Author Topic: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread  (Read 181949 times)

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Offline bryanj

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #600 on: June 29, 2020, 01:36:46 pm »
It should be all the way in but that race is fubar with the lines and pits. When all the way in the only way to get them out is with a dremel as the top lip is hidden
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline PeWe

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #601 on: June 29, 2020, 09:09:17 pm »
If you turn it slowly and feel no dents it should be OK.
There is a risk that there qre small dents making it to almost stop when lightly turned.

My last CB750 K2 build had also tapered bearings from a PO many years ago. Looked OK but I felt a dent that added friction during a very light turn. This is not accepted by vehicle inspection here so I bought a new set.

I replaced one by one and tested after each. It was the lower race that caused it. Difficult to see damages. Maybe a badly done install. I tested on the triple with no forks in.

My K6 however, where I installed  the bearings early 80's are still OK. These last forever as long as they are not  banged together. This kind of bearings are used as car wheel bearings and have s very tough life compared with steering on a bike.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 12:36:08 am by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76 1005cc JMR Billet block.
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline 754

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #602 on: June 29, 2020, 10:42:06 pm »
Could be stain on the race, give it the fingernail test , see if it's a pit
 2 ways to getveaces out, it wrecks them
 Weld 2 beads on the bearing about 7/8 long, shoukd shrink it enough.
 Or weld a strap across it,  or a big washer, then knock it out.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #603 on: June 30, 2020, 01:52:54 am »
I've long considered making a thin bushing to put up in the neck before the race, so I can drive the race out if I ever need to. Diameter is easily remembered as 1.969" (50mm) never figured out minimum thickness, maybe .030-.040" (.75-1mm)  would do? That's just a little thicker than the lower seal and shouldn't affect much.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #604 on: June 30, 2020, 02:54:18 am »
Pewe, wheel bearings last a long time because they rotate complete revolutions which is what they are designed for, i'm guessing the maximum angle lock to lock of a bike is 90 degree and for most of the time they are in one position so although the rollers are relatively long will still indent into the race causing exactly the same "notchy" steering as worn ball races and fail inspection. Go ask the Goldwing boys about worn tapers.
The theory is wonderfull but practice dont always add up. Tapers, if adjusted right, will handle better and if kept adjusted SHOULD last longer but they are not the magic fix that everybody seems to think they are
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline 754

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #605 on: June 30, 2020, 12:54:27 pm »
On the chopper frame, I am thinking of grinding 2 notches  180 deg apart... to be able to punch out bearings .. its a solid tube.
 On the Honda neck, the way it's made.. may be bad idea.

 Weld trick works great if you can stay only on the race area.. not the place to practice welding.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Medyo Bastos

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #606 on: June 30, 2020, 01:07:00 pm »
I spray pb blaster on them. They normally fall out on their own after a while of soaking..


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Offline Malovski

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #607 on: June 30, 2020, 01:28:11 pm »
Thanks everyone for your advise! Bummer that the races seems to be worn out... :( I went down earlier today and closely inspected the races. What can be seen in the picture is indeed scoring/pitting and easily felt with my fingernail. It's not very deep tho and the race feels completely smooth if I feel with my finger and not my fingernail. Does this still mean that they are totaled, should I test to regrease and reinstall everything and check how the steering feels or would that just be a waste of time? As the lower race is not seated completely I do think I will be able to drive them out with a punch if needing replacement (I don't have access to a welder). If the bearings need to be replaced, is there any certain make of tapered bearings that is recommended? I have for example noticed that All-balls come with dust shields, while others like the ones sold by Davidsilver does not. Thinking of buying new All-balls of ebay at the moment!

Offline bryanj

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #608 on: June 30, 2020, 01:30:36 pm »
An damage to the hardened race means they are junk
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline scottly

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #609 on: June 30, 2020, 08:13:06 pm »
I bought an All Balls kit from a member of a different forum, so now I have some measurements. The height of the stock lower bearing assembly is .718". The tapered bearing is .563" tall, so we need .155" of spacer under the bearing.The lower washer #99-1054 is .115" thick, while #99-1011 is .183". The metal part of the seal is .025", so with the .115" washer would be .140" for a total of .703", which is close enough.
At the top end, I had a surprise: the top of the inner races I've used before fit neatly inside the nubs on the bottom of the adjuster nut, but the top of the All Balls part is much larger diameter, and the upper washer Must be used. The washer is .078", and the upper seal is another .025", so if too thick of a spacer is used on the bottom, there may not be enough threads on the stem for the adjustment nut to fully engage.
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Offline Medyo Bastos

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #610 on: July 01, 2020, 10:54:26 am »
That is correck keemosawbee


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Offline The Gurg

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #611 on: September 13, 2020, 08:51:58 pm »
Ok somewhere in this thread is my answer...but it’s 25 pages.

How many turns of thread do I need for the top steering stem nut? Am I remembering right that the rule of thumb for fasteners/hardware in general is 5 turns?

Offline caluser2000

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #612 on: March 26, 2021, 11:45:43 pm »
Ok somewhere in this thread is my answer...but it’s 25 pages.

How many turns of thread do I need for the top steering stem nut? Am I remembering right that the rule of thumb for fasteners/hardware in general is 5 turns?
Tighten untill the thread strips then back it off half a turn...

My old dear is still on ball bearings and the handling of the bike is very precise.                               
Every time you set your ass on a bike, you're playing a game of Russian Roulette between yourself and your own stupidity."

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #613 on: March 27, 2021, 03:42:35 pm »
I used a Rising Sun kit from 4into1.com on my 750k8
All of my measurements and how I determined which spacer to use are in reply #42 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,182592.0.html

Offline caluser2000

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Re: Tapered Roller Bearings for Steering Stem
« Reply #614 on: March 28, 2021, 12:08:22 am »
check partsnmore.com also

My CB550F is still on it's original coils at 194,000kms. I replace things when they need to be replaced. Only changed one plug cap since 1986.

Why CB900 coil@ Because it sounds cool?. Those coils are fitted to a wide variety of Honda m/cs of the same period.

Long hot miles is the key not around town cafe hopping.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 12:13:47 am by caluser2000 »
Every time you set your ass on a bike, you're playing a game of Russian Roulette between yourself and your own stupidity."

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #615 on: November 20, 2022, 02:11:11 pm »
The All-balls bearing manufacturer in China seems to be the only option available;I remember a few decades ago there were some Made in USA,etc. that were better quality.
I was wondering if it's All-balls now as the 'only' option ??
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #616 on: November 20, 2022, 04:26:23 pm »
I bought & installed Rising Sun brand from 4into1, their kit seemed better than AllBalls to me, I'm doubtful they're made in USA.

 https://4into1.com/rising-sun-tapered-steering-bearing-kit-honda-vtr250-cb-cl-sl350-cb-cj-cl360-cb-cm400-cb-cl-cm450-cb-cx-ft-gb-gl-vt500-cx650-cb550-650-750-vt700c-750c-gl1000/

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #617 on: November 20, 2022, 04:35:38 pm »
I bought & installed Rising Sun brand from 4into1, their kit seemed better than AllBalls to me, I'm doubtful they're made in USA.

 https://4into1.com/rising-sun-tapered-steering-bearing-kit-honda-vtr250-cb-cl-sl350-cb-cj-cl360-cb-cm400-cb-cl-cm450-cb-cx-ft-gb-gl-vt500-cx650-cb550-650-750-vt700c-750c-gl1000/

I see.
I could only hope that the brand name "Rising Sun" is Made in Japan.. but I won't hold my breath on that one  :D
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #618 on: November 20, 2022, 05:53:05 pm »
That's just what I thought, I bought these and spent the rest on other parts.

Offline scunny

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #619 on: November 20, 2022, 06:04:03 pm »
I googled rising sun and they are chinese.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #620 on: November 21, 2022, 01:30:50 am »
Made in China can be printed on good quality bearings too ;)

You can order here. CB750 but fit other bikes too.
https://www.davidsilverspares.com/CB750K6-FOUR-1976/part_105462/


I bought my kit from Sweden, same as sold on Davidsilver and eBay Germany.
Name on package:  SSH750
Another seller has JMT435.
It seems to be shipping issues to USA on those sites
I plan to order soon.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2022, 02:08:26 am by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76 1005cc JMR Billet block.
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #621 on: November 21, 2022, 06:45:45 am »
Made in China can be printed on good quality bearings too ;)

You can order here. CB750 but fit other bikes too.
https://www.davidsilverspares.com/CB750K6-FOUR-1976/part_105462/


I bought my kit from Sweden, same as sold on Davidsilver and eBay Germany.
Name on package:  SSH750
Another seller has JMT435.
It seems to be shipping issues to USA on those sites
I plan to order soon.

Per,was there ever a time in the past,when you were able to purchase those bearings Made in Sweden,from Swedish steel ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #622 on: November 21, 2022, 12:42:14 pm »
SKF is a Swedish brand making bearings.
Svenska Kullager Fabriken.
"Swedish Rollerbearing Factory" in english.
I have visited one of their old factories in Gothenburg for over 20 years ago. A little bit bigger bearings, mashining and material handling.

I guess that the bearings needed are standard sizes.

Buy a kit with bottom washer is easier.
CB750 K6-76 1005cc JMR Billet block.
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #623 on: November 21, 2022, 12:53:07 pm »
SKF is a Swedish brand making bearings.
Svenska Kullager Fabriken.
"Swedish Rollerbearing Factory" in english.
I have visited one of their old factories in Gothenburg for over 20 years ago. A little bit bigger bearings, mashining and material handling.

I guess that the bearings needed are standard sizes.

Buy a kit with bottom washer is easier.

I remember 20-30 years ago seeing Real SKF brand bearings:Top Quality.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Tapered Steering Bearings Thread
« Reply #624 on: November 21, 2022, 01:02:07 pm »
SKF is a Swedish brand making bearings.
Svenska Kullager Fabriken.
"Swedish Rollerbearing Factory" in english.
I have visited one of their old factories in Gothenburg for over 20 years ago. A little bit bigger bearings, mashining and material handling.

I guess that the bearings needed are standard sizes.

Buy a kit with bottom washer is easier.

I remember 20-30 years ago seeing Real SKF brand bearings:Top Quality.
I'm sure they still are at the top.
I ordered SKF to my wheels.
Several sets for then and future.  2RSH type with extra good seals
Much lower price when order from UK than  here. This was before Brexit.
CB750 K6-76 1005cc JMR Billet block.
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967