Topic: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread

[MCRider]

I am just going by what I think I see in the pic.  Did you completely remove the lower race in the lower triple?  It looks awful old and beat up down there.

Just went and grabbed a cell phone pic with a flashlight, it was a bit dark under there, and attached it.  It is the one I did on the k5.

I'm wondering if the old lower race in the steering stem is still in.

Here's some pictures of mine which is still apart.  This is the lower tree. One washer, flush down and the bearing, down on the washer.

Pushing the lower tree up into the steering stem, this is about as far as yours seems to be.

Then pushing on up, the bearing, washer and the little bit of the tree disappears into the steering neck. The diameter of the washer is the exact fit into the lower stem making a nearly elements proof seal.


if your bearing is seated on the steering stem, then the race in the frame may have gotten cocked or somehow stopped before it found its seat high enough into the neck. I would knock it back out carefully from the top, freeze it, and use the old race to drive the new, now frozen, tapered bearing race back up into the neck. Get a real good look at how high it needs to go before it seats. There is a little shoulder up in the neck that it needs to hit. It also looks like in your picture you may be using the stock rubber dust seal. I don't think you can use that and get the bearing to seat properly on the stem.
Good luck.

[Alan F.]

Which kit did you get?  The 'All-Balls' brand kit comes with a large washer and a small washer.  The large washer goes into the bottom of the steering neck above the lower race, the smaller washer goes onto the steering stem under the tapered roller bearing.  It seems like you didn't use any of these spacers (unless I'm not seeing correctly)  if it's just a matter of pressing the bearing onto the steering stem... if you can thread the top nut on (not the chrome one) you can use tightening the top nut a quarter turn in conjunction with turning the lower triple tree lock to lock to tighten the nut and force the bearing onto the bottom of the steering stem.

[Alan F.]

The diameter of the washer is the exact fit into the lower stem making a nearly elements proof seal.

That washer is used to space the lower race downward, while the smaller washergoes into that spot.  Use a new seal beneath the lower bearing.  I don't get why 'all-balls doesn't include new seals in their cb750 kits, they include them with most of their other kits...

[Really?]

That chrome looks good on that lower triple.  I tell ya, if I coulda polished it, it woulda been.

[MCRider]

The diameter of the washer is the exact fit into the lower stem making a nearly elements proof seal.

That washer is used to space the lower race downward, while the smaller washergoes into that spot.  Use a new seal beneath the lower bearing.  I don't get why 'all-balls doesn't include new seals in their cb750 kits, they include them with most of their other kits...

Wow, now that's embarrassing. I did that years ago, and I don't remember if i had any printed instructions. But dimensionally, it all goes together and the washer provides a seal. Hmmmmm.

[MCRider]

That chrome looks good on that lower triple.  I tell ya, if I coulda polished it, it woulda been.

Thanks, yea I'm a chrome whore.

[toad5401]

I had clearance problems on the spacer washer on the All Balls set I just put in my 75-750F. I had to cut the hole bigger in the center of the thicker washer to keep the stem from rubbing. My kit came with upper and lower seals.

[Burnboy]

i didnt use a spacer on the bearing, is it possible that this cause me to hit it too far down on the nstem and flare it out some?

[HondaMan]

i didnt use a spacer on the bearing, is it possible that this cause me to hit it too far down on the nstem and flare it out some?

Yep. 

[Bird76Mojo]

From your picture it looks like you left the old seal on the stem. With the bearing on top of that.

I just did one 2 days ago so it's still fresh in the memory bank..

GB 

[78 k550]

I'm doing mine now. I need the spacer under my bearing. I couldn't get it right and took it out to find out what was wrong.
This is on my Wing.

Paul

[mrbreeze]

That chrome looks good on that lower triple.  I tell ya, if I coulda polished it, it woulda been.

+ 1 on the chromed lower........Its on my want list.

[mrbreeze]

I did the All Balls a few years ago and while they give you crappy directions....they do tell you to measure the stacked height of the old bearing and use the appropriate spacer provided to acheive the same for the old measurement.

[Hush]

Yep I agree with what the others have said, can you recheck to make sure you removed the old bearing race from the lower part of the steering neck.
It looks like your triple isn't going in far enough and the only reason could be is because its hitting some form of obstruction.
I know it sounds dumb but are you certain you put the tapered bearing in the right way up? hey I've done dumber things so I can't laugh at anyone, but it would be easily done and would explain the triple not moving up into position.
Look at MCrider's photo and make sure yours looks just like that.
I'd tap (real gentle like) the triple back out and check everything one more time, this part of your bike has to work perfectly, it's more important than working brakes really.
If you find nothing inside the steering neck that could be holding it from seating correctly then add the top part of the triple and use the large locking nut to ease it in, but you should not need to do this?
I gouged a huge track in my steering necks inner tube when knocking out the old race, this required me to file out some rough metal until the new bearing fitted snug, maybe check for that too.....best of luck...Hush.

P.S. Allballz need to upgrade their instructions, they are way too basic to be any use.

[MCRider]

So I think we can agree Burnboy has a problem, probably due to an assembly issue. Bearing not seated, race not seated, improper use or non-use of spacer.

I would offer that if one must use a hammer to get anotherwise properly seated bearing group to fit, then one has something wrong and should stop ASAP. If he has to remove the bearing from his lower stem, he's likely to destroy it at this point.

After several hectic PMs and further research, it seems there is no absolute answer. It is specific to the bearing set used, allballs, or other, and the model.

I relooked at mine from every angle and can't see where it could be "wrong" though I can see how it could be different and still work. I did it 8+ years ago. The project went into mothballs after that, only recently resurrected, and I simply can't remember what brand of bearings I'm using.

But I'd never heard of All Balls till I joined here, so I bet mine are something else.

Some have said that they've noticed even from different "K"s the stack of bearings/races/spacers will differ.

One thing to be aware of, if one is still using the stock fork ears, if the stack doesn't measure the same as stock, the ears might not fit.

[754]

I only read page 2,

 But as soon as I saw chrome it set off an allarm..

 If the bike in question has a chomed tree, then there is a high chance that the size of the bearing seating area is compromised.
Perhaps that is the problem?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Because I am a clever bastard, I just thought of this..
I know that the kits come with one or 2 under bearing washers.
What if you ground 2 notches into them, leaving about 1/3 of the material. Space them about 150 degrees apart.
 Now as you trial fit your bearing pack, if it is nor correct, you can now use the notches to pry up your bearing and switch or remove washers..

[MCRider]

I only read page 2,

 But as soon as I saw chrome it set off an allarm..

 If the bike in question has a chomed tree, then there is a high chance that the size of the bearing seating area is compromised.
Perhaps that is the problem?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Because I am a clever bastard, I just thought of this..
I know that the kits come with one or 2 under bearing washers.
What if you ground 2 notches into them, leaving about 1/3 of the material. Space them about 150 degrees apart.
 Now as you trial fit your bearing pack, if it is nor correct, you can now use the notches to pry up your bearing and switch or remove washers..

The chrome is on mine, which was used as an example of one that works. Chrome is no problem.

Good idea on the notches!

[Burnboy]

its not the original seal its just that my new seal got torn up from removing the bearing before and then reinstalling it.
is there anything that is pressed into the bottom of the neck like the top?

[MCRider]

its not the original seal its just that my new seal got torn up from removing the bearing before and then reinstalling it.
is there anything that is pressed into the bottom of the neck like the top?

Yes, there is a "race" for the bottom just like the top.

You would remove the original top and bottom races by tapping them out from the opposite end of the neck. Then use the old races to tap in the new ones.

The old races had a curved channel that the balls would roll in. The new races, the "channel"  is not there, replaced by a smooth and tapered surface to match up to the bearing.

[Bird76Mojo]

On the lower tree: On mine the washer is on the bottom. Then above that is the seal. Then the bearing on top. The new race should be "pressed" into the neck above that.

I just noticed that in your picture, the frame steering stop is hitting the lower tree on top of it's stops. Odd?

GB 

[Really?]

I put the washer above the upper race (the bottom set).  Hope that made sense, lol.  It came out smooth on the bottom.

[Burnboy]

the new bearing 'race' fit perfectly into the old race so i think i put it inside the older one thinking it was non-existant.....

[MCRider]

the new bearing 'race' fit perfectly into the old race so i think i put it inside the older one thinking it was non-existant.....

Oops

[Burnboy]

hmmm how hard is it gonna be to seperate the 2?

[jsaab2748]

One thing to be aware of, if one is still using the stock fork ears, if the stack doesn't measure the same as stock, the ears might not fit.
[/quote]



This was a problem on my 550 with the all ballz kit. I got the bottom stack right, but the TOP bearing and race won't press completely into the frame neck as it's too tall. It's been discussed that the top bearing sticking up a bit is pretty much a normal condition with the all ballz kit. End result is, bottom triple correct height, top triple sits too high. The ears on my bike had a space of about 1/8 inch from the top triple clamp with everything tightened down. I eliminated the gap by installing large rubber o rings around each fork tube, underneath the upper fork ear cushions thereby raising them ( the upper cushions) to take up the space. (if that makes sense). Turned out good, looks stock now. If it helps anyone fwiw...