Author Topic: these two want it bad  (Read 1695 times)

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Offline jeffg

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Offline dbbrian350F

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Re: these to want it bad
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2015, 07:54:44 PM »
Wow what a battle! to bad one went down
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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2015, 09:29:49 PM »
That was a hell of a battle.

Much better than watching Nicolo Canepa push another rider's brake lever (and now that he's facing charges of assault, claiming it was an accident).

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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2015, 12:10:52 AM »
Accident my ass, I would be waiting for my shoulder to heal then I would belt the life out of that low life bastard,, Sorry folks but sokme people just need a good old fashioned flogging... >:(
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Offline simon#42

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2015, 01:20:50 AM »
thats why they all have a guard over the leaver now days .   i remember being at a Japanese championship round in the 90's and there was so much trouble race control called all the riders together
and told them they could only punch each other on the back straight ...... so the spectators couldn't see !

Offline demon78

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2015, 03:19:35 AM »
Jesus H I would think that he was trying to kill me and might wait for him with a 2 by 4 some dark and stormy night, that is dirty pool.
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2015, 07:59:28 AM »
Accident my ass, I would be waiting for my shoulder to heal then I would belt the life out of that low life bastard,, Sorry folks but sokme people just need a good old fashioned flogging... >:(

Canepa is full of bs. He only weaved this story because the video was released (2 years after the accident) and he was criminally charged. He deserves a career racing ban and a beat down.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline simon#42

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2015, 08:43:58 AM »
i doubt there will be a ban, this didnt happen at a race meeting so he will get away with that .
to be honest you see much worse every weekend at british race meetings , it is however done a little less obviously .

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2015, 09:45:31 AM »
i doubt there will be a ban, this didnt happen at a race meeting so he will get away with that .
to be honest you see much worse every weekend at british race meetings , it is however done a little less obviously .

I, too, doubt he will receive a ban.  I don't think he's facing any professional sanctions -- only the criminal charge in Italy.  I just think he deserves it.  It's one thing when this sort of thing actually is an accident.  It's another when it's an intentional act by a professional.  I think that if he gets convicted, Ducati will pull his contract, and he might have a problem getting another ride.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline simon#42

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2015, 02:35:10 PM »
i believe he intended to knock his brake leaver but not to cause him to crash , this was retribution for something that had happened earlier in the lap . young 125 riders were keen on this form of punishment , normally the bike just shakes violently . he was once very much the golden boy at ducati  , italians tend not to worry to much about this sort of thing .

Offline Johnie

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2015, 03:12:59 PM »
What am I missing here...looked to me like he was in the open and dumped it. The other bike was not near him coming off the curve.
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Offline eigenvector

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2015, 04:47:19 PM »
You're missing the other video clip posted a couple down.  The first vid wasn't related.

Have to say I was expecting the guy on the green bike to dump it, he was wobbling around on the track far more than the other guy.
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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2015, 04:54:07 PM »
i believe he intended to knock his brake leaver but not to cause him to crash , this was retribution for something that had happened earlier in the lap . young 125 riders were keen on this form of punishment , normally the bike just shakes violently . he was once very much the golden boy at ducati  , italians tend not to worry to much about this sort of thing .

Simon,

No disrespect, but punching another rider's brake lever with higher performance brakes (allowing for one-finger braking) is so freaking unsafe it has no business on the track, especially from a professional rider.  If the other rider was blocking him or cut him off, deal with it in the paddock, not by causing a crash that could gravely hurt someone.  As for Italians not worrying about this sort of thing, I think that all depends on who is doing the deed and who is the victim. 
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2015, 05:57:30 PM »
i believe he intended to knock his brake leaver but not to cause him to crash , this was retribution for something that had happened earlier in the lap . young 125 riders were keen on this form of punishment , normally the bike just shakes violently . he was once very much the golden boy at ducati  , italians tend not to worry to much about this sort of thing .

I hear what you are saying but he could have been killed, he was so close to being run over by the following bike, he did amazingly well to avoid going down himself. I don't know how they deal with things in Italy but, I once had an Italian guy go off his head at me for something that never happened, actually he was accusing my young 11 year old son of something that never happened, he started shoving me in the chest  so I politely and calmly removed his Ray Bans and knocked him out, never heard from him again.....
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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2015, 07:52:55 AM »
My guess is that this guy made a complaint and nobody took it seriously - until the track camera footage revealed his claim had merit. Up to that point, it was someone's wild accusation against a former Grand Prix rider and current WSB rider. They probably laughed at him until the video surfaced.  Why would a pro rider at that level even think of doing such a thing. Preposterous. Then, oh crap, he was telling the truth.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline simon#42

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2015, 10:34:30 AM »
the problem is if he wins his case he will sue for damages . every racing crash from that moment on will have to be reviewed to see who was to blame there will be no such thing as a racing incident . getting the necessary insurance to run a race meeting or track day will be nigh on impossible .
for this reason i hope he looses .


Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2015, 10:59:27 AM »
the problem is if he wins his case he will sue for damages . every racing crash from that moment on will have to be reviewed to see who was to blame there will be no such thing as a racing incident . getting the necessary insurance to run a race meeting or track day will be nigh on impossible .
for this reason i hope he looses .

With all due respect, bullocks!  Where do you see liability for the Misano Circuit, here, Simon?? 

1. There is no precedential value of an Italian criminal verdict given to other countries' courts. Do you really think an English or US court is going to give precedential value to an Italian criminal court in its civil litigation?

2.  Even more importantly, this should not have any effect on the insurers for track facilities.  All track day riders and racers waive their rights against the track as to foreseeable risk.  Intentional torts (such as assault and battery) are NOT reasonably foreseeable risks.  The facilities owners can still likely still get sued for extraordinarily unsafe conditions that are not apparent -- but that is not the case here. 

3.  This rider has every right to sue Canepa in a civil action for what he did.  It is foreseeable that a rider may crash and take you out, so that risk is assumed.  It is NEVER acceptable conduct for a rider to intentionally hurt another rider.  Justifiably, Canepa will likely be judged not only as a rider but as a seasoned professional.  The victim deserves to hit Canepa for punitive damages so that he is made an example of and so that it provides a deterrent value to other would-be criminals.  This sort of COMPLETELY UNSAFE and recklessly harmful conduct has NO PLACE on a race track.  Period.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 11:36:25 AM by CB750 Cafe Racer Fan »
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline simon#42

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2015, 11:49:04 AM »
1 i dont see liability for the circuit but i do for the track day organisers / race organisers

2 if he is successful other riders from other countries will also try there luck

3 canapa did not intentionally  injure another rider the injury was unintentional

 This sort of COMPLETELY UNSAFE and recklessly harmful conduct has NO PLACE on a race track.  Period.

you have never watched a race close enough , unsafe and reckless conduct happens at every corner its just more subtle  . watch rossi closely he is a master , braking half way round a corner . lifting riders that try to overtake , braking on the straight , moving riders off line entering corners . as max biaggi said motorcycle racing is not country dancing

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2015, 12:23:03 PM »
1 i dont see liability for the circuit but i do for the track day organisers / race organisers

2 if he is successful other riders from other countries will also try there luck

3 canapa did not intentionally  injure another rider the injury was unintentional

 This sort of COMPLETELY UNSAFE and recklessly harmful conduct has NO PLACE on a race track.  Period.

you have never watched a race close enough , unsafe and reckless conduct happens at every corner its just more subtle  . watch rossi closely he is a master , braking half way round a corner . lifting riders that try to overtake , braking on the straight , moving riders off line entering corners . as max biaggi said motorcycle racing is not country dancing

1.  Track day organizers and race organizers already get liability waivers as a normal business practice. No waiver, no riding.

2.  If the danger is that other riders who are intentionally taken out sue those intentional tortfeasors, so be it.  If you are warning of these riders suing the track day organizers and race organizers, see #1 above.

3.  Canepa intentionally punched the other rider's brake lever.  What followed -- the crash -- was proximately caused by Canepa's intentional act.  If you intentionally shoot someone without the intent to kill, it is still a homicide unless justified under other circumstances (self-defense, insanity, etc.).  The intent to harm is not the intent.  It is the intent to commit the act which has consequences that flow from it.  A more extreme example of this is the felony-murder rule: if one intentionally commits a felony (such as assault and battery, robbery, etc.) and someone dies (even a policeman trying to apprehend the perpetrator) it is murder. 

You seem to think that if you intentional punch someone in the nose, but don't intend to break their nose, then the absence of intent to injure is dispositive.  That is wrong in any court of law.

4.  I regularly watch roadracing (WSBK, AMA, MotoGP). I also have ridden my sportbikes at track days.  There is a difference between aggressive racing (witness clashes involving Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo) where there is contact, reckless racing where there is contact (see Jack Miller taking out Cal Crutchlow at Silverstone last weekend) and intentionally punching someone's front brake lever.  This is not an aggressive/accidental rub in the last lap (see Rossi, Marquez, etc.), Rossi cutting across the Corkscrew to edge out Stoner, Hayden rubbing Dovi at Indy forcing them to jump the curbing or even Biaggi forcing Rossi off the track into the dirt.  When race direction deems the move unsafe and reckless, the rider should be punished (as was Miller).  In what type of racing do you participate in where it is considered aggressive racing to punch another rider's brake lever??????  That is not racing.

After enough true accidents involving brake levers being pressed on accidental contact, MotoGP revised its rules to require brake lever guards a couple of years ago.  If you saw the Daytona 200 about 5-6 years ago, there was a horrible last lap crash that flipped a bike and rider at full speed when his brake lever was depressed.  Any professional world-class rider LIKE NICCOLO CANEPA knows fully well what can happen when you punch race bike brake calipers at speed. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 12:26:46 PM by CB750 Cafe Racer Fan »
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1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline Killer Canary

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Re: these two want it bad
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2015, 04:40:35 PM »
I remember watching a televised race years ago where (I think) Jamie Toseland accidentally ran his front brake lever into another rider's bar end right off of the starting grid. The camera was filming the pack head on, and the bike gave a wobble and then, just like that, the rear wheel went up and over the front! The rider was shaken (!) but uninjured.
Amazing braking power.
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