Author Topic: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help  (Read 7317 times)

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Offline saha6818

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2015, 12:14:46 PM »
I cleaned the carbs with various scraping and scrubbing tools. I soaked very few of the parts in carb cleaner. And the plug caps are new - they came with the new wires that were required when I changed the coils. (Both the coils and wires were Dynatek.) It's conceivable that I messed up the wires when I cut them to size - hence that check next.

Offline saha6818

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2015, 02:58:59 PM »
Another update. I ran the bike after replacing all the burned up ground wire today, and #2 and #3 were both not firing. I tried swapping the coils from side to side and switching the condensers, but they still wouldn't fire. Then I checked the plugs (which I replaced earlier in this process), and #2 and #3 were oily and not sparking. Any of the plug wires create spark on the outside plugs though. So I'll replace these plugs again.

But the bigger question - Is my browsing on this site right, that I perhaps need "oil gallery o-rings" or at least to open up the engine to inspect? Maybe an underlying cause is responsible for my bad plugs too? FYI, I haven't done a compression test (and don't know how yet).

Offline saha6818

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2015, 03:06:47 PM »
By the way, at some point I discovered that the previous owner had overfilled the oil. When the bike was running, smoke and some oil were coming out of the crankcase breather. So maybe that's when the plugs were oil-coated. So I'll just replace the two bad plugs and see if those cylinders fire. If they do, I'll worry about the oil coating later if it recurs.

Offline Gene

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2015, 03:06:55 PM »
If the plugs are fouled - replace or clean, then check for plug spark on the head before installing.  If spark, install, try running again.  Then, and only then, move on. 

As far as o-rings - I dunno.  But you may get lucky and just have had fouled plugs (after all the other work) and now we're not sure exactly what the issue was, but at least you have all 4 cylinders (this is what we hope).  If the problem persists, at least we know it's not the plugs.  One thing at a time and write down what you did - and in what order.  If nothing else, it'll help you keep track.

Edit: Lower the oil level too to the right level.
*1973 CB750K3 (Bow)

Offline saha6818

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2015, 03:12:33 PM »
Thanks, Gene. That's how I'll proceed. For the record, I did an oil change, and it's now at the correct level. (Reminds me of my high school friend who complained that his car was slower than usual. He had filled the engine to the top of the valve cover with tractor oil he stole from his uncle's ranch.)

Offline saha6818

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2015, 05:31:35 PM »
I put new plugs in, and the bike now warms all four exhaust outlets. The bike still runs like crap though. I think I've exhausted everything electrical and will head back into the carbs again. Maybe I'll be able to adjust the air screws without actually pulling the carbs.

Offline Gene

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2015, 07:44:13 PM »
Ok - so now we at least have fire and all 4 are working.  You've damn near replaced everything so why is it running like crap?  Have you synched your carbs?  Did you take them apart - as a bank of four and into singles - at any point? I'm a hack but I've been working on my own bikes (it took a year to get my little 360 dialed in, and I still used it as a commuter) so I won't go over your head here, and when real problems arise there is a plethora of smart people + good info here to get you on the road.

btw - you have replaced so many pieces already, you have too much money  ;)

Next we figure out why the bike is running like crap.  Dial all of your mix screws all the way in until you feel the slight resistance.  Then turn each of them 1 1/2 turns out.  See if that helps.

p.s. - hilarious about the cousin.  We may be related.
p.p.s. - Give us a pic of your bike, as it sits, both sides.  I have a theory.
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Offline robvangulik

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2015, 03:14:28 PM »
You replaced 'some' jets, with OEM jets? Or is there now a mix of original and aftermarket jets in your carbs?
Many aftermarket jets aren't known for their quality, and compatibility.

Offline saha6818

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2015, 04:08:20 PM »
The new jets are OEM.

Gene, I'm including images of the bike for your entertainment. I'm also including a photo of the jet I found today that I hadn't cleaned despite having the carbs apart eight times before. I didn't know these guys existed, and most of the little holes were gunky. I pulled them all and cleaned them. They're the ones the needles go through. Then the bike then ran a little better. It killed three more spark plugs, surged at idle, and smoked and leaked oil out of the crankcase breather. After I rode it for 30 miles with some fuel system cleaner in the tank, it runs MUCH better.

However, it still only runs with the choke at 50% (dying at 100% or 0%). It doesn't seem to matter if I turn the air screws in or out more. I don't understand this, but maybe more hard riding will fix the problem? Meanwhile, it was pretty exciting when the bike died in the middle of five lanes on the crowded interstate when my knee apparently bumped the choke closed. (I also have to fix the tach, speedo, and some other little things, but I think my girlfriend can now ride this!)

Oh, and yes, I USED to have too much money. And time. The CB took care of both of those problems for me. On a related note, I put LED bulbs in the rear turn signals today, and they're much brighter. I bought a new headlight that was reportedly ready to swap, but I think I'll have to cut the headlight trim to get it in there. That LED bulb hasn't arrived yet anyway.

Offline eoddom

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2015, 06:10:49 PM »
Wow that emulsion tube looks horrible. I'd look at breaking the carbs completely down, having them ultrasonic cleaned and rebuild with new brass.  Or maybe consider sending them to one of the members that does rebuilds if you aren't comfortable.

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2015, 06:43:06 PM »
Wow that emulsion tube looks horrible. I'd look at breaking the carbs completely down, having them ultrasonic cleaned and rebuild with new brass.  Or maybe consider sending them to one of the members that does rebuilds if you aren't comfortable.

+1

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151365.msg1729001.html#msg1729001
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

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Offline mrbreeze

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2015, 08:56:23 PM »
Dude....you need to stay off of the freeway till you get this thing sorted out. We don't want to hear about you getting clobbered by a Peterbilt when your bike suddenly dies without warning! I second that you need to tear the carbs all the way down and clean, rebuild properly. That emulsion tube looks totally unacceptable. Please be careful.
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Fool me once..shame on you. Fool me twice..I'm kickin' your a$$......

Offline eoddom

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2015, 05:13:48 AM »
Actually, looking at your picture I see something wrong.  First off, you dont need that GIANT fuel filter.  Just a tiny inline will do.  And your fuel line should only go over and down, it should never have to go upwards to get to the carb at any point.

Offline rb550four

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2015, 06:30:55 AM »
Nice project. Your girl friend ought to be very happy with you.  Especially after you send out those carbs to get them cleaned the right way. No offence, but, you 've been dicking with them since page one and still haven't gotten them clean. This was suggested around the third post to send them out .
  Did you download a manual? You've been "PLAYING" with the timing all this time.... Find the factory spec, set to factory spec correctly
then leave it alone until your carbs are clean.  By the way , have you ever checked the condition of the spark advance? , clean ground to battery  from the frame?
   Put in new plugs when the carbs come back, after you have factory spec'd the timing on both points...don't touch the carbs until it's sync' ing time.The carbs should be coming back within factory specs.
    Have you checked the valve adjustment? , or a manifold leak test?
The fuel line route... not kosher.
  You have the support and  suggestions from other members here, and you seem to be doing your own thing like you don't have a manual or seasoned suggestions... time to focus man. You can do this . Take a step back , make a compartmentalized  plan so you can start at factory spec in electric timing, carbs , fuel delivery system, valve adjustment...like that , then you have a true base to work from. If you  go on adjusting everything at once you loose your base, and you will be in a baseless, constantly adjusting everything out of adjustment,  hell.
 whatever you do ,it should be fun, and it will be with each small victory.
A few Honda 500's, a few Honda 550's, a few Honda 650's, '72 cb 450, a couple 500/550/650 hybrids, and 2001 750. 
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Offline tycmitchell

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2015, 07:00:47 AM »
I'll add to the mayhem;  Dynatek coils WILL install without heavy modification to the stock brackets.  All you have to do is flip them upside down and use the stock screws.  They will still clear the tank and provide the extra clearance needed for the plug wire connectors.  It took me a few minutes to figure that one out.  Now if I could just get my carbs cleaned and rebuilt.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

Offline eoddom

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2015, 01:18:11 PM »
Just to give you an idea...my bike ran like crap and only fired on a few cylinders.  I figured electrical problems, but after installing a freshly ultra-sonic cleaned and rebuilt set of carbs, it actually runs pretty damn good.  Granted mine has straight exhaust and pod filters, but it runs and drives and idles without choke.

Offline harisuluv

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2015, 01:34:27 PM »
Cleaning carbs can be very easy.  Can be.  However, previous owners, aftermarket parts, improper disassembly, damage during assembly, damaged parts, silicone, stripped screws, wrong screws, wrong parts, broken linkages, availability of parts/spares, corrosion, pitting, broken float posts, etc., etc., etc. 

There are so many things that can go wrong, so many parts that LOOK right but are not right.  If you need to rebuild an unmolested, original condition set that hasn't been messed with before, it's pretty easy.  Those sets of carbs are hard to come by nowadays though.


Offline saha6818

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2015, 04:23:36 PM »
The conclusion! The bike now runs perfectly, and everything works well. As expected, my girlfriend loves this bike, and I've put a fair number of miles on it too. New paint and less clapped-out exhaust might be in the future.

It looks like my two biggest and confusion-causing problems were a faulty shutoff switch and two backwards carb slides. I finally diagnosed the shutoff switch problem by tapping it with a screwdriver handle when the bike was running, only to have it immediately die. Any vibration or tinkering with it might cause the ignition to shut off or go back to working perfectly. I took that whole assembly apart (as I had the left-hand controls much earlier due to problems over there) and cleaned out the spider webs. I found no other issues inside there, so I think the spiders caused this problem. (They had gotten into every other tiny part, so I should have guessed.) As with the other control, the little BB and tiny springs were challenging.

As for the throttle slides, yeah, I'm an idiot. Not your normal idiot, as we've all concluded from this thread weeks ago, but an idiot with special idiot powers. When I read about the slides going only one way, I thought I had it covered by having the slot over the peg on the side of the cylinder. But no, those instructions were referring to the cutout at the bottom of the slide. However, I had adjusted the height of the slides using the drill bit method, so I think that mistake was somewhat undone. By the way, I finally diagnosed this problem after Googling and finding a couple of instances of this happening to other members of this forum.

I might also mention that a source of gas debris in the bottom of the bowls (and then into the jets) was caused by clogged float drain screws. I finally changed the gaskets on those and finally realized that there are holes for the fuel to drain without completely removing the screw. I had actually been frustrated when I thought that wasn't the case, but the passages were so clogged that the screw looked solid. I'm sure cleaning those out helped.

So this whole process was an opportunity for me to learn. From your advice, I learned that I could do this myself. Maybe my initial instinct to get professional help was on target, and I wasted a whole lot of my time. But the time wasn't completely wasted - I came away with better garage practice (e.g., keeping track of screws and parts), a better appreciation and tolerance for detail work, an understanding of CB carburetor and ignition systems, and the ability to rebuild one of these carbs blindfolded. I'm sorry if my stupid questions and side trips wasted your time too. But I assure you that your advice and support was vital in getting this wrapped up. I really do appreciate this online community.

I also learned that a bike that has been sitting for ~17 years outside will basically need everything taken apart and cleaned and lots of things replaced. And I understand sitting around outside is one big way bikes die. Maybe the biggest. So note to self and anyone else who needs the reminder: Ride your bike(s) more!

In case you're curious or considering a similar project (ideally without the ass-hattery), here are the financial details. The bike was $200. I don't know what registration cost. I wasn't much. And insurance is cheap. Total parts cost was around $800. That includes a new seat cover, speedo and tach parts, LED headlight, battery, cleaning supplies, mirrors, nuts and bolts to replace those that had rusted, most of the front brake parts, tires, voltage rectifier, points and condensers, ignition coils, spark plugs, plug wires, oil, gaskets, carb parts, fuel line and filter, air filter, signal lenses, light bulbs, clutch lever, and anything else I'm forgetting. I was surprised and happy that many new parts are available online.

As expected, my girlfriend loves this bike, and I've put a fair number of miles on it too. New paint and less clapped-out exhaust might be in the future. The bike's history (you know, before it was forgotten) is enmeshed in Yellowstone National Park, all three owners using it to get to work in the park. So we immediately got a special national park license plate as a shout-out to that legacy. I'm sure it'll visit other national parks real soon.

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2015, 04:06:04 AM »
Kudos! Some of the most valuable lessons are self taught. Your first idea to have a local "professional" attack (literally in many cases) the issues you were having has often ended badly for other members that have tried the same approach.

Personal achievement is very rewarding and often requires some intestinal fortitude to see it through. Congratulations!  8)
TAMTF...


Wilbur



Projects:
"Evolution": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100352.0
"P.O. Debacle": http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,126692.msg1441661.html#msg1441661
F2/F3 O-rings: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113672.msg1300721#msg1300721
Cam Tower Studs: https://www.mcmaster.com/#93210a017/=t19sgp
Clean up that nasty harness: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=137351.msg1549191#msg1549191
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,148188.msg1688494.html#msg1688494
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,139544.msg1579364.html#msg1579364
                                          
Charging system diagnosis: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1012.msg8345#msg8345
Get the manuals: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb750k/
The Dragon: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.msg1571675#msg1571675
Headlight Switch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113986.msg1283236#msg1283236
Branden's leak free top end thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=107040.0
Engine Lifting Made Easy: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,58210.msg1684742.html#msg1684742
                                      http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1675840.html#msg1675840
Static and Dynamic Timing: http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/carb_info/timing/timing1.html
Airbox Gasket Replacement: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,114485.msg1290000.html#msg1290000
"Café" : http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,84697.msg953814.html#msg953814
PD Carb Choke Linkage: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,100352.msg1669248.html#msg1669248
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,110931.msg1248354.html#msg1248354
                                    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,48858.msg515204.html#msg515204
Follow up on your damn posts: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,144305.msg1791605.html#msg1791605
Taiwanese Cam Chain Tensioners:  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,155043.msg1774841.html#msg1774841
Gumtwo Seat Cover: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,164440.msg1897366.html#msg1897366
Primary Drive: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,166063.msg1919278.html#msg1919278
Tank Latch: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,165975.msg1919495.html#msg1919495
Shorten your forks: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-shorten-forks-td4042465.html DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS!
Clutch How To: http://vintage-and-classic-honda-s.456789.n3.nabble.com/How-to-change-and-adjust-a-clutch-SOHC-td4040391.html
Late model K7/K8/F2/F3 front sprocket cover removal: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,178428.msg2072279.html#msg2072279
630 to 530 conversion: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180710.msg2094423.html#msg2094423

Sent from my Tandy TRS-80!

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Finally Admitting I Need Professional Help
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2015, 04:26:54 AM »
Excellent, congratulations!  Happy ending and nice story, I like the Yellowstone park final touch.

Many safe miles.