Topic: MotoGPWerks Alloy Swingarm Fitment

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

THERE IS A PLACE TO TRADE THEM IN!!  I've been in Panama for 10 days. I have a trade-in  AND there is not a nightly charge either  Younger. Appreciative (key word here!). Gorgeous.

What was the original subject? Wasn't puta.......

[Stev-o]

THERE IS A PLACE TO TRADE THEM IN!!  I've been in Panama for 10 days. I have a trade-in  AND there is not a nightly charge either  Younger. Appreciative (key word here!). Gorgeous.

Pics or she didn't happen, Jerry!

[calj737]

Pics or she didn't happen, Jerry!

Easy, theres laws against "those types" of posts here, Stev-o!

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

THERE IS A PLACE TO TRADE THEM IN!!  I've been in Panama for 10 days. I have a trade-in  AND there is not a nightly charge either  Younger. Appreciative (key word here!). Gorgeous.

Pics or she didn't happen, Jerry!

See if you can access my photobucket acct under my email address   . Panama 2015. Let me know what you think. 

[GV1390]

So I reached out (once again but via email this time) to Chris @ MotoGPWerks this morning with a poilte email requesting what can be done moving forward since I paid $285 to get his product to work. Chris replied with nothing but unprofessionalism as usual.

[calj737]

So I reached out (once again but via email this time) to Chris @ MotoGPWerks this morning with a poilte email requesting what can be done moving forward since I paid $285 to get his product to work.

What does that mean?

[GV1390]

Shall I post the email? He doesn't want to help offset the cost I had to pay to get the swingarm in safe and functioning order as suspected.

[calj737]

Shall I post the email? He doesn't want to help offset the cost I had to pay to get the swingarm in safe and functioning order as suspected.

Oh, I wasn't sure what you meant by "moving forward".

When you encountered the problem initially, did you contact him or propose to return the arm? Why did you elect to send it to Mark (certainly he is very capable, but no about to perform warranty work) and not back to MGP?

[FunJimmy]

Shall I post the email? He doesn't want to help offset the cost I had to pay to get the swingarm in safe and functioning order as suspected.

YES! He put in writing.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Surely you didn't first alter the product? Did you request a return or ask about keeping it if he would pay for modification prior to the mods?

[GV1390]

Shall I post the email? He doesn't want to help offset the cost I had to pay to get the swingarm in safe and functioning order as suspected.

Oh, I wasn't sure what you meant by "moving forward".

When you encountered the problem initially, did you contact him or propose to return the arm? Why did you elect to send it to Mark (certainly he is very capable, but no about to perform warranty work) and not back to MGP?

I called and spoke with Chris on the phone. He made it sound like I inconvenienced(as usual) him because of my concern. He stated he has test fitted it tons of times with no issues even though before I purchased it, I was told there were only a few ever made. Stated it should be used with your factory Honda collar, which mine did not fit. I'm sure he would've issued a refund right then and there but that doesn't change the fact that I the customer wanted a part that was sold as a replacement item. I also know (as per his previous comments how people who spend $50k a year there take priority over people like myself) that, the swingarm would've sat in the corner and waited until I called or emailed a bunch of times as usual. Even then, I am positive it would've just been swept under the carpet.

[GV1390]

Surely you didn't first alter the product? Did you request a return or ask about keeping it if he would pay for modification prior to the mods?

The product was NEVER altered before it was sent to HondaMan. I did not request a return or ask for him to pay anything. I wanted the product I paid for in hope it was bolt-in as advertised. I sent it to HondaMan as he virtually specializes in the factory swingarms so there is no excuse that I, the average consumer doesn't know what he is talking about.

I didn't ask Chris to cough up the $285 it cost me to get it in proper working order. I simply asked what could be done to make it right in hope he would respond respectfully, I thought wrong.

[GV1390]

My email to Chris @ MotoGPWerks this morning:

Good Morning Chris,
 
I purchased a swingarm from you back in August but ran into some issues. My motorcycle is a 1978 CB550K. Please note; I wasn not able to test fit this until last month as I was out of town for most of August. Please also keep in mind I purchased an exhaust from you as well and would like to keep future business active.
 
When attempting to test-fit it I noticed the pivot bolt that goes into the front portion of the swingarm into the frame was very loose inside the tunnel of the swingarm in between the bushings. I called you and you stated the collar had to be swapped over from my stock one and it had been test-fitted just fine. At that point I sent it to Mark "HondaMan" who has been specializing in this stuff for years as I did not feel comfortable messing with something so crucial with limited tools.
 
Upon his review he came back with the following:
 
"The ID of the swingarm bushing holes is smaller than Honda's design, so "OEM" bushings for the 750/500/550 would never fit right, in any case. They must be custom-made bushings. The ID of the swingarm is 1.0370" one side and 1.0374" the other (brake) side, where the Honda arms are more like 1.0440"-ish on all of the arms (give or take .0008" either way). So, I will make some to fit, and to use the Honda-style collar."
 
"The original bushings that came in it surely would never fit a Honda collar properly, much too loose. The struggle there is then: the holes in the swingarm for the bushings are much smaller than OEM size, so none of the Honda parts will fit, and probably none of the aftermarket one would, either. The holes were/are 1.0375" ID, where the swingarms are either 1.0440" or 1.0444", so bushings made for a press-fit will be 1.0444" to 1.0448" OD. This would leave the owner trying to press-fit a bronze bushing that is (1.0444"-1.0375")= 0.0069" (almost
seven thousandths!) bigger than the swingarm's holes. This will destroy the bushings. The ones that came in it when you sent it to me were almost .0030" larger than the biggest Honda collar, too. That's not good, as it will leave almost 0.250" (1/4") side-to-side play at the rear axle. That's dangerous!"
 
"Also noted on this particular arm: I had to make the sleeve-style bushings 1.5mm shorter than OEM length, in order to fit - the holes are not bored as deep as the OEM swingarms. This means that any of the langed or unflanged versions of bronze bushings out there will also be too long, so measure carefully before installing."
 
I hope you don't take this the wrong way as I just figured someone should make you aware of these fitment/safety issues to help prevent it in the future.
 
The bill for all of the above was $285, is there anything that can be done to make this right? I surely didn't expect to dish out half ofthe swingarm after purchase, I simply didn't know about these issues.
 
Hope all is well.


Two responses I received:

1) "Hi,
 what is going on ,
 
I just fitted this swingarm to a customer bike ,I have seen 15-20  others without any issues ,if your guy was that stupid to pull out the bushes then thats his issue .These bronze bushings are machined to fit this swingarm only I never said honda ones would fit as we make them from better material ... OEM honda bushings will not fit .
 
Then i fit the bushings i line bore it straight so its a perfect match.
 
All you had to do was to get a 75-77  sleeve and it would just go in fits perfect ...i just tested again this morning with one here.
 
Send the it back for a full refund  if your guy screwed it up then its on you and no refund  ...also i need his phone number so i can speak to him since he has no idea.
 
thanks chris"

2)"Hi,
 
As i said too you from the start all you had to do was to install a cb750 or a cb500-550 75-76 sleeve ... number 14  ...have a look at the photo i sent ...your honda expert should have known this as all honda cb750-550 from 1969 to 1977 have the same sleeve .
 
Tell your guy to call me and explain why he didnt tell you this ."

[70CB750]

I believe the guy that actually measured that particular swingarm, not the one stating "it should fit."

[GV1390]

I believe the guy that actually measured that particular swingarm, not the one stating "it should fit."

Right.

I, the average consumer didn't want to waste any of Chris's time nor wanted to send false information hence why I had someone who knows these inside and out handle it after I made my own assumptions which turned out to be correct.

What does one do moving forward now? I reached out to the seller multiple times now. Obviously now that it's been altered to function properly I wouldn't want to send it back for a refund. Do I chalk up the $285 as a loss? Do I start a PayPal dispute for $285?

[calj737]

You apparently chose not to accept his offer to return it for a refund and instead have someone else alter it. I think that voids your claim for a dispute. Whether or not the arm you received was as advertised, well thats water under the bridge in my opinion.

I understand you wanted the arm, waited for it, and wanted everything to work out. But when you alter a custom product you accept full liability for any costs or damage incurred unless you get an agreement in advance from the seller.

I feel bad for you that you had to go through some mods to get it to fit, but in the end, the $300 added to your bike build will long be forgotten, and you'll now know whether or not you care to deal with certain people in the future. Caveat emptor, Baby. Just my perspective, and of course yours differs since you've been inconvenienced. But I think his replies sort of lay out your options that you didn't choose.

[GV1390]

Chris stated as so did his ad, that this was a bolt-in item which it was was not. Every single time he had to be reached, he was always inconvenienced and made it VERY clear with his snarky comments.

What else was supposed to be done? Send an item back in hope to get it the following year? To say I was inconvenienced is an understatement. There is no reasoning with someone who is never wrong, history repeats itself and that is why he will continue to lose existing and potential customers.

I look forward to changing not only my exhaust by him but also my swingarm in the future. It is truly sad when people reach out to you in regards to a certain company, that isn't the type of person/company that should be in our community or any community at that.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

You apparently chose not to accept his offer to return it for a refund and instead have someone else alter it. I think that voids your claim for a dispute. Whether or not the arm you received was as advertised, well thats water under the bridge in my opinion.

I understand you wanted the arm, waited for it, and wanted everything to work out. But when you alter a custom product you accept full liability for any costs or damage incurred unless you get an agreement in advance from the seller.

I feel bad for you that you had to go through some mods to get it to fit, but in the end, the $300 added to your bike build will long be forgotten, and you'll now know whether or not you care to deal with certain people in the future. Caveat emptor, Baby. Just my perspective, and of course yours differs since you've been inconvenienced. But I think his replies sort of lay out your options that you didn't choose.

+1

Well stated Cal. It should have been returned but was accepted as is and altered at which point it became end of story. 

[GV1390]

You apparently chose not to accept his offer to return it for a refund and instead have someone else alter it. I think that voids your claim for a dispute. Whether or not the arm you received was as advertised, well thats water under the bridge in my opinion.

I understand you wanted the arm, waited for it, and wanted everything to work out. But when you alter a custom product you accept full liability for any costs or damage incurred unless you get an agreement in advance from the seller.

I feel bad for you that you had to go through some mods to get it to fit, but in the end, the $300 added to your bike build will long be forgotten, and you'll now know whether or not you care to deal with certain people in the future. Caveat emptor, Baby. Just my perspective, and of course yours differs since you've been inconvenienced. But I think his replies sort of lay out your options that you didn't choose.

+1

Well stated Cal. It should have been returned but was accepted as is and altered at which point it became end of story.

Have you ever done business with Chris @ MotoGPWerks? Have you ever called or emailed any questions or concerns?

[70CB750]

I would forget the money spent or consider it safe factor - Mark Paris is likely the best guy ever to fit a swingarm for Honda motorcycle.

And I would never do business with Chris again and made sure that people know this whole story.

[FunJimmy]

This customer service experience is (was) exactly what I suffered when purchasing his Yosh replica exhaust.
My story got considerably more aggressive (bordering on criminal) before I finally shipped the exhaust back and wrote off an expensive repair (fitment) bill.

I think we've become so convicted that we have to have MotoGPWerks products because they are pretty frickin cool and there are few choices, that we accept the burden of correcting deficiencies rather than not having the parts. I'm sure there are probably very few product issues but when they arise they MUST be handled in a swift and professional manner. Paying customers that put faith in a companies products deserve no less.

Thankfully Kemp and Hindle have provided an excellent exhaust alternative.

[calj737]

Have you ever done business with Chris @ MotoGPWerks? Have you ever called or emailed any questions or concerns?

GV - I hope you don't perceive that anyone is doubting your experience. I was merely stating "how I suspect the story would unfold" if the facts became disputed. You have very right to be disappointed, and frustrated, no doubt. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter who the Seller is, the principles apply. Buy something "custom", alter it, you're on your own. End of story.

Now, that doesn't excuse the dilemma you had, nor the fitment issues. I, would have returned it and learned to live without it, OR, struck an agreement in advance to remedy it, Or, correct it and eat the expense. As a consumer you have choices. but once you've altered something, you no longer provide a Seller many choices. He can magnanimously offer a refund, or tell you to jam it. Let your feet dictate your spending preference and put the whole episode behind you. Life too short. And this will NOT be the last time you get burned (unfortunately).

Now, to aggravate matters, you should have sent it to me, and I would have fixed it for you. Next time maybe...

Now go enjoy the weekend and purge your frustration- 

[Retro Rocket]

Chris stated as so did his ad, that this was a bolt-in item which it was was not. Every single time he had to be reached, he was always inconvenienced and made it VERY clear with his snarky comments.

What else was supposed to be done?  To say I was inconvenienced is an understatement. There is no reasoning with someone who is never wrong, history repeats itself and that is why he will continue to lose existing and potential customers.

I look forward to changing not only my exhaust by him but also my swingarm in the future. It is truly sad when people reach out to you in regards to a certain company, that isn't the type of person/company that should be in our community or any community at that.

This would be funny if it wasn't so stupid, If you buy a defective part SEND IT BACK, what is it about that simple fact you don't get...!!!  You would have got a FULL REFUND,  You made this a problem by not doing this in the first place because you really wanted it, silly noob mistake right there, You modified it so you OWN IT, so please explain why Chris should even listen to you at all..?   Now you are just stirring sh1t...Says more about you than him..."shouldn't be in the community" , Why, ? because YOU mishandled the whole sorry saga ?, tell that to his thousands of happy customers, what a joke, Even without walk ins he's had over 1000 ebay sales at 100% feedback...
Now you , out of your own poor handling of the situation, are going to sell 2 items that are perfectly good, and lose more money out of spite, really !

Send an item back in hope to get it the following year?

Now you are making sh1t up, you don't know this, nor could you know this.....  This is YOUR FAULT because of the way you handled it, own it and go away...

Just one more thing, If you had asked advice about this on the forum you would have had an overwhelming "SEND IT BACK", does that make it any clearer...?   

[GV1390]

This customer service experience is (was) exactly what I suffered when purchasing his Yosh replica exhaust.
My story got considerably more aggressive (bordering on criminal) before I finally shipped the exhaust back and wrote off an expensive repair (fitment) bill.

I think we've become so convicted that we have to have MotoGPWerks products because they are pretty frickin cool and there are few choices, that we accept the burden of correcting deficiencies rather than not having the parts. I'm sure there are probably very few product issues but when they arise they MUST be handled in a swift and professional manner. Paying customers that put faith in a companies products deserve no less.

Thankfully Kemp and Hindle have provided an excellent exhaust alternative.

At least someone gets it, it's appreciated.

Cal, I understand where you're coming from, I know you've done business with Chris and can at least understand my perspective unlike a certain other who simply sounds just like Chris, no wonder they are buds.

I only mentioned something on here because there was a thread on it. I have a couple others who came to me complaining as well but that's besides the point. Either way I will continue to move forward with my build in a successful manner. What's done is done and I wish any moron who does business with MotoGPWerks the best of luck, and I truly mean that.

[70CB750]

No matter how you cut it, Chris comes out as A1 #$%*. Just read his email.

And Mark did not modify the arm, he just made custom bushings for it and made it work. Kudos to Mark.  My points is, it could still be proven that piece was #$%*ed up from production and Chris refused to own it just like the "good" guy he is.

And Chris verifying fit on another piece - apparently correct piece - does not prove anything at all, he is like SW helpline telling customer - it works for me on my end.

Compare this to Pamcopete or Ken from CycleX.