Author Topic: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner  (Read 36556 times)

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Offline Ilja

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2015, 05:32:00 am »
Are these tensioners really critical on these bikes? I just removed OEM tensioners from an engine which had 72.000km on it... and it hardened and was worn only a little. Mostly it was hardening from age..
I installed new oem's back into my turbo engine... also the standard camchain (as I have also the standard camshaft and springs).

Perhaps if you have tough valve springs and a big camshaft it would make sense, otherwise I'm a bit in doubt to be honest..

The way a turbo spools up I wouldn't hesitate using a heavy duty cam chain, I use them anyway, any improvement on the old technology is good, same with the tensioner, get some of those little pieces of the wheel in an oil gallery and kiss your hipo engine goodbye....

Hmmm well as long as its the standard springs and camshaft... I don't think it matters much. I figured basically it spools up as fast as you can rev it in neutral. :-)

The small pieces coming off your rollers and stuff won't get into you oil gallery as it will always end up at the filter mesh of the pump and then the really small pieces go through your oil filter.

I used to be worried about all this stuff too, but over the years I noticed most of the times you want to "fix" too much. :-)

Yes, It will spool up like that but with load, there's no load in neutral, big difference, with the small rubber parts, if they are small enough they will go straight through the pump and gather slowly in the galleries, it may never happen but for me, I would rather have the better, newer stuff and not have to worry  ;), I'm over taking risks with expensive engines....  Enjoy the turbo.... ;D

I partly don't agree.. sorry about that. :)
The load on the camshaft is the same wether you are in neutral or in gear. The chain just rotates the camshaft and pushes the valves down, not more then that.

If valve spring pressure increases, you increase forces in your chain. So for a NA engine with a big cam and strong springs.. yes, it is needed especially as Honda fit a better camshaft in the F2 engine which had a different camshaft and springs.

The primary chains in my engine however, they are getting hell now lol...Would like to have a better tensioner and HD chains over there but I didn't want to split the cases and everything so I will check them after a year or something.

My engine has a fleebay 836cc kit and a modified head, but cost maybe only 500 euros in the end.. (excl. turbo) so it's a nice test for everyone else to see how much these engines can take with double torque.  :P

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2015, 06:57:48 am »
Theres a guy in Germany that sells the heavy duty primary chains, when you are ready contact forum member nippon, he's at Classic Cycle City Germany, they make the chains, you are correct with the cam and load...I'd still prefer the heavy duty cam chains though... :P ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2015, 09:27:14 am »
Are these tensioners really critical on these bikes? I just removed OEM tensioners from an engine which had 72.000km on it... and it hardened and was worn only a little. Mostly it was hardening from age..
I installed new oem's back into my turbo engine... also the standard camchain (as I have also the standard camshaft and springs).

Perhaps if you have tough valve springs and a big camshaft it would make sense, otherwise I'm a bit in doubt to be honest..
in road racing applications with lumpy cams and extra strong valve springs, yes they problematic.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2015, 10:10:47 am »
Are these tensioners really critical on these bikes? I just removed OEM tensioners from an engine which had 72.000km on it... and it hardened and was worn only a little. Mostly it was hardening from age..
I installed new oem's back into my turbo engine... also the standard camchain (as I have also the standard camshaft and springs).

Perhaps if you have tough valve springs and a big camshaft it would make sense, otherwise I'm a bit in doubt to be honest..

The way a turbo spools up I wouldn't hesitate using a heavy duty cam chain, I use them anyway, any improvement on the old technology is good, same with the tensioner, get some of those little pieces of the wheel in an oil gallery and kiss your hipo engine goodbye....

I've installed a heavy duty cam chain because the original is unknown and old, the new one is new and stronger AND the HD one cost $30 vs double that for a new stock one. This is not a difficult decision.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline livefast_dieold

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2015, 10:26:53 am »
Are these tensioners really critical on these bikes? I just removed OEM tensioners from an engine which had 72.000km on it... and it hardened and was worn only a little. Mostly it was hardening from age..
I installed new oem's back into my turbo engine... also the standard camchain (as I have also the standard camshaft and springs).

Perhaps if you have tough valve springs and a big camshaft it would make sense, otherwise I'm a bit in doubt to be honest..

The way a turbo spools up I wouldn't hesitate using a heavy duty cam chain, I use them anyway, any improvement on the old technology is good, same with the tensioner, get some of those little pieces of the wheel in an oil gallery and kiss your hipo engine goodbye....

Exactly what happened to me, and the chain tensioner was basically brand new!

Offline Ilja

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2015, 05:34:54 am »
Are these tensioners really critical on these bikes? I just removed OEM tensioners from an engine which had 72.000km on it... and it hardened and was worn only a little. Mostly it was hardening from age..
I installed new oem's back into my turbo engine... also the standard camchain (as I have also the standard camshaft and springs).

Perhaps if you have tough valve springs and a big camshaft it would make sense, otherwise I'm a bit in doubt to be honest..

The way a turbo spools up I wouldn't hesitate using a heavy duty cam chain, I use them anyway, any improvement on the old technology is good, same with the tensioner, get some of those little pieces of the wheel in an oil gallery and kiss your hipo engine goodbye....

I've installed a heavy duty cam chain because the original is unknown and old, the new one is new and stronger AND the HD one cost $30 vs double that for a new stock one. This is not a difficult decision.

$30 ??? Where did you get it?
I only found the HD chains for 99$ and the non-HD for $45 or something. So I just purchased this replacement kit from a guy in Germany with new OEM chain+new rollers. :-)

About the Primary's, yes I have seen them on ebay... but they are 250 euro or something. I figured first test-drive the turbo engine for a while and see how everything holds and works out, and then upgrade if necessary. The primary chains are already very loose at this point, could move them up and down a few cm.. so you can hear the engine rattle a bit at idle.  :-)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 05:36:35 am by Ilja »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2015, 05:43:30 am »
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2015, 05:46:29 am »
There is absolutely zero difference with clutch pulled or not.

70...........with tranny in neutral...........check sound with clutch pulled............the sound difference could be stretched primary chains and / or a worn primary tensioner or clutch basket.

Offline teebee67

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2015, 07:49:58 am »
That Tsubaki HD camchain is about the best you can get (in my opinion).
I'm only old on the outside.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2015, 09:09:34 am »
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline bwaller

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2015, 12:56:37 pm »
I've mentioned before you might want to stock up on the Tsubaki HD chains. My understanding is they will cease production of these. Once the stock is used up that`s it. DID still makes OEM chains.

Offline gschuld

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2015, 01:40:59 pm »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2015, 02:57:06 pm »
Heavy duty cam chain  $42.95  ;)

http://www.speedmotoco.com/product-p/22-25-03.htm

I found mine on Amazon.com for $30.


That was just for comparison, I googled it and that was the first one on the list... ;)

Might have to stock up for $30 bucks....thanks... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Ilja

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2015, 01:54:36 pm »
Damn, I need to find one too then.... they are 85 euro over here in europe!
Then again, I need to pull the engine to change it out.. didn't dare to cut the frame with the added boost power...  ;)
I'll buy one and switch it out when the engine grenades...if it will ever do so ;D

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2015, 02:33:27 pm »
never tried but heard that some people around here are using heavy duty kart racing chains. worth checking out, those things are made to take some hammering transmitting power directly from engine to rear axles....

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2015, 04:57:58 pm »
Here's a couple of kart chains, Bill
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 05:24:39 pm by Bill/BentON Racing »
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2015, 05:26:15 pm »
Here's a couple of kart chains, Bill

These would be used for primary chains I imagine...?
750 K2 1000cc
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2015, 06:01:56 pm »
Not for long!! ;D Cam chains my man! Replace without splitting cases and rails cut, do it in frame. ;D, Bill
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2015, 06:34:30 pm »
Not for long!! ;D Cam chains my man! Replace without splitting cases and rails cut, do it in frame. ;D, Bill

How much stronger than the Hipo cam chains available now...?
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2015, 09:09:05 pm »
Mick, cart drive chains used for primary replacement I believe. My bad, Bill These were cart cam chains used by racers back in  the day with a master link. Bill
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2015, 12:57:08 am »
Mick, cart drive chains used for primary replacement I believe. My bad, Bill These were cart cam chains used by racers back in  the day with a master link. Bill

Thanks for clarifying Bill... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2015, 08:20:32 am »
I have a friend that recently cleaned his closet (drool) of spare CB750 parts.......custom sleeves from L.A.SLEEVES and D.I.D. RACING CAM CHAINS meant for professional builders. I noticed the cam-chains have seamless rollers and are 'BUSHED' for minimal friction and very little side-flex.

 

 



My friend told me the chains came directly from DID at a minimum quantity of 10-units...............I only have 2-units...........and plan to use them in future builds.
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Offline Lucky K0

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2015, 11:20:23 am »
The Kenosha Kid (ebay name) that sells the bronze swing arm bushings has some new/old DID 750 cam chains on right now for $28 plus shipping... I think he had 10 left p/n DID 219T-94LE...

Supposed to work with the CB750K 69-78
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Offline Kickstart

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2016, 07:17:21 am »
Just reading this thread now (as I recently heard about the Tsubaki HD cam chain no longer being available for the 750's)...

I really like the options for the needle bearing/roller upgrades from Yoshimura, Over Racing, and cappellinimoto posted above, but I have a question about this design:

I thought the original purpose of the slipper style tensioner was to reduce the curve radius the cam chain traveled through, to prevent oil from being flung off at high RPMs.  Wouldn't the upgraded needle/roller bearing wheels still have this same design issue?

Thanks,
Chris
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Offline slikwilli420

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Re: CycleX HiPo cam chain tensioner & primary chain tensioner
« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2016, 07:45:04 am »
Seems like prices are starting to rise on HD chains. I'm seeing $60-80 on most sites. I did find Camellia brand chains, listed as Tsubaki for $35, are they the same?
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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