Topic: Bring your gun to the cinema !!

[BobbyR]

Even the wild west had places you could not carry guns freely.

Guns were obviously widespread on the frontier. Out in the untamed wilderness, you needed a gun to be safe from bandits, natives, and wildlife. In the cities and towns of the West, however, the law often prohibited people from toting their guns around. A visitor arriving in Wichita, Kansas in 1873, the heart of the Wild West era, would have seen signs declaring, "Leave Your Revolvers At Police Headquarters, and Get a Check."

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that "any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law." Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona--the site of the infamous "Shootout at the OK Corral"--also barred the carrying of guns openly.

You are correct. I used the word Mythology on purpose. On any given year there were more shootings in Boston than Tombstome or  Dodge City.

This became our cultural model and as the fear of restrictions mount, gun sales go up. I wish everyone would calm down. But, Politicians need a band aid and newspapers need a story.

[ofreen]

Gotta get the crazies the help they need and a better way to monitor them 

It would be curious to actually find the "cause" of their disturbed ideas, and rid the world of that.

That was covered pretty well in "A.Clockwork Orange."

[Duke McDukiedook]

And weapon makers have widgets to peddle.
And I just wish cooler heads would prevail but we know how that story goes... 

[vfourfreak]

Even the wild west had places you could not carry guns freely.

Guns were obviously widespread on the frontier. Out in the untamed wilderness, you needed a gun to be safe from bandits, natives, and wildlife. In the cities and towns of the West, however, the law often prohibited people from toting their guns around. A visitor arriving in Wichita, Kansas in 1873, the heart of the Wild West era, would have seen signs declaring, "Leave Your Revolvers At Police Headquarters, and Get a Check."

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that "any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law." Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona--the site of the infamous "Shootout at the OK Corral"--also barred the carrying of guns openly.

You are correct. I used the word Mythology on purpose. On any given year there were more shootings in Boston than Tombstome or  Dodge City.

This became our cultural model and as the fear of restrictions mount, gun sales go up. I wish everyone would calm down. But, Politicians need a band aid and newspapers need a story.

Politicians yes, like in some local or state sort of fellow. But a presidential hopeful ? ?

Has this happened before ?

Kev

PS we are sorely close to the "P" word, but we are doing fine so far.

[vfourfreak]

Thanks all for a reasoned debate. I suppose I'm trying to plumb the safety / freedom / legal situation.

I'm curiously feeling safe here in France.

Where I cannot have a gun.

Kev

[demon78]

Ok gents ladies you are taught that it is you right to pack a gun are you also taught that you are responsible for the ones you kill? In other words a law of physics equal and opposite reaction it looks to me there is a social law as well equal and opposite maybe you can pack but if you don't use it responsibly you are on the hook for the damage and I don't mean jail I mean you pay for the wife and kids all the living expenses whatever the costs, no cheap way out by state execution you are kept going until the debt is settled I wonder if that would in time cut down on the gun mentality.
 Curious.
Bill the demon.

[BobbyR]

Even the wild west had places you could not carry guns freely.

Guns were obviously widespread on the frontier. Out in the untamed wilderness, you needed a gun to be safe from bandits, natives, and wildlife. In the cities and towns of the West, however, the law often prohibited people from toting their guns around. A visitor arriving in Wichita, Kansas in 1873, the heart of the Wild West era, would have seen signs declaring, "Leave Your Revolvers At Police Headquarters, and Get a Check."

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that "any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law." Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona--the site of the infamous "Shootout at the OK Corral"--also barred the carrying of guns openly.

You are correct. I used the word Mythology on purpose. On any given year there were more shootings in Boston than Tombstome or  Dodge City.

This became our cultural model and as the fear of restrictions mount, gun sales go up. I wish everyone would calm down. But, Politicians need a band aid and newspapers need a story.

Politicians yes, like in some local or state sort of fellow. But a presidential hopeful ? ?

Has this happened before ?

Kev

PS we are sorely close to the "P" word, but we are doing fine so far.

A presidential hopeful is nothing more than someone who started off as a local politician and worked their way up. Hilliary is an exception.

For you to make sense of the US can be difficult. With 50 States with differing laws and customs it would be very hard to have a uniform law. It seems confusing, but it is a very good system if you work with it. 

I spent some time in law enforcement so I have a unrestricted carry license. I simply do not carry except on a a very rare occasion. Like you, I feel quite safe, the US is actually quite safe. There are spots it is not very very safe, but that is anywhere.

I need to go tend to the Babe Thread, it needs some serious content .

[Retro Rocket]

Even the wild west had places you could not carry guns freely.

Guns were obviously widespread on the frontier. Out in the untamed wilderness, you needed a gun to be safe from bandits, natives, and wildlife. In the cities and towns of the West, however, the law often prohibited people from toting their guns around. A visitor arriving in Wichita, Kansas in 1873, the heart of the Wild West era, would have seen signs declaring, "Leave Your Revolvers At Police Headquarters, and Get a Check."

When Dodge City residents organized their municipal government, do you know what the very first law they passed was? A gun control law. They declared that "any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law." Many frontier towns, including Tombstone, Arizona--the site of the infamous "Shootout at the OK Corral"--also barred the carrying of guns openly.

You are correct. I used the word Mythology on purpose. On any given year there were more shootings in Boston than Tombstome or  Dodge City.

This became our cultural model and as the fear of restrictions mount, gun sales go up. I wish everyone would calm down. But, Politicians need a band aid and newspapers need a story.

Politicians yes, like in some local or state sort of fellow. But a presidential hopeful ? ?

Has this happened before ?

Kev

PS we are sorely close to the "P" word, but we are doing fine so far.

A presidential hopeful is nothing more than someone who started off as a local politician and worked their way up. Hilliary is an exception.

For you to make sense of the US can be difficult. With 50 States with differing laws and customs it would be very hard to have a uniform law. It seems confusing, but it is a very good system if you work with it. 

I spent some time in law enforcement so I have a unrestricted carry license. I simply do not carry except on a a very rare occasion. Like you, I feel quite safe, the US is actually quite safe. There are spots it is not very very safe, but that is anywhere.

I need to go tend to the Babe Thread, it needs some serious content .

I suppose it all depends on what you call safe and what you are used to, we've had huge debate on gun laws here as well, you are 15 times more likely to be shot in the US than in Australia, I feel very safe here...

[eigenvector]

At the risk of becoming unpopular again, I'll voice my opinion.

I don't think it has anything to do with the presence or availability of firearms.  I shot competitively before my spinal injury and never once in the presence of all those firearms did I feel unsafe.  I'm not trying to be glib, I'm just pointing out that it isn't the tool, it's the person.  Here in the US we value freedom, independence, over social harmony and when you combine that with people who have poor judgment - you get violence.  That's the price we pay for a generally libertarian society - and one I wouldn't trade for anything.  If you worry about gun violence, focus on why people want to commit violence.  Solve that and you'll be mankind's savior.  Confiscate my rifles and I'll just hate your guts.

[Spanner 1]

Don't think I've ever heard a gun debate without the very American term 'good guys' and 'bad guys'... so simplistic ! Who gets to decide who is the 'good guy' who should be allowed a carry permit ?. Obviously white, middle aged  and of a particular political persuasion would be first in line..... slippery slope indeed !! If all the good guys had guns they could shoot the bad guy trying to randomly shoot the unarmed 'sheep' in church/ movies/ game, wherever. Yep, white armed privilege is what we want to add to all the existing white privilege that already exists in this country.

[Retro Rocket]

Come now, Retro, we have 14x more people! We are absolutely bound to have more nut jobs doing stupid, evil things. 

 

[nixon]

this guy..

[nixon]

Come now, Retro, we have 14x more people! We are absolutely bound to have more nut jobs doing stupid, evil things. 

the numbers dont lie..

per 100,000 population per year

canada - 0.51
australia .11
America land of the...gun.. 3.55

thats homicides only..alot of accidental etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[ekpent]

Don't think I've ever heard a gun debate without the very American term 'good guys' and 'bad guys'... so simplistic ! Who gets to decide who is the 'good guy' who should be allowed a carry permit ?. Obviously white, middle aged  and of a particular political persuasion would be first in line..... slippery slope indeed !! If all the good guys had guns they could shoot the bad guy trying to randomly shoot the unarmed 'sheep' in church/ movies/ game, wherever. Yep, white armed privilege is what we want to add to all the existing white privilege that already exists in this country.

Not true. In Michigan it simply boils down to the fact if you have a criminal record or mental history or not. There are no longer any gun boards etc. who make judgements. "White Privilege" or the color of your skin has no bearing on it. Pink,yellow,green,purple, red,black, white all qualify if you are in good standing. Of course a training course is mandatory also. My Son recently went through the whole process.

[BobbyR]

Come now, Retro, we have 14x more people! We are absolutely bound to have more nut jobs doing stupid, evil things. 

the numbers dont lie..

per 100,000 population per year

canada - 0.51
australia .11
America land of the...gun.. 3.55

thats homicides only..alot of accidental etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Nope numbers don't lie.

1 in 4 Women come down with Breast Cancer.
1 in 6 Men get Prostate Cancer.

In the US.
13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is 72.34 per 100,000 registered motorcycles.

A national study by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATS) found that:
Motorcycle rider deaths were nearly 30 times more than drivers of other vehicles.

OK, so safety is an illusion. We accept the risk when we ride.

[Spanner 1]

Hollow drivel... ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YXv2Pjtc3Zk

[Duanob]

This is the typical joke on gun free zones; if it works so well, why does not it apply to everybody?

Yeah, right! Why pack a pistol when you got the entire US military to protect you.

[socal1200r]

No one's addressed the elephant in the room, at least for those of us in the U.S., and that's the Second Amendment..." A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

This supports the saying of "the people shouldn't fear the govt, the govt should fear the people".  Depending on how one interprets our Second Amendment, it's our right to keep and bear arms, with restrictions.  Now, there are places where one can't carry a firearm, like most Federal buildings (post offices, court houses, etc), schools, banks, etc.  And there are states that further restricts where one can carry, usually by posting a sign that says no firearms allowed.  But for most with a conceal carry, that doesn't matter (i.e. that's the purposes of "conceal" carry).  There are states that restrict the actual types of firearms you can have, as well as ammunition capacity.  CA is one of the worst, and several of my firearms that I have in VA would not be allowed in CA.  And there are even those in the legal world that believe our right to keep and bear arms stops at our property line.  So there's far from being a "universal" understanding and application of the 2nd Amendment. 

I was in a mall one day, wasn't carrying, but there weren't any signs that prohibited carrying.  So I asked a couple of police officers who were there about this.  Their reply was this.  Yes, there aren't any signs prohibiting carrying, but if I was carrying and a merchant asked me to leave, and I didn't, I'd be guilty of trespassing on private property at that point, and the cops would have the legal justification to escort me out of the mall.  Virginia is an open-carry state, but I prefer to conceal carry.  And yes, I've concealed carry in a movie theater several times.  I myself don't particularly care for "gun free zones", so I try to avoid them whenever possible.

It's not the police's job to protect you, that's your job, and yours alone...   

[Retro Rocket]

Come now, Retro, we have 14x more people! We are absolutely bound to have more nut jobs doing stupid, evil things. 

the numbers dont lie..

per 100,000 population per year

canada - 0.51
australia .11
America land of the...gun.. 3.55

thats homicides only..alot of accidental etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I won't dispute for a moment that there's a gun-death problem here. The only dispute is whether it's from "good guys" being irresponsible or from criminals committing crime upon each other.

But a variable that must be factored in is population density where the preponderance of the incidents occur. For instance, add the population of NYC and Chicago together and you're quite close to all of Oz. And all of that is stuffed into an area smaller than Sydney and Melbourne. That many people together created social problems and anti-moral behavior. Throw some guns into the mix, and you've got a recipe for a problems.

And that is my point exactly, its directly correlated to the amount of firearms in public hands....    I think you are also drifting into social policy area's as well there Cal...  I'm out now mate, the fruit loop has turned up..

I myself don't particularly care for "gun free zones", so I try to avoid them whenever possible.

hahahahahahahahahahaha    what a tool....

[333]

Has that been established ? I ask cos I don't think the USA has a monopoly on mental illness.

Kev

No, but the rest of the civilized world has control of their guns.

[eigenvector]

Only until very recently  that is.  Australia's ratios weren't that far from what they are now, and their laws are very recent indeed - a response to a series of very unfortunate incidents.

Despite what the media would have us believe, gun violence in this country is predominately suicide and gang warfare.  Confiscating my rifles isn't going to cure that.

[demon78]

I still am not about telling you how to do it in the states you keep it on your side of the border and you can kill each other off if you want to there seems to be a disconnect between a well regulated militia shouldn't the citizen army be helping to remove some of the criminals?
Bill the demon.

[Retro Rocket]

Only until very recently  that is.  Australia's ratios weren't that far from what they are now, and their laws are very recent indeed - a response to a series of very unfortunate incidents.

Despite what the media would have us believe, gun violence in this country is predominately suicide and gang warfare.  Confiscating my rifles isn't going to cure that.

Thats incorrect, you guys have had well over 1000 deaths from over 150 mass shootings in the last 9-10 years, thats shootings where at least 4 people were killed or more at any single time, we haven't had one, actually, we've only ever had one mass shooting since 1978 {34 people in Tasmania by a mental patient}. Our laws are old, they only tightened the rules for application in 1996 {20 years ago}, for keeping guns and banned semi automatic rifles, anyone here can still own a gun , types are restricted and a thorough police check is necessary and they must be kept in a gun safe. We've never really had a history of military style guns in the populace, there's simply no need for them.  All gun related statistics, including suicide from gun, have dropped dramatically and continue to do so...

[krusty]

Most all these cases have one thing in common-Mental Illness. We used to have a large State Hospital here in Kalamazoo, now they all live at the homeless shelters and hang out in the parks, libraries and bus stations etc.. Gotta get the crazies the help they need and a better way to monitor them    Friends and family members have to do their part also.  "Gun Free" zones are a billboard to these people.

That's not what we're seeing on the news over here. The perps seem to be 'normal' people with a grudge of some sort. Pissed of kids, jilted lovers, sacked workers etc. Are we missing something?

[eigenvector]

We've never really had a history of military style guns in the populace, there's simply no need for them.  All gun related statistics, including suicide from gun, have dropped dramatically and continue to do so...

  Those stats are disputed - the contention is that other means were found.

Those stats are true in the US as well, violent crime has been on the decline for a few decades.  If it's a trend, it has nothing to do with the laws, which haven't changed.  Social changes?  I don't know, all I know is that I'm glad it is falling.  High profile cases don't impress me, our laws should be based on consistent trends and those trends show that the situation is improving overall without firearm restrictions.