Topic: Sold a used bike then disaster.

[Hondawggie]

Would like to know how yall handle a buyer who after buying your used machine comes up way short in being able to maintain the bike.

Sold a bike, guy drove it home, 1 hour on the freeway, called him the next day, he said the bike is fine.   

Then starts asking me to pay for things like carb clean, new battery, tune up.  *Two months* after he drove it home "with no problems."

I did the right thing to protect myself, sold it AS-IS with a Bill of Sale to that effect, told him the facts, it had been in storage for 4 years, I pulled it out of storage, put in a new battery, checked everything over, gears, brakes, lights, signals, tires, and rode it myself. 

I'm not at all concerned about any responsibility I have to ensuring in perpetuity the bike keeps running like that day he drove it home.

My question is this.  How do yall weed out buyers who are not really equipped, either emotionally or otherwise, to purchase a 22 year old used bike with 20k miles on it?

This is the first time I've had a very unreasonable buyer and I hate the feeling that the dude thinks I scammed him.  He actually wrote me an email today, months after the sale, and told me that I scammed him and I should pay for his tune up, new battery, carb clean, "the bike's been sitting in my garage all this time", yada yada.

I want a happy but *reasonable* customer.  How does one size up a buyer for whether they have reasonable expectations?  Because I wish I'd sold it to one of the other interested parties.

My first thought is "unless the buyer knows how to work on bikes, I'm not selling them my used bike."   

But that would cut out a lot of buyers who understand a used machine is much more of a risk than a new bike with a factory warranty and all new parts.

Me personally -- when I buy a used vehicle -- I know the risk.  Thing could fall apart tomorrow.  Some do.  I'm responsible enough to know that is on me.  I didn't have to buy it, and I have the chance to assess the bike before I pay for it.

I felt like replying to his 'you scammer!' email by pointing out that even if you buy a new bike, neither the dealer nor the manufacturer will pay for tune ups, carb cleans, etc.

So what are some 'tricks of the trade' to weeding out unreasonable buyers?  I hate the idea someone thinks I scammed them.

[faux fiddy]

It's tough when you  give a #$%*e.

[martin99]

It's called buyer's remorse over here. When you buy something like a car or bike, and then for whatever reason regret buying it. I'll bet the condition won't be the real issue - more like his ol' lady's giving him a hard time for buying it, there's an unexpected expense and he needs the money quick, or he's just realised biking ain't for him. Maybe he's completely aware that a 22yr old bike has maintenance costs, but he only got permission to buy it from his wife by telling her it would be zero-maintenance and wouldn't need a penny spending on it. Could be all sorts of reasons. So much easier to blame someone else than admit to yourself you've fcuked up, and by blaming you he just might be deflecting some flack a little. Who knows?

I've had this too. I've sold more bikes than I can remember over the years and can count the problems I've had on one hand. If there has been a problem and it looks like it could get difficult, I've just taken the bike back, refunded their money and sold it to someone else. I can't be arsed with the hassle. Not that I'm suggesting you give him his money back after two months - who knows what he's managed to fcuk up by now - no, I'd be ignoring him at this point and getting on with something else. Like you, I would never knowingly sell a bike that is unsafe, and I am careful to point out any issues that I am aware of. Maybe this fella will learn from whatever hole he's dug for himself in buying your bike, and hopefully he'll think twice before creating this situation again.

You can cover most eventualities, but you can never account for human nature

 

[trueblue]

I had one like this quite a number of years ago with a car I sold, but he was told real quick that he had bought the car as is where is and he could quite politely go and root his boot.  He carried on like a pork chop for a bit and was going to sue me etc etc, but he didn't have a leg to stand on.  At the end of the day he thought he could put one over me because at the time I was only in my early 20's. 

[Retro Rocket]

Its great that you feel like you do but, there are times when one has to direct such people to go have sex with themselves  {clean version}...This also has the added effect of making you feel better...

[ekpent]

Maybe he is trying to scam you   

[greenjeans]

I had a situation recently where the buyer loved it took it home and then lost his job about 2 weeks later.
He didn't tell me about the job until later.   Anyway, he called me up asking all kinds of questions like he was sold a crap leaky bike and wanted to know if I would take it back.   I just told him I wasn't in a position to buy it back and to bring it by so I could take a look at it.  I knew the bike was tip-top becasue it had been my rider for about a year before I sold it to him.  Basically, a turn signal flasher was acting strange and he had loosend the neutal wire connection when he took the shifter cover off to polish up.  While he had the shifter cover off, he forgot to put the gasket back in.  Consequently, he was leaking oil all over creation and was trying to blame that on me.  He called a few more times but never showed up to take me up on my offer to help.  I noticed that he had an add on CL badmouthing the PO (me).  In the add, he mentioned his job.  I finally started getting tired of his crap so I told him to either bring it by or never contact me again (along with some other choice words)
To my suprise, he showed up.  I swapped a turn signal flasher out, took the shifter cover off, gave him an extra gasket that I had, tightened the connection to the neutral wire and topped him off with oil - all at my expense which really wasn't bad.  I then gave him a bit of a lecture on how to be a man etc. etc. and even helped him post a new CL add.  He was then able to sell the bike pretty easily.   He never really thanked me.

In the past, I have passed on selling bikes to people that I don't think are right for them, or that I don't think can properly care for them.   I typically offer to do their maintenance when necessary so they don't have to go to stealerships, if nothing else to kinda keep tabs on the bikes. 

Buyers remorse is hard to deal with.  Dudes with #$%*y wives are even tougher to deal with.   I just can't figure out the thought process of these ding-dongs. 

[flybox1]

Again, be very clear to him you sold it As-Is, then email him a copy of the shop manual and ask him to do exactly what Retro mentioned 
Post up a picture of the bike in question, so we'll recognize it if he shows up here.
He will need to be on his best behavior.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Sounds like you sold a bike to a garden variety a-hole that wants to make their problem YOURS. You were truthful in your advertising, posted AS-IS, probably let him know since it was an older bike it would have leaks, etc.
Unfortunately, too many of these a-holes suck up oxygen on this planet and don't want to take responsibility for anything and want to palm their problems off to you.

Tell him you did your due diligence as an owner and he needs to do the same.

[BobbyR]

You sold your bike to a person who wants something for nothing and has been getting away with it.

I would ignore them and go on with your life. The next time sell the bike as "parts" on the bill of sale.

[Hondawggie]

The Buyer's remorse may be correct. What I noticed is, he's not saying "the engine blew up" or "the frame cracked" or "the wiring harness lit up and burned".  He just wants me to buy him a tune-up. I emailed him back and basically said "if you don't like the bike, sell it."   I pointed out that he could easily recover his purchase price because I sold it at a low price.

You always put yourself in that buyer's shoes, no one sells a bike because they want their buyer to be unhappy.  I've been a business owner for 22 years and you always want your customers to be content.  Then again waiting two months after buying the bike to call me a scammer was a mistake on his part. 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Tell him it was sold 'as is' which he knew and if he keeps pestering you tell him to '#$%* off'. As long as you didn't lie to him you should feel no guilt and you owe him nothing more.

[Hondawggie]

Tell him it was sold 'as is' which he knew and if he keeps pestering you tell him to '#$%* off'. As long as you didn't lie to him you should feel no guilt and you owe him nothing more.

 

Good point.  It's not from guilt, it's from wanting your customer to be content.  I've stayed in my business for 22 years, not motorcycle related btw, because I try to make the customer happy.  As a businessperson you always allow a customer to be a bit unreasonable if they're so inclined -- *to a point*.  You can't make everyone happy, but hey you have to try.    You really do.

But there have to be some limits to that.  I've had lots of unreasonable customers in my regular business and it can be easier, and a lot less stressful, to just reverse the transaction for them, no harm no foul type of attitude you show them at that time also.  It's just good business.   Good for them, less stressful for me.  But two months, no.  That's on him I think.

I would have given him his money back the first few days after the purchase if he'd brought it back and then just resold it.   I did not tell him that at the time of purchase but in the back of my mind as he rode off,  I knew I'd take the bike back if he changed his mind, I could easily just resell it if he didn't like it.  I would have done that if he had buyer's remorse, or didn't like the gas mileage it was getting, or thought it was too slow/too fast/too heavy whatever.  Hell, I might have seen fit to allow the dude an entire week to figure out riding a street bike wasn't for him.  This was his first street bike, he had experience on dirt bikes only.

I've sold bikes to first-time owners before and never had this issue, but what I'm going to do in the future, when a prospective buyer discloses they've never owned a street bike before,  I'm going to tell them about this very incident.   Maybe they'll think twice and save me the grief, "you get the bike home, couple months go buy, you change your mind but too late the money's spent -- are you *sure* you want to do this?  Maybe you should rent a bike for a week and drive it everyday, see if you like it first."

Because that's what I'm looking for -- a strategy to prevent this from happening again.

I actually do that in my regular business.  I'm a landlord.  Example -- if a prospective tenant, during the showing of the apartment and the property, says "looks like parking might be a little tight",   I immediately think of all the complainers over the years about parking and try to talk them out of renting from me.  That's the way I do it.  Get rid of them before they become unhappy and make you miserable.

But he waited two months and sent me an email calling me a scammer, that is not a way to get people on your side, kind of chaps my hide.   He can just sell the dang thing.  Maybe he doesn't feel safe riding a 750 on the streets in San Francisco.

[eigenvector]

It's tough when you  give a #$%*e.

Some people have made some good comments, but ultimately I think this tends to sum it up nicely.

[BobbyR]

Tell him it was sold 'as is' which he knew and if he keeps pestering you tell him to '#$%* off'. As long as you didn't lie to him you should feel no guilt and you owe him nothing more.

 

Good point.  It's not from guilt, it's from wanting your customer to be content.  I've stayed in my business for 22 years, not motorcycle related btw, because I try to make the customer happy.  As a businessperson you always allow a customer to be a bit unreasonable if they're so inclined -- *to a point*.  You can't make everyone happy, but hey you have to try.    You really do.

But there have to be some limits to that.  I've had lots of unreasonable customers in my regular business and it can be easier, and a lot less stressful, to just reverse the transaction for them, no harm no foul type of attitude you show them at that time also.  It's just good business.   Good for them, less stressful for me.  But two months, no.  That's on him I think.

I would have given him his money back the first few days after the purchase if he'd brought it back and then just resold it.   I did not tell him that at the time of purchase but in the back of my mind as he rode off,  I knew I'd take the bike back if he changed his mind, I could easily just resell it if he didn't like it.  I would have done that if he had buyer's remorse, or didn't like the gas mileage it was getting, or thought it was too slow/too fast/too heavy whatever.  Hell, I might have seen fit to allow the dude an entire week to figure out riding a street bike wasn't for him.  This was his first street bike, he had experience on dirt bikes only.

I've sold bikes to first-time owners before and never had this issue, but what I'm going to do in the future, when a prospective buyer discloses they've never owned a street bike before,  I'm going to tell them about this very incident.   Maybe they'll think twice and save me the grief, "you get the bike home, couple months go buy, you change your mind but too late the money's spent -- are you *sure* you want to do this?  Maybe you should rent a bike for a week and drive it everyday, see if you like it first."

Because that's what I'm looking for -- a strategy to prevent this from happening again.

I actually do that in my regular business.  I'm a landlord.  Example -- if a prospective tenant, during the showing of the apartment and the property, says "looks like parking might be a little tight",   I immediately think of all the complainers over the years about parking and try to talk them out of renting from me.  That's the way I do it.  Get rid of them before they become unhappy and make you miserable.

But he waited two months and sent me an email calling me a scammer, that is not a way to get people on your side, kind of chaps my hide.   He can just sell the dang thing.  Maybe he doesn't feel safe riding a 750 on the streets in San Francisco.

You seem to be an ethical man and you have an unethical man. Think of it as a lesson and just move on.

[flatlander]

the guy is completely unreasonable with his expectation of returning it after 2 months. over here, if you buy something used from an individual, it's usually "as is" and once you agree to buy it and put down the money it's yours with warts and all. there's no implicit warranty or such thing.

after 2 months if you reverse the deal you take a considerable risk. if you want you could offer him to buy it back for a price that you think is reasonable considering what you may need to put into the bike after it spent this much time with this idiot. but that would probably lead to more moaning and complaining you'd have to put up with. probably the easiest thing is a clean cut - a final "no" then move on, and no more answers to his whining.

[72 yellow]

Probably does the same thing with everything he buys.  Need a suit for a special occasion, buy it them return it after, etc.  Professional A-hole.

[Stev-o]

the guy is completely unreasonable with his expectation of returning it after 2 months. over here, if you buy something used from an individual, it's usually "as is" and once you agree to buy it and put down the money it's yours with warts and all. there's no implicit warranty or such thing.

It's the same here when buying any vehicle, it is as-is unless a warranty is offered.
On used cars at dealers, there is a sheet attached to the window that clearly shows if the car has a warranty.

[Hondawggie]

I've moved on from feeling responsible for my old bike.   It's probably natural that if you owned a vehicle, sell it and the buyer raises issues, it's probably normal to be concerned about it, you rode the bike, you used to own it. 

There's nothing wrong with it.  It's only got 23k miles.   

I have diagnosed what happened.   He said he had not ridden it much and that  "its needs a tune up, a new battery and the carbs cleaned."

TRANSLATION:  "I let the bike sit for a while, did not put a battery maintainer on it,  when I started it, it was running rough, and my neighbor helping me 'fix' the bike:

- "checked the battery and found the voltage is low and decided it needs a new battery"

- "heard the bike running rough and told me it needs a tune up and a carb clean"


The buyer said he used to ride dirt bikes, which get thrashed a lot and (usually) you end up learning how to wrench on a bike.  I just assumed that applied in his case.

But not this guy.  I should have asked him more questions.   I guess I take all my knowledge about keeping bikes running for granted and didn't stop to think about pitfalls for a guy who was buying his first street bike.

He is 100% clueless about street bikes, I'd wager.   Most of us know that when a battery gets low, the bike becomes hard to start and runs rough if it does start.

The dang bike is fine.  All he needs to do is charge the dang battery.

"The scammer who sold the bike" is not about to tell him that, though.
23k miles the bike is FINE the guy is freaking clueless.

Too bad the neighbor helping him with my old ride doesn't know motorcycles any better than the buyer, or he'd never have sent that dang email and made me feel bad about myself.

Next time I'm asking more questions of the buyer, "do you have someone you can reach out to who knows about motorcycles, such as *an online forum* or a relative,  to help you with any issues that arise.

[vfourfreak]

Tell him, politely, to go get himself a classical education.

That way, sometime in the future, the knob will understand the meaning of "Caveat emptor". This concept has been around since Roman days, so 2000 years give or take.

The fact that you care speaks volumes about your integrity.

Kev