Topic: 550 clutch

[jonda500]

A couple of 550 clutch questions:

I have been looking on ebay for replacement clutch friction discs for my '75 CB550F (fitted with '78 engine) as it is starting to occasionally slip a little, but I can't find any kits that include the different outer "disc B" - they just have seven the same?? Has any one seen a proper replacement kit anywhere?

I have been shining up a better condition clutch cover and replaced the kick start seal in it, but it is from an older 550 engine than mine which wouldn't have had the thicker centre metal clutch plate that mine has. Is the cover different in any way?
Thanks, John

[jonda500]

After looking up some parts lists, I've found the clutch covers have the same part number so I think they must be the same except for the clutch adjuster lock nut which changed from a standard nut and washer to a flanged nut.

Ok, I think I'll just buy a cheap '7 discs the same' clutch kit and an oem disc B seperately if I can find one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg!
John

[jonda500]

Update: So I changed my mind and bought a used '75 550F complete clutch unit off ebay. I pulled the clutch out of my spare '78 550 engine and dismantled & cleaned both clutches to check for differences and found that all the parts are identical except for the metal clutch plates, which are slightly thicker in the older clutch and thinner in the newer one with the dampener plate used instead of the third one. The older stack of plates when assembled is slightly thinner overall so the inner pressure plate sits a little further from the bottom of the basket than it does in the newer one.

I measured all the friction plates - with vernier calipres - and found one of the two disc B (outer plate) plates was thicker but the other 12 were all the same. I pulled the clutch out of the bike, dismantled it and measured the friction plates - they were all thinner than my spare 12- yay!. I measured the 12 clutch springs and picked out 4 that were slightly longer than the remaining 8 (turned out to be three from one clutch and one from my ebay clutch).

I pulled the shifter shaft out and easily replaced the seal. Put it all back together with the thickest of the 2 disc B's and 6 of the 12 spares. I didn't change the basket, but I did use the older metal plates (and no dampener plate!). I used two shimming washers under the circlip - I don't have a dial guage but it felt like a lot of in and out movement with only one, with two it still has a tiny bit of in out clearance- barely perceptable, but there still. I used the 4 longest springs and a new clutch cover gasket. To take up all the cable slack (aftermarket cable) I had to screw the adjuster screw in the clutch cover all the way anti-clockwise as I was running out of adjustment on the two cable adjusters. Is that a bad thing to do?

I took her for a 40 mile test ride and could not get the clutch to slip at all, so I'm gonna say mission accomplished! -and at a fraction of the cost of a new oem set of plates!

[flatlander]

i see you answered almost all your questions yourself
indeed, it is 7 friction discs originally: 6 + disc B.

regarding adjustment: the screw in the cover is not to take up cable slack. the cable is new, it will stretch a bit. if you're now all out on the adjusters both at the lever and frame hanger, you have no more room and your engagement point at the lever is going to wander sooner or later, and you won't be able to put it back where you need it.
i'd get a cable that fits...

[jonda500]

Yes I have to learn not to keep buying aftermarket parts- I just end up replacing them with real parts nearly every time! The carby linkage fouls against the clutch cable and I can't work out what the original cable clamper that goes under the triple tree should look like - first I'll have to get an original cable so I have the right length!

I have the two dots lined up (one in the clutch cover and one in the clutch arm) - these are just a guide to how much cable slack you should have right?
John

[flatlander]

the dots... they show you what position roughly the lever should be in, in relation to that rod with the balls that actually pushes the clutch in.

clutch cable routing... i don't understand what you mean with cable clamper and triple tree. did you look up in the shop manual for your 500 how the routing should go? on my 550 the clutch cable is not clamped to the triple tree, it just goes under the tank and through the frame at the coils.

my experience is that for these kinds of parts, like cables, rubber parts, o-rings etc. Honda is usually best and lasts the longest. you pay more but you get a lot more out of it as you replace them less frequently and have generally less trouble because they fit right.

[jonda500]

the dots... they show you what position roughly the lever should be in, in relation to that rod with the balls that actually pushes the clutch in.

Thanks flatlander, that makes more sense - my clutch cover adjuster screw ran out of adjustment before the dots lined up exactly(checked by pulling the arm up to the contact point) so I am glad you said it's roughly which position the lever should be in- I am happy with how I have set it now.

The cable clamper I was wrong about - having checked on parts lists it is actually a "wiring harnes clip" - all the 500/550's had it, but I have never seen one and the main wiring harness does not go under the lower triple tree anyway!?!

My clutch cable problem... you're not gonna believe this... -just by chance an aftermarket tacho cable that I ordered weeks ago arrived today. I ordered this because the oem ones readily available look different and are NOT the right ones - I have one of these from ebay seller everett_powersports and it is too short to go under the lower triple tree so I had to route it over instead- where it rubs on the top of the triple tree and interferes with the clutch cable dragging it forward when the handle bars are turned from side to side, causing the rear portion of the clutch cable to drop down between carbs 3 & 4 where it fouls against the linkages when the throttle is opened wide. I fitted my new correct length, correct looking, german aftermarket tacho cable and found to my delight that my clutch cable now happily stays in it's correct location by its self, well clear of the carbs!
John

[flatlander]

glad you got it sorted

in case it helps, here's a pic of my 550 where the harness is routed under the triple tree and held in place with a clip.
cables for tach and speedo also go underneath, as you have found out.



and here you see how the clutch cable is routed. it goes from the left handlebar leaver between the clocks, to the right side of the frame, curving up under the tank before it goes down between carbs no. 3 and 4.
this is on a 550. probably it's not that different on the 500 but best to check in the shop manual or partslist to be sure.

[jonda500]

Awesome, thanks flatlander - that cable clip is one of the last little bits (from my parts list) that I still need. I have now also put a speedo cable clamp under the brake splitter mount bolt (which is the same clamp as the clamps that hold the ignition wires under the clutch cover).
I just bought a wire junction box but so far I'm a little puzzled what to do with it...
My clutch cable is so long that I have it routed under the triple tree - now that I have changed out the tacho cable (with the big rubber boot where it screws onto the tacho) for a correct length normal one routed under the triple tree it's not gradually pulling my clutch cable forward
Nice bike by the way! I can't decide whether to paint mine orange or blue.
John 

[flatlander]

i made a mistake in my description of the clutch cable routing, fixed it above.
there is a 550F addendum to the shop manual for the 500/550 that describes clearly the cable routing. do you have it?

what wire junction box do you have? post a pic, if it's part of the bike i should recognise it.

the original orange colour looks nice... the blue also... i went with the blue for 2 reasons:
- that was the bike's colour when it left the honda factory
- i live in the netherlands where orange is the colour of the royal family and i don't want to be confused with one of the drunk clowns wearing orange from head to toe on king's day

[jonda500]

Hey flatlander, I have heard of these addendum to the manual things but have yet to see one...

Looking at your second pic, it seems I have the right part - but I am puzzled what it bolts to? The parts list has two 12mm long 10millimetre bolts+washers listed (same as the two that hold the horn on), but nothing for them to attach to...

Once I figure out how to mount it then the fun really starts - my wiring harness is from a '78 550 Four K which I don't think used a wiring juntion box. It however uses large rectanglar connectors which are a PITA to fit in the headlight so I was hoping to unravel the wiring and modify it to allow some of it to be relocated to the wiring juntion box to relieve the congestion in the headlight... or possibly considering a new aftermarket loom.

Edit- for some reason the pics loaded upside down    John

[flatlander]

in the second picture in my previous post, you see this box, underneath the left hand coil. it holds some cable connections.

here you can also make it out if you look carefully:


do you know cmsnl.com? they have schematics from the partslist per bike model where you can look things up. like this:

the box is no. 11

manuals, addendums etc. are on this site here: http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb550/

a lot of stuff that's not there, or incomplete, can be found on hoda4fun.com:
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/shop-manual
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb550

you could modify your wire harness by replacing the connectors with the japanese style bullet connectors. the way you describe it, it sounds like it may already been hacked as honda didn't use flat connectors.
if you buy a replacement one be careful to choose for the correct model/year/region of the bike.

[jonda500]

I have no.11 and no.15 but can't work out what no.15 bolts to? John

[flatlander]

it bolts to the frame, in that little triangle where the coils sit. here 2 pictures without coils where it's visible from the righ-hand side.





never mind the dirt 
i took these pics as reference before i disassembled mine, cleaned it all and put it back together.

[jonda500]

Awesome - I don't know how I missed it, but sure enough my frame does indeed have the two threaded holes needed just where they are in your pic, many thanks for explaining that and the wire harness clip - both which I have been ever so puzzled about! John

[flatlander]

you're welcome!