Topic: Bring your gun to the cinema !!

[Retro Rocket]

We've never really had a history of military style guns in the populace, there's simply no need for them.  All gun related statistics, including suicide from gun, have dropped dramatically and continue to do so...

  Those stats are disputed - the contention is that other means were found.

Disputed by who..?  we don't have the NRA here and the stats are pure stats, no political inference what so ever.. They aren't disputed at all my friend, the truth is well documented, gun related crime dropped dramatically here, this is about guns, people will always commit suicide unfortunately...

[nixon]

No one's addressed the elephant in the room, at least for those of us in the U.S., and that's the Second Amendment..." Ary, that doesn't matter (i.e. that's the purposes of "conceal" carry).  There are states that restrict the actual types of firearms you can have, as well as ammunition capacity.  CA is one of the worst, and several of my firearms that I have in VA would not be allowed in CA.  And there are even those in the legal world that believe our right to keep and bear arms stops at our property line.  So there's far from being a "universal" understanding and application of the 2nd Amendment. 

It's not the police's job to protect you, that's your job, and yours alone...

um its an amendment. you can always change an amendment,,how do you think they got the amendment..they amended something earlier.

I was fascinated watching that show 'cops'. Bad boys bad boys..

Two guys, who knew each other, had a fist fight.  one went up into his 2nd story apartment. the other got a gun from a car and proceeded to shoot up into the apartment.  the other gun, leans over balcony and shoots back. this goes on for awhile. The guy on ground level is shot dead. Cops turn up. " well, this is self defence..your got your gun license buddy? all good...your free to go..case closed" 

Now im guessing most americans would think thats really normal- but its really crazy to the rest of the planet.

At best its homicide, not self defense, at worse its murder.

Y'all so entrenched in guns you cant see the woods for the barrels, gun barrels that is.

Dont get me wrong, I love alot about usa..just not the gun obsession/culture


Peace!

[nixon]

If have to disagree Nixon that anyone would think that "normal". The media sensationalizes a great deal, both for and against certain initiatives. Oddly enough, Eigenvictor cites accurate stats that homicide rates by gun violence has been declining for decades. Still has a long way to go to rival Oz though!

um the police officers confirmed its normal!!

 A person, with a gun license, killed someone. The fact they both shot at each other made it self defence.
 case closed" no investigation. done deal. Next.
 Same as if someone steps on your property, cant you legally just shoot them in usa? thats not normal.
Its the law, NRA will never back down.." over my dead body.."  so its normal..

[nixon]

yeah i wasnt sure about shooting on private property,

But I stand by the view you can kill in self defense ie a shoot out ,  and walk away scott free in usa

think its called Stand your ground

In the United States, a stand-your-ground law is a law that authorizes a person to protect and defend one's own life and limb against threat or perceived threat. This law states that an individual has no duty to retreat from any place he/she has a lawful right to be and may use any level of force, including lethal, if he/she reasonably believes he/she faces an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm or death; this is as opposed to duty to retreat laws.

“Stand Your Ground”

As many as 32 states recently have adopted “stand your ground” laws that expand traditional self defense laws and extend the castle doctrine to confrontations outside a person’s home. (For more information on the stand your ground defense, see "Stand Your Ground" New Trends in Self-Defense Law.)

The stand your ground defense may apply and permit a victim to brandish or use a firearm, depending on state law, in the following situations:

    Beyond the house. If a person is confronted in his vehicle or on his residential property including the driveway, swimming pool area, or land around the home, he may respond with a firearm.
    A public place. If an aggressor uses force or threatens violence against another in a public place, the person being attacked or threatened has no duty to choose an apparent safe way to retreat, and may instead use the amount of reasonable force necessary to fend off the attacker.

[nixon]

so because that guy was in his legal house, with his legal gun, he could blast away and kill someone, cause he was in fear.

[nixon]

er Ive never posted in this forum area before but noticed now it says clearly - No politics

so im out., apologies

[Duke McDukiedook]

If have to disagree Nixon that anyone would think that "normal". The media sensationalizes a great deal, both for and against certain initiatives. Oddly enough, Eigenvictor cites accurate stats that homicide rates by gun violence has been declining for decades. Still has a long way to go to rival Oz though!

Crime overall has been going down in the US since the late 90's. I can point to one thing that was presented on a website that I read about outliers a while ago but guns have nothing to do with it.

[vames]

I find it ironic that the party of Abraham Lincoln is arguing for more guns in theaters.

[Duke McDukiedook]

I find it ironic that the party of Abraham Lincoln is arguing for more guns in theaters.

You sir have officially won this thread. Shut it down now. 

[JWExperience]

The prior comment about 1000 people dying in mass shootings over the past ten years is common misrepresentation of reality. Even by your statement that a mass killing is four or more people. I hate arguing this with people that don't live here because they clearly can't wrap their head around what really goes on here but ill make one statement and ignore this thread because it's mostly wasted air.
Four or more people killed in one incident happens routinely in Chicago. It is without a doubt overwhelmingly gang related. Look up how many gun related homicides there are in Chicago, not suicides. Then look at how many are gang related.
These are not law abiding citizens that fight for their first amendment rights. They don't care about my rights and equally show a depraved indifference to human life.
The city I work in is tiny compared to Chicago but we have a strong gang presence. Wejust had a weeken with 11 people shot In Two days. It WAS all gang related.
Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the U.S. And is one of, if not, the deadliest city in the U.S. Coincidentally also where Obama is from. Gun laws in the U.S. Only prevent people that follow the laws from getting guns. Criminals don't care which is why gun control to date has not worked. Stupid politicians that never did anything in law enforcement or other pertinent fields trying to make knee jerk decisions to get elected next time around. If it wasn't overblown in the media that same politician wouldn't bat an eye at it.
Anyone can put numbers on paper but to understand them is s different thing. Mass shootings like sandyhook and the movie theaters happen once every couple years typically. There has not been 100-150 mass shootings of completely innocent people  like that in the past ten years. Just bad people shooting other bad people.
Next time somebody wants to show a YouTube video just remember that perception is not reality and stop showing videos of tools carrying open and trying to get officer to do dumb #$%*. They are wasting resources and proving nothing. It's hard to show the officer is doing nothing wrong when they have no idea what the officer is doing and why. On the other hand it's easy for you to watch that video and say it's racism when you have limited information. In the video you have completely different circumstances. For starters it's two different cops! How do you know that the second cop that proned out the black male wouldn't have done it to the white guy. Stupid argument and clearly hollow drivel.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Chicago is a bad example to use. The reason why there are so many shootings there is because this huge push to create charter and for profit schools to attempt to remedy the intentionally neglected public schools forces students to go to schools outside their neighborhood where they reside. They encroach on territory outside where they reside and voila! Shootings occur.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Have you read many news articles about the participants and victims in the shootings in Chicago? I have, a lot of them involve young people that get caught up when they stumble into different gang territory because their charter school is clear across town.

But, I am sure in your strawman argument that 'All we need is a good guy with a gun' and arm these young youths as they are forced to venture outside their neighborhood that would solve all the gang problems in Cheecago.

http://www.chicagojustice.org/blog/yes-institutional-violence-does-exist-and-it-exacerbates-youth-violence

[vfourfreak]

I sort of regret starting this post. I have learned a bit from the responses, but I don't like to see so many forum members falling out with each other. (Correctly done, that can be healthy, no ??).

My own view is that in Europe gun ownership is so restricted that there is little to fear on the firearms front, except from terrorists and there are many hues of them, and some are present almost everywhere - or soon will be.

I believe the restrictions in Australia brought about a positive result.

I continue to learn a lot about the situation in the USA, but honestly it puts me off a return visit. That is mainly because it appears to me (note my emphasis) that many interactions can be based on  fear, like watch out, the guy you want to remonstrate for cutting you off on the road might have a gun - legal or not. And I truly regret seeing the attitude of many Police officers (recorded on video) where they appear to go into a situation with a degree of agression rooted in the fear that the citizen may be armed and so a possible threat to them.

Simplistic views from France.

Kev

[evanphi]

I would like to provide the Canadian side of the "gun control" story.

Here in Canada, we can own rifles (including semi-automatic), shotguns, and pistols. We cannot own fully-automatic firearms (unless they were grandfathered in, such as old military collectibles).

Semi-auto rifles' magazines are limited to 5 rounds, with some notable exceptions such as the American M1 Garand (8 rounds enbloc).
Pistols' magazines are limited to 10 rounds.
Pistol barrel length is limited to no shorter than 4.13" (105mm), center fire rifles 18", semi-auto rifles, 18.5". Shotguns and rimfire firearms, if the barrel length is shorter than 18" FROM THE FACTORY, it is perfectly legal. But you cannot MODIFY it to make it shorter than that 18" limit.

Some rifles are put into the "restricted" category (same as pistols) by name and appearance... AR-15 and variants. Even though they are just the same as any other semi-auto rifle. Just more plastic!
Some rifles are banned by name and appearance... AK47. Even though they are the same as any other semi-auto rifle!

All Canadians who wish to Possess and Acquire non-restricted firearms (long rifles, shotguns) must take a MANDATORY training course, and pass a test. To obtain Restricted firearms (pistols and other so-deemed rifles (such as the AR-15 and variants)), Canadians must do another course and test.

All applicants undergo DAILY, automated police background checks while PAL or R-PAL is valid.

All firearms are subject to strict storage and (especially for restricted) transportation laws.


Canada has some pretty silly laws when it comes to firearms. The banning/restricting of who can own one type of semi-auto rifle because of how it looks, or the name it was given, is just downright absurd. It is a firearm. It is no more "dangerous" than the person wielding it.

We can't open or concealed carry, we can't hunt with pistols, and we are probably some of the most scrutinized/"watched" people in Canada. And yet we are seen as "nuts" because we like to make things go boom sometimes. 

I LIKE the firearms laws in Canada. They are mostly reasonable, in terms of training, education, and licensing. I think if more states followed our methods, and INCLUDED the right to open/concealed carry (with more MANDATORY training) where they already exist... the US's gun "problem" might be improved a bit.


I FEEL LIKE THAT WAS A RANT.

Someone give me a direct question, dammit!

[vfourfreak]

Do you think Canadian gun laws were influenced by the Fenian invasion of Canada in 1866 ?

Kev 

[demon78]

No Kev it was when we burned the "White House" and the war of 1812 everyone decided that war was pretty silly and mostly guns got people hurt I mean #$%* they make a piss poor shovel, trying to take down trees with them is noisy, smelly and costly as far as a hammer goes that's downright dangerous, the wife, #$%*es about tripping over them and they don't make very good toys for wee Morag or Hamish so in that vein what's the point, mostly we weren't at war with our Indians except over the cost of fish  although I think they regret now days that they didn't have a few more wars with us, at least the entrepreneur types you know the free whiskey types the Indian could probably manage but the white man would get pissed up and forget all those promises he made Now after the wars that we did go into people brought back the occasional weapon and I'm pretty sure if we'd been invaded at that time all the airforce would have had to do to keep the guerrilla war going was drop .303 in every small hamlet and city I myself had a mint long branch enfield  that I had traded for some Ogden Nash verse the one he himself called "doggerel" not quite the same attitude towards weapons as our southern neighbors eh
Bill the demon.

[vfourfreak]

No Kev it was when we burned the "White House"

Now that's simply vandalism Bill.

Commendable, but vandalism none the less.

Kev

PS (How did you do it ??)

[BobbyR]

No Kev it was when we burned the "White House"

Now that's simply vandalism Bill.

Commendable, but vandalism none the less.

Kev

PS (How did you do it ??)

No it was not vandalism, it was payback. The US declared war on Canada as part of the British Empire. France and England were mixing it up overseas and we sided with the French. It was in simple terms some undecided issues left over from the Revolution.

The British blockaded the East Coast and the Canadians teamed up with their Indians and the Brits. They came across the border, kicked our asses, burned the White House.  Francis Scott Key penned the National Anthem during one of the battles. Everyone went home at the end with the borders intact.   

[vfourfreak]

Bobby, pas de souci, Je comprends completement ! 

In 1916 in Ireland, we started a fairly similar bout of Shenanigans. Took 5 years, but we sort of won. But no politics, now. OK 

Kev

[scrapvalue]

I would just like to say, that as soon as our government actually makes an attempt at disarming the criminals and outlaws, I would probably at least listen to why we shouldn't be able to legally own a gun. (still won't believe it).
But until then, them and all the bleeding hearts out there can just go p!$$ up a rope.
Unarming the honest people in this country is not the answer.

And that's all I have to say about that,(maybe).

[vfourfreak]

Kev - nothing at all to fear about traveling within and to the U.S. It's a delightful place filled with a wide range of diverse people, cultures, subcultures, and short history. Some very great places to see, and like everywhere, we have places to avoid. Picturesque scenery, great riding climate somewhere always, and heaps of friendly people.

It's a big place with lots of people. So it's filled with everything you can expect as a result. Honk your horn politely (or sparingly) and get over it. Remonstrations don't solve problems, smiles do.

It would be "our" loss if you or others stopped coming due to a media bash of social issues.

Hey Cal,

there was a bit of my tongue in my cheek  I'm planning a road tour of the USA to meet friends that I last saw 30 years ago when I lived there, and maybe some ones that I have met online  since.

Hell, I might even go back to Texas.

While I love France, Europe even, I think my horizons got limited recently. Better get out there again.

Kev

[vfourfreak]

Absolutely! And when you do come over, stop by. I'll loan you a piece for your travels  of course, it will only shoot Pez knowing your Euro Irish roots 

Thanks Cal,

bit of clarification performed. Not to worry, I'll convert the old Pop a Pez  dispenser to something more usefull. If required.

I might even stop by Bordeaux on the way out and get some of that wine you hanker after.

Kev

[vfourfreak]

'89 Pichon Longueville Baron, if you please!

Yeah, yeah I remember.

[Killer Canary]

Canadians have to keep returning to the states because our booze and cigarettes are cheaper there.

[evanphi]

Canadians have to keep returning to the states because our booze and cigarettes are cheaper there.

Perks of living close to the border!

But damn that exchange rate. It has been going up steadily since I bought my bike. Coincidence.........?