Author Topic: MessnerMoto - CB750 f2 - Some Parts are now available from build!!  (Read 84459 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline callmejarob

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 116
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2015, 11:17:15 AM »
Simply amazing

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

  • Speak up, Whipper-Snapper! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,731
  • SOHC/4 Member #1235
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2015, 12:45:08 PM »
How do you reinforce the form enough to pound aluminum over it?
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2015, 12:58:18 PM »
Simply amazing

Thx;)

How do you reinforce the form enough to pound aluminum over it?

It is not made for pounding ;) It is made to be guideline for metal shaping. I sure you are familiar with the process. Start with flat sheet, pound it with hammer against send bag, check against wooden bucket. Then repeat 1000 times :). Planishing hammer will be the only automatic tool used for smoothing finishing surface.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

  • Speak up, Whipper-Snapper! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,731
  • SOHC/4 Member #1235
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2015, 02:57:22 PM »
That makes sense.  I have seen some folks with wooden forms, but I had not seen how they implemented them.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2015, 11:30:28 PM »
Usually called a buck..
Sometimes though you may build an actual forming die , for say stretching into..
Good example, you make a circular saucer shaped. Drepression in a piece of wood, with a few grooves across. Then using multiple screws,  you screw the annealed blank to the wood form, the screws being  outside the actual finished part. You then hammer the metal into the form,  smooth it as much as possible. Then remove the part, trim around the outside..and presto..you have an ashtray.
 But that only works on parts or assemblies. That can pull out of the form. Like for example a sidecover. The rear fender could done that way,but involves left and right sides..and the deeper the cavity, the harder it gets to make the die and do the work..... So they use bucks instead..

 Have a buddy that has done a few bodies and tanks for his bikes..he learned fast..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2015, 02:58:21 AM »
Usually called a buck..
Sometimes though you may build an actual forming die , for say stretching into..
Good example, you make a circular saucer shaped. Drepression in a piece of wood, with a few grooves across. Then using multiple screws,  you screw the annealed blank to the wood form, the screws being  outside the actual finished part. You then hammer the metal into the form,  smooth it as much as possible. Then remove the part, trim around the outside..and presto..you have an ashtray.
 But that only works on parts or assemblies. That can pull out of the form. Like for example a sidecover. The rear fender could done that way,but involves left and right sides..and the deeper the cavity, the harder it gets to make the die and do the work..... So they use bucks instead..

 Have a buddy that has done a few bodies and tanks for his bikes..he learned fast..

Yep that technic is similar to one used by Kirkham for building aluminum Cobra bodies 

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/book_aoe/aoe_18.pdf amazing :)

We will be doing it more in this manner 



etc...

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2015, 09:16:50 AM »
Small update....

Custom sprockets arrived today. Front sprocket is made from 4321 steel(Thermally treated/carbonized after machining) and back one from 2024 T6 Al(anodization will be done).... I could not find 7075 T6 :(. Front sprocket has 15 teeth, back sprocket has 45 teeth. They are made for 525 chain. They are made to fit KTM Adventurer 1160 R rim/hub. Rim is 18x4.5.... Tubeless :)... Also these sprockets will clear 170 wide tire. I think, to fit 180 tire one would need to modify frame?(My opinion, but I am not sure) Also They are good for any Ktm 950/950/1190 hub/cushion drive...
















Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

  • Speak up, Whipper-Snapper! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,731
  • SOHC/4 Member #1235
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2015, 09:22:37 AM »
That is a monster of a rear wheel! Great looking design.  With the offset on the sprocket, will that directly match up with the custom front sprocket, too?  If so, you need to sell these!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2015, 09:58:26 AM »
That is a monster of a rear wheel! Great looking design.  With the offset on the sprocket, will that directly match up with the custom front sprocket, too?  If so, you need to sell these!

Yep. They match for f2 output shaft. For earlier models I would need to add 9.5mm more offset to front sprocket. But yes I can sell if somebody wants

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

  • Speak up, Whipper-Snapper! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,731
  • SOHC/4 Member #1235
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2015, 12:11:37 PM »
I'm committing that to memory!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2015, 01:54:33 AM »
I had small fall from my F2 over the weekend, nothing serous. But I cracked the engine on right side :'(  . The guard witch is supposed to protect engine actually made it worse. Guard hit the case at wrong angle and cracked the engine. Bike runs but dirt is coming in... I hope it can be welded :(

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2015, 02:18:12 PM »
I had small fall from my F2 over the weekend, nothing serous. But I cracked the engine on right side :'(  . The guard witch is supposed to protect engine actually made it worse. Guard hit the case at wrong angle and cracked the engine. Bike runs but dirt is coming in... I hope it can be welded :(


Is this repairable/weldable? I have broken peace. Any Advice? :(

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,033
  • I refuse...
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2015, 02:19:54 PM »
TIG weld it. It will be tricky because as you know, TIG wants a very clean surface and the motor in that area is saturated with oil inside and out.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2015, 02:25:18 PM »
TIG weld it. It will be tricky because as you know, TIG wants a very clean surface and the motor in that area is saturated with oil inside and out.

It is good to here that it can be repaired. Probably then I would need to take engine out? Bad luck in last 1 month with this bike :(

Offline calj737

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,033
  • I refuse...
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2015, 06:24:42 PM »
It would be the only way I would do it, but others may have a different opinion. Your other option is to replace the upper and lower cases, transplant the internals, and go thru a bunch of hassle.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2015, 12:56:38 AM »
It would be the only way I would do it, but others may have a different opinion. Your other option is to replace the upper and lower cases, transplant the internals, and go thru a bunch of hassle.

I agree that would be to much work for nothing. Engine works... Thanks

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2015, 11:00:44 AM »
Today I had time to start with headlight design. I don't want just basic round headlight. That would be to easy ;) I will use glass from existing bike. Outside will be also hand formed from aluminum. Internal structure will probably be 3d printed.










Offline knottedknickers

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 214
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2015, 12:00:48 PM »
Today I had time to start with headlight design. I don't want just basic round headlight. That would be to easy ;)


I like how it continues the theme of the cowl. Or sets the theme for the cowl, if you're reading from front to back. ;)
CB750 K6 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141388.0

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data" (Borgmann 2002:5).

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2015, 12:30:26 PM »
 If you want to weld it and it's lower case only its not so bad, but a bit of work.
Drain oil put it on its side..get it ready and weld..parts should be clean as it is no oil area.
 Better be good with a file for the resurfacing..  Take your time, it will come out good..
 Worth a try so long it's all, on the lower case
 With weld are pointing up,  you won't get oil trying to seep over, or maybe cause a new leak.. Less heat going to rest of engine.

Better to be 20 thou high when you weld the piece back in,  than 20thou to low..
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 06:24:09 PM by 754 »
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2015, 04:23:52 PM »
Today I had time to start with headlight design. I don't want just basic round headlight. That would be to easy ;)


I like how it continues the theme of the cowl. Or sets the theme for the cowl, if you're reading from front to back. ;)

I didn't think of it! it really reminds of the cowl or hoodie ;). Nice

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: Slow Perfection MessnerMoto
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2015, 04:28:39 PM »
If you want to weld it and it's lower case only its not so bad, but a bit of work.
Drain oil put it on its side..get it ready and weld..parts should be clean as it is no oil area.
 Better be good with a file for the resurfacing..  Take your time, it will come out good..
 Worth a try so long it's all, on the lower case
 With welfare pointing up,  you won't get oil trying to seep over, or. Maybe cause a new leak..

Yes the crack is only on ignition part of lower case. So there is no leaks. Good advice on removing oil before weld and putting it on side! That should save me time of taking out the engine. I will find someone next week to do welding I hope.

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: MessnerMoto - CB750 f2 Caferacer build - 3D printed Front fender
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2015, 10:43:09 AM »
3D printed Front fender

I will tell you first that I am not sure if this part is gonna work :) . There is 2mm of clearance between fender and brake rotors and same goes for distance between upper fork tubes and fender. After testing in real life we will now ;)

So the main reason for this fender is to change how fender is connected to upside-down forks. I hate the look of how modern inverted forks are connected to fender. Somehow it never looks right to me.

This fender is modeled in rhino 3D like everything else. It is printed in ABS plastic so it is a functional part. Because I was not sure if this plastic and 3d print will be strong enough I added support U can't see easily see(RED tubes on Picture 3). Through full length of side of the fender 4 holes go. This holes are a place for 4 aluminum tubes witch will add strength where fender is weakest.

Mounting points of fender are axle spacers and 4 bottom bolts on forks. I just need to find those 4 bolts but a little bit longer ones(20mm). 

Print time is 14h... Surface quality is rally good. Fender will be sanded and painted black. Also I need to cut off current fender mounting points on forks...






















Offline knottedknickers

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 214
Re: MessnerMoto - CB750 f2 Caferacer build - 3D printed Front fender
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2015, 11:02:33 AM »
3D printed Front fender
Mounting points of fender are axle spacers and 4 bottom bolts on forks. I just need to find those 4 bolts but a little bit longer ones (20mm).
Another example of fine work! Just one question... I wonder if you had put the 'mounting points' on the other side of the forks, i.e., the front, that would have been better? That way you would only need a longer bolt, not a longer bolt + washer + nut. You probably already thought through that and have a good reason for doing it the way you have--I'm just wondering...
CB750 K6 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141388.0

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data" (Borgmann 2002:5).

Offline MessnerMoto

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 710
Re: MessnerMoto - CB750 f2 Caferacer build - 3D printed Front fender
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2015, 11:22:58 AM »
3D printed Front fender
Mounting points of fender are axle spacers and 4 bottom bolts on forks. I just need to find those 4 bolts but a little bit longer ones (20mm).
Another example of fine work! Just one question... I wonder if you had put the 'mounting points' on the other side of the forks, i.e., the front, that would have been better? That way you would only need a longer bolt, not a longer bolt + washer + nut. You probably already thought through that and have a good reason for doing it the way you have--I'm just wondering...

Thx ;)... I've put mounting points on "back side" of the forks because I wanted to hide as much of a fender as possible. So it is a visual thing. Also I think you can't tighten up axle bolts over
the plastic of a fender.

Offline knottedknickers

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 214
Re: MessnerMoto - CB750 f2 Caferacer build - 3D printed Front fender
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2015, 12:10:36 PM »
3D printed Front fender
Mounting points of fender are axle spacers and 4 bottom bolts on forks. I just need to find those 4 bolts but a little bit longer ones (20mm).
Another example of fine work! Just one question... I wonder if you had put the 'mounting points' on the other side of the forks, i.e., the front, that would have been better? That way you would only need a longer bolt, not a longer bolt + washer + nut. You probably already thought through that and have a good reason for doing it the way you have--I'm just wondering...
Thx ;)... I've put mounting points on "back side" of the forks because I wanted to hide as much of a fender as possible. So it is a visual thing. Also I think you can't tighten up axle bolts over the plastic of a fender.
Makes sense. So you'll have bolts long enough to pinch the axle and then, fully tightened, extend through to tighten your fender to the back side with nuts.

I ask because I'm going to have to build a fender for my USD forks and it seems there ain't no easy way... :P
CB750 K6 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=141388.0

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data" (Borgmann 2002:5).