Author Topic: 1972 Honda CB 500  (Read 5976 times)

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Offline honder

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1972 Honda CB 500
« on: August 26, 2015, 12:13:54 PM »
About a month ago now I picked up a '72 CB500 with the intention of breathing a bit of life back into it and getting it back on the road. It had spent a fair bit of time outside and looks like it likely was dropped on the side once or twice (right side crankcase had a chunk missing), so I figured I had my work cut out.

Offline honder

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Before teardown
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 12:17:11 PM »
Before teardown

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2015, 07:21:07 PM »
On the initial going over, the compression came in at between 100-120psi, and 125-135psi with a few drops of oil in each of the cylinders.  The PO also mentioned that before the bike began its sit, the system wasn't charging as it once did.
With that my initial list of things that needed attention was-
- Teardown engine completely and transfer the transmission/ internal components into a used '71 CB500 crankcase I had picked up
- Walnut blast frame/rims/fuel tank/crankcase/cylinder/head
- Replace the piston rings and all new seals and gaskets
- Check generator and replace rotor/stator as needed/new wiring harness
- Repaint frame/rims/tank



Offline honder

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1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 07:01:33 PM »
The engine is now torn down and the crank case halves split. After getting into the transmission I have decided to replace both the cam chain and main drive chain, as well as any bearings that need attention.
I am debating whether or not to walnut blast the engine components to get them clean, or use some other method. I am concerned that the walnut blasting might do more harm than good, any thoughts?


Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 07:03:22 PM »
Tear down

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2015, 07:39:03 PM »
Any time you blast engine components with media, you will need to take special care to soak and rinse them thoroughly (MULTIPLE TIMES) and blast the passages with compressed air to make sure no grit/media or stuff blasted off gets lodge in oil passageways.  Otherwise, you concern over a pretty metal surface (to paint or polish) will be replaced by the need to completely tear down and repair or REPLACE your motor. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2015, 09:20:11 PM »
ok great, thanks for the heads up. Would soda blasting be a better choice and decrease the chance of some media being left over after a thorough cleaning and wreaking havoc? Or perhaps just giving a good cleaning using elbow grease to do the job?

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2015, 10:58:08 PM »
I would take a look at vapor blasting.  Our very own Nils aka Noblehops has a new business RestoCycle that specializes in vapor blasting.  The results are amazing and it is not abrasive nor does it create blockage.  I'm keeping it in mind for future projects of mine.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150819.0.html
https://www.facebook.com/RestoCycleLLC
nils@restocycle.com

I just saw that you are in Canada.  You may want to see if there is a local outfit that can vapor blast.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2015, 08:16:03 AM »
I looked around town here and found a guy who does dry ice blasting who has restored a few motorcycles himself. Looks like it'll come out to about the same cost as soda blasting, but leaves nothing behind as the CO2 vaporizes on impact. Thanks for the idea 750. Wouldn't have even known such a thing existed.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 08:19:46 AM by honder »

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 08:08:11 AM »
I got the crankcase dry ice blasted and while there were a few spots of gummed on oil that will have to be cleaned, everything came out well. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance.

I have been measuring and deciding what parts need replacing and am stuck on the cam shaft, specifically the intake lobes.
The wear limit is stated as being 35.85mm in the cylmer and service manual, though the standard value is 34.93-34.97mm.
None of the intake cams are anywhere near 35.85, but they are all around the 34.93 standard value, which leads me to believe that the serviceable limit of 35.85mm is a typo and it should be 34.85? Anyone else run across this and come up with an answer?

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2015, 08:47:43 AM »
I got the crankcase dry ice blasted and while there were a few spots of gummed on oil that will have to be cleaned, everything came out well. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance.

I have been measuring and deciding what parts need replacing and am stuck on the cam shaft, specifically the intake lobes.
The wear limit is stated as being 35.85mm in the cylmer and service manual, though the standard value is 34.93-34.97mm.
None of the intake cams are anywhere near 35.85, but they are all around the 34.93 standard value, which leads me to believe that the serviceable limit of 35.85mm is a typo and it should be 34.85? Anyone else run across this and come up with an answer?

PM Hondaman
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2015, 01:55:05 PM »
Thanks 750! 

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2016, 06:49:41 AM »
As seems to be the case for a number of other builds that I have have the pleasure to read through, a number of life events had conspired to put the 500 rebuild on hold. I had made decent progress dismantling nearly the whole bike when the drop in the price of oil left me with a lot of free time due to a layoff, though also with little in the way of funds to do much with.
Over the same period we moved into a new house then started a new job (which fortunately helped out in the parts buying department). Now it feels as though things have started to settle down and I am finally getting back into making progress on the 500.
When I left off last fall I had just had the crankcases, cylinders, and head, dry ice blasted to remove the old paint and oil.
This proved mostly successful, but I don't believe it does quite the job of vapour blasting. Ultimately after an attempt and failure to paint the crankcases myself, I brought them into a local shop that does ceramic coating and the results were pretty amazing. Since I have had the entire engine ceramic coated, the frame modified by a local machine shop to shorten up the rear end, and had the frame powder coated. All the crankshaft bearings have been replaced, The head remachined, new valves, new valve springs, replaced a few rocker arms that had the beginning of some pitting, sourced out a decent condition camshaft and had it poly coated.

I am finding that even with all of the parts organized in bags and referencing parts lists, the shop manual and this forum, the task of putting together is a tad more challenging than taking apart. haha.



Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2016, 06:52:16 AM »
Ceramic coated crankcases  :D
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 06:58:12 AM by honder »

Offline calj737

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2016, 06:59:47 AM »
Looks lovely.
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'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2016, 07:04:28 AM »
Remachined head

Offline calj737

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2016, 07:05:56 AM »
If I could offer a bit of "life advice"? Stop spending so much on motorcycle parts, and pay your utility bills. Having ambient light is great, but having artificial light is really helpful too  ;D
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2016, 07:11:03 AM »
Haha,.. way ahead of you. I have started working more in the garage. I only need enough electricity to open the garage door, the issue of light is solved!

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2016, 07:56:19 AM »
Ceramic coating on an engine? That seems like a bad idea. CC's typically keep heat in, we want the heat to get out.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2016, 08:22:04 AM »
I had heard the same thing about ceramic coating vs powder coating or paint and chatted with the guys at the shop about which coating would work best. The engine shop I brought the cases into actually suggested ceramic coating, saying that it will run cooler than powder coating on account of the thickness that the coating is applied to. From what I understand, they apply ceramic to a thickness of 1.2 thousands of an inch, whereas powder coating is applied to about 5 thousands, which should allow ceramic to run cooler?
I guess that doesn't take into account the thermal conductivity of one versus the other,....  :o
So far I've come across a few situations with equally convincing and seemingly valid arguments on both sides leaving me wondering which way was best to proceed. As far as the ceramic vs powder coat is concerned I've decided that this will be an experiment as to how hot ceramic will run compared to other coatings,.. haha,.. I'll keep you posted as to how this experiment goes,....  :D

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2016, 08:25:14 AM »
Pre modified frame and seat

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2016, 08:26:29 AM »
Post modified frame

Offline honder

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2016, 08:28:21 AM »
Back from powder coating and front end and wheels installed

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2016, 09:55:54 AM »
Nice job with the engine cases.  Are you doing a simple hone and re-using the stock pistons or increasing displacement?
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: 1972 Honda CB 500
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2016, 01:55:42 PM »
Well, they're the pro's and I'm not. So I will take them at their word. They do look very good.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200