebay.  I understand that people associate money with self worth but its not expensive to run a site like this which is why there are a ton of sites like this and there is a lot more to this site than a monetary value.

Cheers,

James

[calj737]

Tews - whether it's a good idea or not, regulated or recommended, at least you've made many of us aware that donations are the least we can do. Notwithstanding some cranky answers and retorts, it's a worthwhile notion and should at least make those of use who benefit immensely from this site, consider nudging some beer or coffee money into the kitty now and again.

You're a top bloke, Tews for thinking about the community over yourself. Just leave me off the next group CHAT at 11:00PM, huh? 

[70CB750]

This thread sure brought some fresh names into the Donation column; thanks for that Tews 

[calj737]

This thread sure brought some fresh names into the Donation column; thanks for that Tews 

+1 !

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

This thread sure brought some fresh names into the Donation column; thanks for that Tews 

+1 !

That's a great plus, Tews! Nicely done.

[Tews19]

Tews - whether it's a good idea or not, regulated or recommended, at least you've made many of us aware that donations are the least we can do. Notwithstanding some cranky answers and retorts, it's a worthwhile notion and should at least make those of use who benefit immensely from this site, consider nudging some beer or coffee money into the kitty now and again.

You're a top bloke, Tews for thinking about the community over yourself. Just leave me off the next group CHAT at 11:00PM, huh? 

Hey that group text was Matt's doing! Sorry about that and hope all is well with your mom in FL!

[Stev-o]

I know where Tews is going with this, guys sign up just to sell a bike or parts.  I dont like it either.  I buy plenty of parts on here and prefer to do so from well respected members.

One recent newby had a K0 for sale, didnt list an asking price and never responded when asked how much.
Do you really want to buy from that guy?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148450.0.html

[knochgoon24]

I'm a moderator ("DSM Wiseman") on DSMTuners.com. I use the same screen name there.

Discussions:384,136
Posts:4,363,970
Members:128,645

That forum is much larger, much more active, and caters to a much younger crowd. As the average age of a DSM owner fell with the price of the cars, more rules were implemented in an attempt to better manage fraud.

There are a few features that worked well there. I know that the site owner had done a lot of vBulletin coding on his own to implement some of the features.
1. They require 30 posts/30 days before someone can post in the classifieds. This was to help prevent people from getting scammed, but people still got scammed. It created a false sense of security.
2. They implemented an "iTrader" rating system. The ratings for 99% of people are good, but there are a few with poor ratings. They are also the same people that would get mad about a comment and leave the site for 6 months before crawling back. They usually found themselves banned soon enough. This also created a false sense of security. More complicated scammers would legitimately sell a few low priced parts to get a decent rating, and then scam a high priced item and walk with the cash.
3. It was always possible to donate to the site, but it never covered the costs (LOADS of bandwidth). So the owner started a tiered sponsorship system. For $20/yr, one could buy access to a private forum that was a little more personal. That $20 also got you a larger inbox and removed the search feature's time limit. He also made a "freelancer" level between the $20 "supporter" and the "site sponsor" level. This comes with some of the features of a site sponsor (visibility). This cleared up the grey area between general user and someone with a full-fledged business. When general users started to sell enough to get noticed by the site staff, we'd have a vote, and contact the user to let them know that they needed to upgrade accounts. The site owner handled all notifications form freelancer to site sponsor. This system actually works quite well, except for the "auto-renew" through Paypal.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I know where Tews is going with this, guys sign up just to sell a bike or parts.  I dont like it either.  I buy plenty of parts on here and prefer to do so from well respected members.

One recent newby had a K0 for sale, didnt list an asking price and never responded when asked how much.
Do you really want to buy from that guy?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148450.0.html

That seller is pretty awful in terms of communication.

[Tews19]

I know where Tews is going with this, guys sign up just to sell a bike or parts.  I dont like it either.  I buy plenty of parts on here and prefer to do so from well respected members.

One recent newby had a K0 for sale, didnt list an asking price and never responded when asked how much.
Do you really want to buy from that guy?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148450.0.html

That may have played a role in the thread but in overall perspective I simply brought it up because this site is GREAT! The members here are second to none. The education the site and members provide continue to be the most invaluable tool known to CB'ers. I do not want the site to have any reasons to possibly shut down in the future. Thats all.