Topic: CB550 Track Bike Goes Racing

[Yamahawk]

I have used Swain Tech many times but Charlie's suggestion is good too. You can smooth the thrust surfaces on the skirts with some 400/600 wet dry paper, bead blast and than coat. As Charlie stated...it will build up the surface and tighten up skirt to bore a bit. Nice low friction surface. If you Nikasil the bores the friction is reduced further and your bores will really never wear out.....it is very hard stuff.

Mike,
  I know a fellow who road races a Honda CR500, and it is a monster... usually, they are very hard on pistons, and with the radical porting he runs, and the high end expansion chamber, the piston has a very short life. But with the Line2Line coating, and the nikasil bore, he rarely has to hone at all. The pistons have been running at least 8 track days and races, before he pulls them and sends them in to be recoated. AT $35 per piston, it is very economical instead of a $200 Wiseco every race. He isn't easy on the motor either, as he races against built SV650's and can beat them.  So, it is a good thing to check out! 4 stroke motors will last an extremely long time racing with this coating.
Charlie

[MRieck]

I have used Swain Tech many times but Charlie's suggestion is good too. You can smooth the thrust surfaces on the skirts with some 400/600 wet dry paper, bead blast and than coat. As Charlie stated...it will build up the surface and tighten up skirt to bore a bit. Nice low friction surface. If you Nikasil the bores the friction is reduced further and your bores will really never wear out.....it is very hard stuff.

Mike,
  I know a fellow who road races a Honda CR500, and it is a monster... usually, they are very hard on pistons, and with the radical porting he runs, and the high end expansion chamber, the piston has a very short life. But with the Line2Line coating, and the nikasil bore, he rarely has to hone at all. The pistons have been running at least 8 track days and races, before he pulls them and sends them in to be recoated. AT $35 per piston, it is very economical instead of a $200 Wiseco every race. He isn't easy on the motor either, as he races against built SV650's and can beat them.  So, it is a good thing to check out! 4 stroke motors will last an extremely long time racing with this coating.
Charlie

I believe you Charlie. Seriously....I know what you are saying.

[turboguzzi]

after seeing the sides of the pistons too, i tend to believe your engine is running too hot. IMHO, thats a slightly overhated piston making metal to metal contact. i just opened my 500/4 racer and after too seasons it's looking perfect. ditto for my 750 kawi, 5 seasons on same pistons and they show nothing like that wear, both run without filters.   
one explanation could be the ignition advance, not so good that you dont know what max advance you are running, just buy a timing gun and print a timing wheel off the internet . with good squish built in, both my bikes run on 28. running them on 36 degs (if it's true) stresses the engine big time. exactly the same problem riccardo had IMHO, his pistons showed exactly the same problems.
if the running temp is right, the underisde of the pistons should be squeaky clean. if you see some discolored area, it's running too hot.

[Rocketman]

Time to get my Honda motor ready for the upcoming racing season.  The head is with Mr. Rieck for refurbishing.  Seems my valves were trying to occupy the same space at the same time and all needed replaced.    Going with a different cam and Suzuki ignition with rev limiter to try and prevent it from occurring again.  Hoping with more accurate timing and air filters the damage to the head and pistons can be prevented this season.  Split the cases, here are some pictures.   This is the first time the rods have been off the crankshaft since I built the motor 2 seasons/10 races ago.  Checked the crank and rod bearings and all are around .002" clearance.  Still new to four stroke engines so I asked a friend who has been racing since the 70’s to take a look. He believes the rod bearings were too tight. That explains the dark mottled color. Also sees metal in the crank bearings. Good news no damage to the crank is apparent. Measured the rod journals and based on the chart in the Honda manual I was one to two sizes too small!  I think when I built the motor I replaced the old bearings with the same size new ones. Not sure I measured at the time. Think I got lucky not to spin a bearing or sieze one.

Here are a couple pictures:



Over view of the crankshaft bearings



Close up of upper crank bearing



Close up of lower crank bearing



Close up of rod bearing



Lower case with Plastigage on bearings, .002 clearance.  Standard value is .00079 to .00181, service limit is .0031.



Rods with Plastigage on bearings, .002 clearance.  Standard value also .00079 to .00181, service limit is .0031.

Also measured the rod side clearance and found three were .004+ and one was .007+.  Standard value is .0047 to .0106, service limit is .0138.  So well within the standard value.   

[Rocketman]

Two race weekends are in the books.  Added Gingerman to the schedule to shake down my new motor.  Changes from last year include refurbishing the head, new cam, and close ratio first and fifth gears.  The head work was needed as my valves were touching each other and corrosion damage.  The new cam has less over lap and I'm running some ethanol free gas with Marvel Mystery Oil through the engine after each race weekend.  Big thanks to Mike Rieck for saving my head.

Had never been to Gingerman and found it a challenge to learn.  Very flat and featureless.  The Honda was running well and like the new CR gears in the transmission.  Managed to get down to halfway decent lap times by race time Saturday and finished 4th in class.  Had a moment when a racer in another class came by and nearly took out my front wheel.  Was running 3rd at the time, but lost a position recovering.  Did not race on Sunday as I needed to get home and prepare my Suzuki for Road America.  The replated cylinders had only arrived just before leaving for Gingerman.

Road America is one of my favorite circuits.  You can really haul the mail on 3 different straights!  My competition was Mark Morrow and Ryan Hunt on RD400's set up like TZ's.  Was please to discover I had a little top end on both of them.  Unfortunately my front brake continues to be an issue.  Can't seem to make it work without fading badly.  Was gridded on the last row with a couple classes in front of Formula 500.  Got a great start Saturday and shot up the inside to take 2nd into turn one.  A lap or so later Morrow passed me and then Hunt to take first.  Finished in 3rd.  The weather was iffy on Sunday which thinned the field.  Got another good start Sunday and then it nearly went to #$%*, a racer in the middle of the grid had stalled his bike!  Rolled out of the throttle, dodged to the right, and then held 2nd place to the race finish.  Hunt was a DNS. 

Have 3 weeks before Mid-Ohio to try and get the Suzuki GSX ignition working.  So far it is not cooperating. 

A couple pictures from RA.



Trying to keep my pit crew in line!



Leading Mark Morrow's RD400 over start/finish at Road America.  Wish it was the last lap!

[slikwilli420]

Looking good out there Martin! What a great weekend. RA is definitely hard on bikes, but the fun factor is through the roof!

[bwaller]

How do you like the 12620 Martin?

[Rocketman]

Please with the new cam.  Performance wise I can not tell any difference to the Web cam I was running.  Looking forward to getting on the dyno to see what kind of HP I am making. 

[MRieck]

Please with the new cam.  Performance wise I can not tell any difference to the Web cam I was running.  Looking forward to getting on the dyno to see what kind of HP I am making.

At least you won't be tagging valves into each other. Sorting that GSXR ignition etc is important.

[Rocketman]

Mid-Ohio Vintage Days was a success in many ways.  We were blessed with sunny days, cool nights, and relatively low humidity.  I had made a number of changes to my CB550 and was anxious to try them out.  My front brake has been less than effective even with the latest Ferodo compound and arcing the shoes.  Among the list of tips from Vintage Brakes https://www.vintagebrake.com/was to replace the expanded metal plate covering the vents as they are 15% to 23% open air with stainless steel screen which is 50% to 60% open air.  Also in the list was to keep the angle of the brake cable to brake arm less than 90 degrees with the caution that angles approaching 90 degrees will result in decreased performance.  Checked my cable/arm angle and found it at 90 degrees.  Made new shorter backing plate anchors which rotated the backing plate and reduced the angle to 65 degrees.  Also changed out the vent covers to stainless screen.  Out on the track the cable/arm angle change transformed the front brake.  After the initial bite the friction level seems to increase.  I can now consider passing in the braking zone!   



The GSX ignition mod pioneered by Turboguzzi work flawlessly.  Having a rev limiter took a bit of getting used to.  The wind died down Sunday and I occasionally hit the limiter in 5th gear at the end of the long straight.  Will need to take a tooth or so off the rear sprocket next year.  Also installed a new catch can with an inlet and exit.  My old catch bottle with a hose in to it was not keeping the inner fender dry which was not confidence inspiring.  The new catch can worked with not a drop of oil to be seen except in the sight tube.  I'll measure the oil, but looks like about 250cc was blown out over the 3 days of practice and racing. 



Entered the Formula 500 and Vintage 3 classes.  It was the usual suspects with Scott McKenzie on his CB550 and Mark Morrow on a RD400 to keep me honest.  Vintage 3 was first and we were gridded behind the bigger Vintage 5 bikes.  Got an OK start on Saturday and was 5th or 6th into the keyhole.  Morrow got a better start and by the end of lap one was out front.  I worked my way up to 2nd overall.  McKenzie was stuck behind a couple of the bigger bikes and by the time he made it to 3rd Morrow and I had gapped him.  Could not chase down Morrow and finished 2nd in class and 2nd overall.  Sunday was similar, but I got the best start and found my self in 3rd at the keyhole behind two Vintage 5 bikes.  Passed a CBX on the brakes at the end of the back straight and then the leader before we returned to start/finish.  Led laps 2 through 4 and was starting to think about spraying Champaign when Morrow passed me in the chicane before the keyhole.  Could not get close enough to try for a pass and finished 2nd in class and 2nd overall.  It was quite a scrum behind me with Morrow and two Vintage 5 bikes in tow.  Apologies for the quality of the first picture.





Formula 500 on Saturday was a two man race between me and McKenzie.  After finishing 3rd in Vintage 3 he was in a take no prisoners mood.  When the start flag flew he had his head down and reeled off a string of 1:50 laps.  I slowly drifted back to finish 2nd in class and 2nd overall.  Expecting a similar performance on Sunday I had my race face on and tried to stay with him.  My best shot came at the end of the long straight on lap one.  I had top end and out braked him, but came up just short and could not make the pass.  Stayed much closer, but same result, 2nd in class and 2nd overall.  All in all a very successful weekend.

On a sad note one of the competitors in Sundays race passed away.  McKenzie had just lapped him prior the checkered flag.  After I took the flag a waving yellow was displayed in turn one where I saw a bike laying on its side.  Never did see the rider.  It is believed he had a heart attack during the race as he was slumped on the bike crossing the finish line.  My condolences to Mike Wells' family.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/racer-mike-wells-dies-at-ama-vintage-motorcycle-days-at-mid-ohio-sports-car-course/

[turboguzzi]

congrats, sounds like a fun time, but pics or it didnt happen

did you ever got aroudn to dyno the bike after last updates?

cheers

TG

[Rocketman]

Have not had it on the dyno yet.  From the performance I'm guessing it is making a couple more HP, but you never know.  Have a friend who purchased a Dynojet dyno, but needs to add some cooling fans to run air cooled motors on it.

[bwaller]

Sorry to hear of Mike Wells. Talk about passing while doing something you love, man.

Glad you had a good outing. Morrow does a lot of racing miles and those RD's are well developed. Scotty doesn't get out much anymore, but he loves Mid Ohio.

Good news about that front brake. Michael Morse is the man on all things "brake", glad he helped you save the front drum.

[Rocketman]

Found some video of Saturday's race at Road America.  It was taken by Mark Morrow on his RD400 based racer.  The race starts at 2:10.  You can see Ryan Hunt and I scoot up the right side and pass many of the larger bikes gridded in front of the Formula 500 class.  Morrow catches me at 3:45 and we go back and forth for the next lap.  Ultimately he passes me for good and then catches Hunt for the lead.

[url][https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26jyecFwHkUurl]

[Rocketman]

Wrapped up the season with the VRRA Mosport race and AHRMA Barber race.  Had a good weekend enjoying Canadian hospitality.  They are a fun group and this has become one of my favorite places to race.  Finished 3rd in the Saturday heats and was looking for more on Sunday.  The final was 10 laps and I was again laying in 3rd place on lap 8 when the motor died.  My first thought was out of gas, but since it just suddenly quit, I concluded it was electrical.  Pulled the plugs and no spark.  Checked the battery voltage and it was 12.6 volts which is low for an AGM unit.  Back in the shop with a fresh battery I again had spark, so it was either the low battery or some other electrical issue.  Gave the wiring a good looking over and found nothing.  While researching batteries I did find that AGM batteries require a Battery Tender Plus, not the regular Battery Tender I was using.  Seems the Plus charges AGM batteries to higher voltage.  The Battery Tender would only charge to 12.9 while the plus takes it to 13.1.  Would not seem to be a big difference.  Since I have both models the Plus went to Barber with me.

Practice and the races at Barber went well.  Entered both Formula 750 and Formula 500.  Took a pair of 5th places finishes in F750 behind a couple of 750's and two 500's.  In F500 finished 3rd on Saturday and 4th on Sunday.  Saturday was a lonely race, Sunday made up for it.  I spent the second half of the race passing and getting repassed by Alex McLean.  While this was going on we were working our way through the "faster" bikes from waves 1 and 2.  Alex managed to get past a couple bikes cleaner than I did and just could not get back past him.  Lowering my best time 2 seconds from last year was a bonus.  I kept the battery topped up all weekend on the Tender Plus and had zero issues.  Looking at using an Anti-Gravity battery next year.  Beside the weight savings, they recharge faster, and hold their voltage longer. 

So now it is time for a post season tear down and inspection.  Have a couple small changes I want to make which will keep me occupied during the winter layoff.  Thanks to everyone who posts to this forum.  I check it daily and look forward to reading about everyone's builds and adventures.  Keep up the good work!

[RAFster122s]

Congrats on the wrap up and thanks for pointing out the difference on the Battery Tender and Plus model. I had one fail killing my AGM Gel cell battery before I discovered it flashing. Or, the Gel battery killed the Battery Tender Plus. Is Alex one of the other forum members, if so, his I D would be helpful for me to connect the Alex to whom you refer. I am awful with names but other trivial mechanical, scientific and numbers and things like that are easy for me to remember. Guess I am wired differently than those whom can recall names and learn them with ease.
Shorai has a better rep than AntiGravity from what I have read.
David

[scottly]

While researching batteries I did find that AGM batteries require a Battery Tender Plus, not the regular Battery Tender I was using.  Seems the Plus charges AGM batteries to higher voltage.  The Battery Tender would only charge to 12.9 while the plus takes it to 13.1.

An AGM battery requires more like 13.8 volts to charge fully, and even then it will take a long time to reach a full charge; for rapid charging, the charger should be able to provide up to 14.4 volts. Those Battery Tenders are "maintenance chargers", not proper chargers.
Lithium batteries require an even more sophisticated charger than AGM. The Shorai is intended to be a "starting" battery, capable of very high currents for very short durations of time, not for low current drains over a longer period of time, such as encountered in a total loss ignition system or RC toy airplane. (that last bit is for Lloyd ) 

[turboguzzi]

hi rocket. a bit odd because i seem to remember the gsxr box will still fire with just 12.0.... maybe check what's the actual V at the box +, maybe you are dropping due to some resistance on the way.

[Rocketman]

Thanks for the tips and suggestions on batteries and voltage.  Continuing to dive into this topic and trying not to go down the proverbial rabbit hole.  Still not certain what caused the loss of spark at Mosport.  Will follow up on your suggestion TG and see what the voltage is at the box.  I hate electrical issues, much easier to (although sometimes much more expensive) to fix mechanical failures. 

Pretty sure Alex Mclean is not a forum member.  He has raced a Manx Norton in the past with much success.  Ran several classes at Barber and was on a Honda in Formula 500.

[scottly]

Rocketman, how long, in time, are your races? This would be the time from when the ignition is switched on, to the time it is switched off. Any idea what current your ignition system draws? I tested a stock points system with stock coils and measured 2.5 amps at 1000 RPM, and 1.5 amps at 8000 RPM.
I also tested a Shorai battery, and with a 2.1+ amp load, it took 30 minutes to drop from an initial no-load 14.05V to 12.875V, well above the point where the voltage takes a crash-and-burn dive.

[RAFster122s]

For best life on Lithium Polymer cells it is 3.0 or 3.2V per cell in series. Lithium Iron Oxide Life or LiFeO4 cells can go lower without killing them or irreparably damaging them. But go with Shorai's recommendations and maybe call and talk to their tech support folks to get their input.
A good load test with battery voltage under load should give you an idea of the load and where the battery is on the discharge curve.
Shorai has a very good charger they sell and I do not know if it is a fast charger or if two batteries on hand would be recommended.
David

[slikwilli420]

Martin and I talked about the Antigravity battery I use, which is the 8 cell. That battery is rated at 9Ah. Running my Dyna S (no clue what his ignition draws) I was told it would draw about 6-8 amps per hour, so I would get over an hour of run time on my battery before I used it up and needed to start worrying. Our races are typically (from ignition on to ignition off) 25 min or so. Obviously that depends on the track, where some races can be as little as 15 min all in (Little Tally) to over twice that (Road America). My battery charges quickly with the correct charger between sessions and I have not had any reason to believe it wont keep doing so for the foreseeable future.

[turboguzzi]

rocket, i run a humble nicad pack with just 3.2 a/h and have no problem doing races which easily take +40 minutes from turning on ign to to warm up motor and enter track till switching off. i dont even care to recharge between two 20 mins qualifiers. Going from memory here but gsxr igntion is in the 1 amp range, so no issues. yes, of course im giving up a few hundred grams in weight to a high tech battery but this one costs 20$ or so, can be recharged with a dumb charger. my four race bikes run this system, never been let down in 11 years by lack of juice... 

[bwaller]

scottly is correct about a lot of those batteries, called "starting batteries". One of the manufacturers recommended something other than that type for total loss use. That said, obviously some are using them with success.

I tested current draw with my Dyna 2K system once I discovered it to be a problem, then the replacement Suzuki ignition TG  recommended I try. I cannot find those notes now but obviously the Dyna had issues and was hungry for battery power.

I really still like Lithium. Yes more money but it's become second nature managing and a bonus they charge quickly. Typically from start up to shut down this year was 35 mins. Marty, we ran longer sessions this year as a trial, you'd have noticed that at Mosport compared to last season. Mosport would probably have been 40 mins runtime??

[scottly]

I really like the Lithium-Iron batteries as well. My current favorite is the Shorai. The key to using them in a total-loss situation is the depth of discharge; if discharged too deeply, the voltage suddenly drops to an unusable level, just like NiCad, but while NiCad loves this, it can reduce the life of an LiFe. For longest life, the battery should be sized so that it isn't discharged to the crash-and-burn point before recharging, which is why I asked about the ignition system draw and the duration of the race. I think the 14AHr Shorai is up to the task of what's been described in terms of load and time. It's also cheaper than the Antigravity.