Author Topic: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine  (Read 127739 times)

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Offline bwaller

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #225 on: October 06, 2015, 04:21:46 AM »
It sounds like you'll have a good engine to play with Don. There are subtle improvements including primary chain tension and the clutch speed. That cam is a good choice. I'm sure you'll be pleased with this exhaust too.....good pedigree!

I don't know Lang Hindle personally but followed his race career years ago. It just so happens that the US/Phillip Island race bike project Denis Curtis had been working on involved Hindle for exhausts. Denis was thrilled with how Lang took this on and the professionalism sounds top shelf. Hindle built CB750 pipes previously, and Kemp has done a good thing with these new SOHC exhausts, good on him. 

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #226 on: October 06, 2015, 08:35:42 AM »
I think Jim may have "found" the exhaust system for this project -- Hindle 4-2-1 in stainless.

I'm looking forward to mounting one up on the Interceptor too Don and like Brent said, it comes from good pedigree. I just wish I had the bottom end you've got to push things over the top.   ;D

I like the fact that a SOHC4 member (Kemp) is involved in these too.
Great guy!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 08:40:31 AM by FunJimmy »
You never see a motorcycle parked outside of a psychiatrist's office!

CB550 Cafe Interceptor a Gentlemans Roadster
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=27159.0

Offline brandEn

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #227 on: October 06, 2015, 08:38:12 AM »
Those Hindles look sweet! I would like to try one on my K4 but it looks like filter access won't work.

Jim, you need a 750......

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #228 on: October 06, 2015, 09:14:36 AM »
Those Hindles look sweet! I would like to try one on my K4 but it looks like filter access won't work.

Jim, you need a 750......
That's why I have both -- or rather why I have this project!!

I think Jim may have "found" the exhaust system for this project -- Hindle 4-2-1 in stainless.

I'm looking forward to mounting one up on the Interceptor too Don and like Brent said, it comes from good pedigree. I just wish I had the bottom end you've got to push things over the top.   ;D

I like the fact that a SOHC4 member (Kemp) is involved in these too.
Great guy!

Jim: I didn't know Kemp was a member.  The frame brace looks like a nice piece, too.  The curved cut-outs look like they avoid the filter, too. 

The exhaust has many great things going for it.  Pedigree, lighter weight, great materials and construction, and it even allows for a center stand.

Kemp says that the 12" is more quiet than the MotoGP system, but I assume he is talking about the non-baffled pipe.  I don't want to wake the whole neighborhood.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline CBGhia

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #229 on: October 06, 2015, 09:24:15 AM »
I think Jim may have "found" the exhaust system for this project -- Hindle 4-2-1 in stainless.  The quality looks nice in the pictures and produces 54 hp and 35 ft/lbs torque at the rear wheel with a stock, used 650 motor.  I imagine it will make more with the 674cc kit and 126-20 cam.

http://www.ripplerockracers.com/product/honda-cb650-hindle-stainless-steel-exhaust-fits-1979-82/

I would be curious to know what that same bike tested at on the same dyno with a stock exhaust to see the comparison.  They said stock engine, but there are obviously pods. 
CB550 Cafe, GL1000, Buell Ulysses
if you dont trial spin the camshaft in the head and cover you are a novice,with no natural mechanical appitude,destined for destruction.
"The cleaner the dipstick, the closer to God." -Rev. Horton Heat
“Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.”  - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline bwaller

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #230 on: October 06, 2015, 09:52:59 AM »
It is typical for Lang Hindle to have a dyno on the premises. The good builders know what works but the dyno's aren't there for decoration.  ;D Kemp might not know that engine's output because there may not have been a stock exhaust system available, too bad. We know numbers produced & shared on this forum for stock engines are always pretty similar, 36-38RWHP with the odd really good one a bit higher.

The filters can be changed with this exhaust.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #231 on: October 06, 2015, 11:00:24 AM »
A 5-6 rwhp gain is nice.  A 9 lb. exhaust is nice, too.  That's much lighter than stock and lighter than the Yosh 4-1 replicas out there.

I just ordered the 12" Reverse Megaphone model -- $637.60 CAN or $488 USD SHIPPED!!  That's an outstanding value!

Along with the engine mods (674cc, Megacycle 126-20, headwork), this will increase performance and also reduce weight!

1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #232 on: October 06, 2015, 11:27:52 AM »
Good news.  Buzz/Dynoman is sending me a replacement ring set out right away, so the engine build will not be stalled long.

I got the replacement ringset for Piston #1 yesterday. (Thanks, Buzz!!)

The Megacycle 126-20 cam is resting and awaiting deployment!  A putty test will be required to make sure there is sufficient valve-to-piston clearance.

1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #233 on: October 06, 2015, 11:35:31 AM »
Some pictures of the Hindle CB650 Stainless Exhaust (with the Classic exhaust tip as opposed to the reverse megaphone).  The design allows for removal of the oil filter while keeping the header on, and for retention of the center stand.

cb650_bike_zpshza6vhcs by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

cb650_hd_zpsz5bzcjrt by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

cb650_hm_zpsopaqzq8q by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr]

cb650_m_h_zps7sqjyyam by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

cb650_pretty_zpsj7ueengy by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

Here's the reverse megaphone muffler

9795_zps5ukjshro by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 11:16:53 AM by SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan »
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #234 on: October 06, 2015, 11:46:13 AM »
Some pictures of the Hindle CB650 Stainless Exhaust (with the Classic exhaust tip as opposed to the reverse megaphone).  The design allows for removal of the oil filter while keeping the header on, and for retention of the center stand.











Here's the reverse megaphone muffler



I like when you can see welding spots. Beautiful Stainless look!

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #235 on: October 06, 2015, 11:54:24 AM »
I just ordered the 12" Reverse Megaphone model -- $637.60 CAN or $488 USD SHIPPED!!  That's an outstanding value!

I know. It's a crazy good deal. I ordered the billet frame brace too.

Brent. The primary tube diameter is 1  1/2 inch. This diameter is what Hindle
prefers for the SOHC4 models.
You never see a motorcycle parked outside of a psychiatrist's office!

CB550 Cafe Interceptor a Gentlemans Roadster
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=27159.0

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #236 on: October 06, 2015, 12:08:53 PM »
I just ordered the 12" Reverse Megaphone model -- $637.60 CAN or $488 USD SHIPPED!!  That's an outstanding value!

I know. It's a crazy good deal. I ordered the billet frame brace too.

Brent. The primary tube diameter is 1  1/2 inch. This diameter is what Hindle
prefers for the SOHC4 models.

The frame brace is a nice piece of design, too.  Bolt in frame bracing and it does not interfere with the oil filter. 

Frame-Brace-5_zpsjhfgqyzg by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr

Frame-Brace_zps37nqudqy by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 11:19:24 AM by SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan »
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Bigsam302

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #237 on: October 06, 2015, 12:12:49 PM »
Don,

I really like that frame brace.  I wanted to get it when I was shopping for parts, but they don't make it for the 750.  That's why I ended up having a bar welded in the same location instead.

Sam
1976 CB750F (915cc) Super Sport: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=142578.0

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #238 on: October 06, 2015, 01:47:02 PM »
I am debating on whether to weld a cross-member for this build or use that brace.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #239 on: October 06, 2015, 01:52:32 PM »
Don,

I really like that frame brace.  I wanted to get it when I was shopping for parts, but they don't make it for the 750.  That's why I ended up having a bar welded in the same location instead.

Sam

Could probably come up with something for the 750, but you might have to weld in a couple of bungs on the left side since there aren't holes there like on a 500/550 frame.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #240 on: October 06, 2015, 02:08:49 PM »
Don,

I really like that frame brace.  I wanted to get it when I was shopping for parts, but they don't make it for the 750.  That's why I ended up having a bar welded in the same location instead.

Sam

Could probably come up with something for the 750, but you might have to weld in a couple of bungs on the left side since there aren't holes there like on a 500/550 frame.

That might not be a bad idea for the 750!
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Bootsey

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #241 on: October 06, 2015, 03:58:51 PM »
Looks like you're putting together the makings of one killer bike here CB750!

Are the 550's thought to have significant amounts of flex in the frame at the front motor mounts, or is the brace as much for looks as it is for additional bracing?

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #242 on: October 06, 2015, 04:08:29 PM »
Looks like you're putting together the makings of one killer bike here CB750!

Are the 550's thought to have significant amounts of flex in the frame at the front motor mounts, or is the brace as much for looks as it is for additional bracing?

The 550/750/650s all have abundant flex in the tube steel frames.  The factory welds are not the best.  Some flex is good. 

Many folks who choose to reinforce their frames add gussets to the triangular points where the tubes meet each other, frame rails or the head stock.  Cross brace welds are also used to prevent frame twist, especially when a cross-member is removed.

Some frequent areas for gusseting/cross-members
Framegussets_zps50735415 by Donald Leonhardt, on Flickr
Additional gusset/bracing examples





I have seen welded cross-members on the front of the frame between the downtubes but this billet brace is the first bolt in brace I have seen offered as a turnkey, no weld solution.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 11:20:05 AM by SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan »
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #243 on: October 06, 2015, 04:29:19 PM »
Maybe I will say something stupid... But I think that engine is stressed member of chassis(I am talking about cb750 but it is same for 550 650...). Not completely like in modern bikes but... Front of the engine is acting like the bracing for the front part of the frame.


Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #244 on: October 06, 2015, 05:16:24 PM »
This might be why most "X" bracing that I have seen is on the rear of the triangle, where there are no engine mounts traversing the tubes.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #245 on: October 06, 2015, 05:59:00 PM »
The biggest gain in chassis stiffness would be achieved if you could brace engine head(somewhere in the line of carb mounting position) and frame in the line of airbox mounting holes... And engine head in the line of exhaust openings and frame at the neck. That would crete 3d boxed structure. But I am not sure if engine head/studs/etc can handle that without leaking oil...


This might be why most "X" bracing that I have seen is on the rear of the triangle, where there are no engine mounts traversing the tubes.
I speculate that the X in the rear is mostly to attend to the driveline stress from the swingarm/sprockets and rear suspension. Theres lots of stress forces occurring right thru there, and that X and other gussets probably make huge differences. I've been trying to arrange time with a local guy that builds race frames (he made my 550 hoop) to discuss my 500 frame. I'll be interested in his input on what modifications I should add given the subframe change.

I think you are on good path of thinking. I can see some benefits from bracing back of frame...




Offline bwaller

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #246 on: October 06, 2015, 06:47:16 PM »
The engine really can't be considered a stressed member without ream fitting larger mounting bolts. The original bolts are just too sloppy. Both turboguzzi designed a "head steady" for his CB500 racer and friends do the same with their CR750. However it's the pressed steel surround of the steering head that would be best supported and that isn't easily done.

The swingarm pivot area is another spot that is often stiffened. Originally I used a bolt in alloy brace here using high grade splined bolts plus welded braces underneath.




As far as welding in braces. They should be welded on the outside of the tube not the middle, and a saddle style brace is best. Note where the welds start & end, don't weld solid.




Where Honda joined the front downtubes they made three spot welds. That area can be welded down the joints.

Kemp's bolt in brace in the front is a good idea.

Most often all we're doing is adding weight as the frames are quite adequate as is. The Italian 500 class champ that races a CB500 has no frame bracing at all. Makes you wonder!  ;)

Hope you don't mind Don.

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #247 on: October 06, 2015, 09:59:09 PM »
I don't mind at all, Brent.  That's one of the perks of the forum -- all the free intel!

1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #248 on: October 06, 2015, 10:04:49 PM »
So a little interlude.  I purchased a 1979 CB650 head.







It cleaned up well.





I am planning on sending this one to Mike Rieck for some head work.  The advantage of the 1979-1980 heads are that the intake spacing matches to CB750 carburetors; the 1981-1982 heads do NOT.

Depending on when I can get the turnaround from Mike, I may install the 1979 head from the get go.  If the wait is longer and the bike is otherwise ready, I can run the 1981 head and Harisuluv (James Hale) rebuilt stock CV carburetors.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: The Hot Mess - 1975 CB550F1 Frame/1981 CB650 Engine
« Reply #249 on: October 07, 2015, 12:58:55 AM »
When clean (the CV has some tiny passages) the CV carbs are nice carbs, but they might not be as tunable as the early carb design. With pressed in jet for one of the main jets it isn't a trivial task. The ones with screwed in jets everywhere are easier.
So, with significant work on the motor you need a design people understand and know how to tune. Most on this board don't have that knowledge as it is a different animal with constant velocity carbs.
CRs, stock carbs and Mikunis they are familiar with... but unless they have had CVs before there is a learning curve.

Going to go with stage 2 on the head work by Mike?

David
David- back in the desert SW!