Topic: Reign of the V-twins

[CBGhia]

Fair enough mate, my friend Dobbo has had a Volksy Karman Ghia since the late 1970's, which he bought from the original owner. He's a "ditherer", and after 36 years and at least two paint jobs, he's no closer to having it back on the road then he was 20 years ago.

In that time he bought a Mazda 13B Rotary engine and conversion kit, then a Corvair engine, both of which he installed and ran, but never drove. It's now got it's original engine in it, which is a shame, with the Corvair engine, it would have been a weapon. Cheers, Terry.

With the corvair engine, he would have had to flip the ring and pinion because the rotate backward from the VW motor. 
I have a Ghia.  Bought it in 98.  Runs and drives, though I need to get some new tires for it very soon. 

[eigenvector]

"Most of what people think is wrong with Harley's is incorrect. Either silly rumors they heard 30-40 years ago or just stuff that has been said since then and people just regurgitate it for fun. I've heard some real doozies and usually just let people sound like idiots on bike forums."

I think that stems from when Harley was owned briefly by AMF and they swapped over to metric engines. But then again, I could be repeating an Internet rumor.

That Evo motor also wrecked their image, doesn't matter that it was sorted out eventually.  So far as I know the Evo motor is rock solid - just not the first gen.

[754]

I worked on HD engines in the eighties and know of no metric ones?  ?
 But Sporty rear drum brakes  had metric bearings and I believe axle size too.
 I was not aware of early evolution issues?   Except for cam bearing and breather.. Far less grief than some issues that plague the TC motors..

[eigenvector]

That was the scuttlebutt - of course I don't know first hand myself.  Harley seemed to have sorted it out soon enough - it may have simply been sour grapes from the guys who cut their teeth on shovelheads and the like.  But that's all it takes

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I've never heard anything bad about Evo engines, except that they last about twice as long as shovels, which probably pissed off the Harley repair shops..........

[BPellerine]

having been around when it was not all that common to see Harleys,and see the Japanese bikes all but stop everyone in their tracks and take notice back in the day without really knowing it was happening till I read that the big three british makers were stopping production.and then to see Harley influence the industry to the point where Honda made a "chopper" the fury,I would not have predicted that,my friends used many insulting names for Harleys and most v twins without ever driving one,they are not the bike they were made out to be,we did not know how to maintain them for the most part.I am not loyal to any one brand of bike but it is hard to dismiss a maker who has been around so long making v twins or paint mixers as my buddy called them.bill

[Desert-SOHC]

Having owned Harley for most of my life I can say that the "rumors" that are repeated are mostly garbage. My panhead was a PITA and needed constant attention to be kept in good running condition but was pretty reliable for it old tech. My 89 FLHS EVO was an absolute joy to own. It never did anything wrong and was easy to work on and parts are everywhere and will be pretty much forever. I sold it with 93,000+ miles on it with no major repairs. My 2 Road Kings and 3 Ultra's Twin Cams were pretty much the same as the EVO with no complaints. The Harley bagger is the ultimate "road couch" for going long distance, with there laid back riding position, and sitting down in the bike seating it is very comfy for doing LOTSA miles. As for the "metric" touring machines I'm limited to 2 Goldwings and an early Kawa Voyager 1200 XII, while they were great bikes, fast, handled well, and reliable, they were nowhere near as comfy as the HD.

Harley has done a VERY good job of marketing themselves and that's why the masses think that they have to own one to be cool. When in fact they are just zip-code riders and aren't really riders. Out of all the people I know that have HD's.....about 5% really get out and ride them the rest seem to be happy going under 3,000 miles a year and think that they are bikers.....LOL. I average 10,000+ miles a year on my bikes and way back when it was closer to 40,000+ a year.

Just my take.....as long as you have the nuts to ride on 2 wheels.........your good with me! 

[eigenvector]

I worked on HD engines in the eighties and know of no metric ones?  ?
 But Sporty rear drum brakes  had metric bearings and I believe axle size too.
 I was not aware of early evolution issues?   Except for cam bearing and breather.. Far less grief than some issues that plague the TC motors..

I believe it was a host of case and block issues.  Square corners cracking, holes too close to the edges, if I'm not mistaken they used helicoil inserts at the factory for certain mount points.

Same problem every manufacture deals with when launching a new product line

[754]

What is there a problem with using Helicoils?  Still uses them on their chainsaw. Cylinders,  they hold up well.
 Don't recall seeing many  helicoils in HD motors, except shovel head exhaust bolts.. They should have used them at the factory..or a stud..
 See a lot of heli coils in CB750 heads.

[Terry in Australia]

Having owned Harley for most of my life I can say that the "rumors" that are repeated are mostly garbage. My panhead was a PITA and needed constant attention to be kept in good running condition but was pretty reliable for it old tech. My 89 FLHS EVO was an absolute joy to own. It never did anything wrong and was easy to work on and parts are everywhere and will be pretty much forever. I sold it with 93,000+ miles on it with no major repairs. My 2 Road Kings and 3 Ultra's Twin Cams were pretty much the same as the EVO with no complaints. The Harley bagger is the ultimate "road couch" for going long distance, with there laid back riding position, and sitting down in the bike seating it is very comfy for doing LOTSA miles. As for the "metric" touring machines I'm limited to 2 Goldwings and an early Kawa Voyager 1200 XII, while they were great bikes, fast, handled well, and reliable, they were nowhere near as comfy as the HD.

Harley has done a VERY good job of marketing themselves and that's why the masses think that they have to own one to be cool. When in fact they are just zip-code riders and aren't really riders. Out of all the people I know that have HD's.....about 5% really get out and ride them the rest seem to be happy going under 3,000 miles a year and think that they are bikers.....LOL. I average 10,000+ miles a year on my bikes and way back when it was closer to 40,000+ a year.

Just my take.....as long as you have the nuts to ride on 2 wheels.........your good with me! 

Thanks for posting mate, it's always good to hear from someone who actually knows what he's talking about, as opposed to the internet "Harley-phobes" out there............

[bear]

What is there a problem with using Helicoils? 
 See a lot of heli coils in CB750 heads.

Not just the heads.
There's no way I would run a new set of cases without inserting helicoils through it.
Stripped or stretched case threads are the primary cause of head/base gasket failure for us.
That old alloy ain't in it's prime anymore and we tend to remove a fair bit of it for our application.

Cheers,
Brian

[Terry in Australia]

That's true Brian, and I can remember my cuz had every size helicoil kit in his shop (he was a Suzuki dealer, but he fixed just as many Honda's there) back in the 1970's and 80's, back then they were the only way you could save the threads in anything made out of aluminium, timeserts, keenserts etc, were years away, so if it wasn't for helicoils, there'd be a lot less bikes on the road. Cheers, Terry.

[Bailgang]

During our trip to Tennessee a few weeks ago I would estimate that 80% of the bikes my wife and I saw on the road were V-twin powered and the vast majority of those we HD's. It's no doubt HD has done a stellar job with their marketing, I've seen 2 HD "shops" so far where there wasn't a bike to be seen in the showroom because they sold nothing but HD related clothing and accessories but regardless of their marketing campaign HD still must be producing bikes of reasonable quality and dependability in order to be selling so many. There does seem to be a love affair with the V-twin here in the US and I do wish there was more diversity but that's the way it is here. Are they a better bike? Well that all depends on what your definition of better is and the V-twins obviously suits the needs of the majority of riders here. I myself have no desire to own a V-twin of any make in fact I'm kicking the idea around of selling my 83 Gold Wing and looking at maybe an ST1100 or 1300, yeah I know I'm a glutton for punishment wanting a bike with the complexity of a V-4 but a sport touring bike like the ST is what would suit me. That doesn't mean I'd never ever want an HD or any other V-twin, I just have no desire for one at the moment.

[eigenvector]

My experience with bikes is that they're all pretty much the same in the end.  They have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.  I'm not a fan of cruisers or baggers or black and chrome, but if the bikes were junk they would have been tossed out a long time ago.  That so many people ride them says they aren't.
I've never viewed any of my bikes as a 'lifestyle', just an excellent mode of transportation.

[Killer Canary]

Terry, you should live here fora few years and see what the vast majority of harley OWNERS are truly like. Note Frank, my use of the word majority instead of all, and I know, crotch rockets, crotch rockets, crotch rockets, but I haven't seen or heard one of those in months.
Terry, it's not the machines, it's the people.
Can't you get that?

[BPellerine]

as for the hd dealer showrooms they look like a boutique acc store with a few bikes in strategic positions,you really have to look for the parts counter at the ones in my area.I have a sportster and love riding it but will never buy into all of the clothing ,acc that I see in the stores,if someone does not know what I am riding that is good with me,same with any bike I have owned.billp

[Killer Canary]

If all  owner's were like you, there wouldn't BE any harley bashing threads.
It's not the machinery, it's the people.

[Desert-SOHC]

The HD's are reliable as long as you do the recommended PM and checks. I had a 2003 Ultra come in the shop with a cutting out problem and a previous shop had worked on it and could not fix the problem. I went through the electrics and redid some grounds and replaced a few questionable relays only to make it not run at all. After PCM diags it turned out to be a bad crank sensor and after it was replaced it was fine. I was in dis belief at the odometer reading thinking that it had a bad display. After talking to the customer, who bought it with 53,000 or so miles on it those were real miles and the bike showed it well.    Yes that 179,265 on the original engine. It sounded tired and he was planning on an HD replacement engine for this winter.



The main reason that real riders use HD's is the availability of parts, you can still walk into an HD dealer and buy almost any part for a 30 year old bike brand new and if they don't make it the aftermarket does. When I rebuilt the forks on the 89 I bought brand new tubes from HD, and they were $20.00 cheaper than the aftermarket ones. The guys I know don't sell there bikes every 3-5 years and tend to keep them forever like we do and the older it is the better they like it and they don't care what it says on the tank.

I remember when I did the topend on my sandcast and had a hard time finding parts for it and Honda was no help at all. That was a long time ago and the internet wasn't a factor then, but then it was only 16 years old then.

[72 yellow]

My experience with H-D was in the AMF era.  My 73 XLH Sportster was no real problem, just 1 recall.  The 77 FXE Superglide was the opposite.  Terrible build quality.  Dealer only added to the problems. Only kept it 1 year.  But now looking to add a 02-03 Sportster Roadster to the stable.

[754]

Canary,  I know it's the people that piss everybody off..
 ********HOWEVER *******

Having sat on both sides of the fence,  I give blame to BOTH sides Equally....

Sitting around with The Metric crowd hearing them badmouth H-D.......doesnt taste any better to me, than hearing H-D riders badmouthing metrics..

But another point I should make, and this is probably. The BIG ROOT CAUSE......is your personal attitude.
If you project disdain, or fear of the other side....... Like a dog..they often pick up on that..... Often leading to even more unpleasant. Encounter than if you had a neutral stance or attitude....... Some people should think about this.

[754]

Maybe your town has a high #$%* quotient..

 Most HD riders at least out on the road are now pretty good around vintage Honda fours.

 Was at a Gas station in Wendover in 07,  and the guys from Winnipeg HD were looking at my 836 with the long swingarm and Webers, and we're quite surprised that I rode it out there... A few of tyemvthought that was pretty cool.

[ofreen]

But another point I should make, and this is probably. The BIG ROOT CAUSE......is your personal attitude.
If you project disdain, or fear of the other side....... Like a dog..they often pick up on that..... Often leading to even more unpleasant. Encounter than if you had a neutral stance or attitude....... Some people should think about this.

This is it in a nutshell, Frank.  I am on the road a fair amount and have nothing but friendly encounters.  And much of that time on the road I am on the CBR, on what you think would be a despised rice rocket.

[Killer Canary]

on what you think would be a despised rice rocket.

What makes a rice rocket more despicable than any other bike?

[BPellerine]

the people that call them rice rockets,not always a hd rider!bill

[ofreen]

on what you think would be a despised rice rocket.

What makes a rice rocket more despicable than any other bike?

The stereotype is that Harley riders hate "rice rockets" and dismiss their riders. No doubt there are some like that, but that hasn't been my experience.