Topic: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread

[low-side]

Normally those kits have washers backing up the cones and yes, you do want to retain the rubber dust seal; at least it doesn't hurt anything so I did.  The cone piece comes off and it wouldn't go together if you left it on.

[ev0lve]

I bought the Pyramid tapered steering bearings as well. No spacer included so I've been procrastinating installing it. Can't seem to find a washer just the right size either (id/od). Can you guys advise on installing these? I haven't beat mine out yet but does the lower bearing match the size of the lower race (height) so no spacer is required or is the kit incomplete compared to the All Balls kit?

Thanks!

[Kouros]

ttt

Bringing back to the top

[shoemanII]

on the relubing bearings item:  i relube wheel bearings in place by using a needle tip (looks like a syringe) on my grease gun. 

just did this the other night on the rear wheel of my '81 "c":

i disassemble everything, but leave the bearings in place.  on the bearings where the seal is visible, i carefully pry out the seal using what looks like a dentist's pick.  i wipe out the old grease then place some grease between the rolling elements.  then i inject a little grease to the backside (unavailable side) via the space between the balls/cage.  then i wipe out the excess and replace the seal. 

on bearings where the open side is available, i wipe out old goo, then inject grease to the backside, then place grease in between the balls on the visible side. 

not too much grease, this may cause the balls to "skid" instead of roll.  or overheat.  .02
bobp   

ps:  the 81c swingarm has needle bearings instead of bushings, pretty cool. 

[Kouros]

Thanks for the indepth reply about the greasing. Very informative as well.
But I really need to know about the soft flange and soft material there. Any help?

here is a copy & past from above:

I took a closer look at the bottom of the tripletree and there seems to be a soft flange plus one or two rubber washer/spacers there. Are those  for keeping the dust out (dust cap)?
Is the soft metal flange one piece with the stem and a keeper?
Would I be dropping the bottom one in there only to find out there is play in the steering without those extra parts?

Here is pic of the tripletree and the what I'm pointing to as a flange/rubber plus the bearings in above picture.

[Bouncer]

Great write up, I am in the process of ordering mine.

One question though:

Say, let's call him Mr. X, threw his old ball bearings away like an idiot  , how would you go about getting the correct measurement for what washer you will need.

By the way Mr. X has a 78 CB750F, if anyone has done this for the same bike.   

[shoemanII]

sorry, thought your question was answered.  when i installed a similar kit from partsnmore on a previous "k", i left the stuff you're asking about right there and packed it full of grease. i thought it was a grease seal.  didn't make a difference in overall height 'cause the inner race still sat fully down on the tree.  the "dust cap" didn't affect bearing ht.

i read here that some kits come with a big washer, and you have to measure the old bearing stack against the new one to see if you need the washer. 
bobp     

[Hush]

Mr X is now in guess territory, you could ask the local Honda guys to show you an old set, the science is a bit fluffy when it comes to worn steering races.
You are playing with a few millimetres of old steel and getting it close is goos enough.
The reason you use the old ones is to give you a height especially for the bottom set.

[MCRider]

Those are more dust seals than grease seals. They do not affect bearing height as the race is manufactured with a shoulder on the bottom to accomodate those parts. They "float". Use them over if you can. I've done without also.

[andy750]

Great write up Hush and Ill be using your instructions to install my bearings in a week or so...

cheers
Andy

[mystic_1]

Mister X can just install the bearings and fit the trees to the steering neck.  If his lower tree contacts the bottom of the steering head tube, he needs a spacer.  Trial and error at this point.

mystic_1

[Bouncer]

Mister X can just install the bearings and fit the trees to the steering neck.  If his lower tree contacts the bottom of the steering head tube, he needs a spacer.  Trial and error at this point.

mystic_1

That seems like my only option at this point.

[BobbyR]

You have given me the guts I needed to do this job. Thanks

[Markcb750]

I bought this kit for my '76,  it is straight forward, mine needed the small spacer. 

I did All Ballz test set up on the kitchen counter top; took five minutes to setup/measure/eyeball/ re-wrap; most of the time to fetch  grease for the old races so the balls would stay in place.

+/- 1 mm you can see with your eyes, 35 year old dial caliper confirmed I had about 10/1000 in.(1/4 mm) difference from the original bearings if I added the small spacer ALL Ballz provided. you can use a 120mm scale.



I chilled the outer races and the steering stem in the freezer for half an hour before I slipped assembly in the steering head, all went together with a few pops of my plastic hammer.

The inner races I pre-packed with $500/lb high speed spindle bearing grease, could only heat them a little with a hair dryer, but everything seemed to work well.




(I have designed and built many tapered roller bearing shafts in a prior life.  This kit is well done, should work for another 32 years... )


I tightened the head clamp lock nut pretty tight, hard to tell until I have the bike all assembled if it is too tight, but it fells solid and smooth.  I had a problem with a slow speed wobble, hope this cures that.

[Hush]

Jezz I'm humbled that my wee write-up has helped so many.
I wrote it as I had never attempted this sort of thing and had huge trepidation as to how it would all work out.
Keeping it simple (cos I'm a pretty simple guy) seems to ring true for those who wish to follow my wavering path of discovery in tapered bearing territory.
Glad someone ressurected it too as I would never remember what I had done and that 400f I'm looking to buy probably has the same problem. 

[kghost]

Don't do what I did...

I stuck my cups in the freezer and forgot where I put them.

I spent about 90 minutes searching the shop for them......

[Bouncer]

1978 CB750F SS

So basically when i tore this down I threw out my old ball bearings  and now plan on buying a kit. I have been leaning toward the all balls kit since it seems to be the "choice" product.

Here is my question(s):

On your own F bike:

A) What was the lower stack height measurement?

B) If you used the all balls kit what spacer did you use?

C) If you used a different kit, state it here and your experience with it.

If you have a different Bike/Model/Size this could be a solid resource for any other members like myself who throw the old bearings out before saving 3 balls to check the stack height. So feel free to post up.   

Thanks a bunch ahead of time.

[joeb]

I used the bigger spacer. Also a little hint when you go to put in the uppper and lower races stick them in the freezer first  they go in alot easier..   l 

[jtb]

I used the bigger spacer. Also a little hint when you go to put in the uppper and lower races stick them in the freezer first  they go in alot easier..   l 

+1

[KRONUS0100]

used the kit from old bike barn....thick bottom space...76 750F with the 76 GL1000 front end conversion.

[Really?]

I just did this, not too bad.  This write up helped a lot.  Great work on this thread.

I just found and read kirkn's post that is similar to this one.  I am seeing one difference and wondering if it matters.  kirkn (Nice thread as well) appears to have put the shim below the bottom bearing and you show that you put it above the lower race.

If it actually does not make a difference to the location, as long as it is at the bottom, I can see where the spacer being put above the lower race is a benefit.  If you somehow goofed on what spacer to use, it is much easier to switch out that taking the chance of ruining the lower bearing trying to get them out.

Oh, I can't find an upper seal in what I got from AllBalls.

So, what are y'alls thoughts on the spacers location?

[egar]

I've read the very excellent instructions from others on replacing the original ball bearings with the tapered. I have two questions. Do you have to take out the top and bottom collar inserts that are in the neck of the frame before you put the tapered bearings in? Keep in mind I don't have the tapered yet so I guess it would make sense once I have them. Also, the collars and such that are on the black stem that goes up through the neck - do they come off as well? Is the black neck one piece with the bottom triple tree housing or can you remove it. I have pictures if that helps.




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[fergie]

yep, they both come off. the one on the triple is a #$%* to get off though. I can't remember but I think I ended up cutting mine off. good luck, Fergie.

[Really?]

I was able to tap it in each side with a big hammer and screwdriver to get under it (yea, I tapped) and the rest of the way off.  Don't hurt yourself, lol.  This and getting the other one on is the biggest pains to get done. Be sure to grease that lower bearing before you bang it back on. The bottom upper and upper bottom races are no big deal to pop out, at least it wasn't for me.

[jason teamshralp]

To get the one off the triple trees you could try going to a bicycle shop. Park Tools, makes a tool for removing just that race off of bicycle forks. I've never used the one in our shop but maybe I will now on my cb350 project when I get around to it. Just my two cents...


these are great for the other races...

...you push it through one end, then the prongs spread out and you hit the top and out she pops, flip it over and repeat. I've used this one so many times. It works amazing, and now more screwdriver, and hammer combo.