Author Topic: New! What are these carb things you speak of?  (Read 1761 times)

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Offline MacaveliMC

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New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« on: September 23, 2015, 07:41:01 AM »
Hello everyone!

Here I am completing the time honor tradition.  What's the first thing you do after you purchase a motorcycle (besides ride it)? Join it's associated forum of course!  :o

Anyway, up until this point I've always been in the new(er) motorcycle game, but I really wanted a cool project bike to tear apart and make my own little cafe bike over the winter months while I'm depressed for lack of riding here in Michigan. Plus learn a lot about stuff I've never dealt with (i.e. these carb thingies  :) )

As of last Friday I am the proud owner of a '78 Honda CB550 with about 17k miles on it!  Here's the story in case anyone has any immediately apparent and upfront advice:

The craigslist ad said it runs.  Woo hoo! I don't have to trailer it!  So I show up, and the guy says it's been sitting for 3 weeks, and the battery seems to be dead, so he has to jump it.  After a few attempts at jump starting, the bike finally chugs enough for him to hit the throttle, which promptly sticks exactly where he rolls it to, and holds it at a few thousand rpms for a couple minutes to make sure the battery gets a good charge in it.  Then he closes the throttle and the bike manages to stay running.  I took it around the parking lot, and was relatively convinced it's a good starting point at least.  So I paid him the $700 for it, and rode it the half hour home!  On the way home I noticed at speed with a constant throttle opening, sometimes it would begin to lurch and sputter like it was running out of gas and/or misfiring.  But she stayed running (thank God!) all the way home!

Once she got home, I let her sit in the garage for less than two days, and when I tried to start her again, the battery lasted 3 or 4 starter pushes before it didn't have enough juice anymore.  The bike wouldn't start.  So I charged the battery on a tender for a while and eventually tried it again. No luck getting it to stay running. This was before trying the magical choke pull.  I've heard a lot of stories of people simply cleaning out their carbs and fixing all kinds of problems that way, so I took the carbs off the bike, took the bowls off, and sprayed carb cleaner through just about every nook, cranny, and hole I could find (trying to avoid any seals I found).  There really wasn't much gunk in there, and every hole I sprayed through seemed to spray through clean.  Then I drained the gas tank just in case the gas was bad, and filled it with a gallon of fresh stuff.  I put the entire thing back together, and tried to fire it up, with a fully charged battery.  Bike wouldn't start on it's own, but when I pulled the choke all the way out, it would fire up and rev up to about 3k RPM, and kind of bounce up and down for a while.  I tried to push the choke back in pretty quickly but the engine would just die, so I left it out for a couple minutes and finally got the bike to keep running without the choke! Victory! Kind of...

I got so excited I put my riding gear on, and decided to just ride it around the neighborhood. Despite the bike running at idle, it runs like absolute crap under acceleration and basic cruising speed.  It sputters and lurches quite a bit under acceleration, despite increasing speed fine.  Probably have a lot of maintenance and whatnot to do in the near future.  I was hoping it would run OK with minimal work and maybe I'd be able to just ride it for the rest of the season before I tear the entire bike apart, but it's looking increasingly like I'll probably just roll it into my back work space and wait a couple months, then tear it apart and clean/inspect/adjust EVERYTHING.

Anyway, if anyone has any immediate suggestions or ideas for me, I'd more than appreciate your input!  The only obvious mod on the bike I see is a previous owner switched out the air box for four UNI intake pods.  From the little research I've done it sounds like even a change like this can have a major effect on how the bike runs.  I'm already planning on syncing the carbs and doing my best to adjust everything to "perfection" and tune the bike in the future, but like I said, I was hoping to maybe just get it running somewhat well and ride it for a bit before I do all the major maintenance (and of course purchase the carb sync vacuum kit).

So, glad to be here and join the community! Can't wait to read more and tear into the bike!

 - Mike

Offline 70CB750

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 08:12:54 AM »
Welcome!

You will probably need to rebuild carburetors and check the ignition points.  Download the shop manual from this forum and do what is called 3000 miles maintenance.  Slightly neglected bike will run like a new after that is done.
Prokop
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Offline MacaveliMC

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 09:11:13 AM »
Welcome!

You will probably need to rebuild carburetors and check the ignition points.  Download the shop manual from this forum and do what is called 3000 miles maintenance.  Slightly neglected bike will run like a new after that is done.

Thanks! So you think even though everything seemed clear when I sprayed out the carbs they probably need to be rebuilt?  I definitely need to check the ignition points too....I'll check out that 3000 mile maintenance.

Offline 70CB750

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 09:55:41 AM »
There are air passages that need to be cleaned with a string. 

Even my K0, ridden hundred miles or so a week, would benefit from the idle jets cleaning every so often.
Prokop
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I love it when parts come together.

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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 10:39:35 AM »
Take the fully charged battery to Advance Auto or somewhere for a load test, not a voltage test. Get a good AGM battery if it tests bad.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline MacaveliMC

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2015, 11:41:16 AM »
OK! Well it sounds like my first steps from here are:

1. check the tappets under those handy-dandy tappet covers, make sure they're all set correctly.

2. Check timing and contact breakers, make sure they are clean and gaped correctly, and adjust timing with 12v test lamp.

3. Check actual spark plugs, and make sure they are correctly gaped.

4. Finally, if need be, check the air screw on the carbs and if the bike still won't run well, take them off and fully apart for a full cleaning (and possible rebuild).

Does that sound like an intelligent plan?? If it is I just need to find an intelligent guy to do it  ;D

Offline calj737

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2015, 11:59:33 AM »
That sounds an excellent plan. There are numerous jets an tubes internally to the carbs that must be removed
(carefully) and cleaned to surgical level of sanitation. Do not use aftermarket rebuild kits or brass; they tend to be junk. Same thing with new points and condensers. Theres a brand, Daichi, that you want to avoid. TEC brand is the preferred.

On the FAQ section, theres some awfully good info for rebuilding and adjusting your carbs.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

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Offline MoMo

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2015, 12:17:17 PM »
It seems from what you describe the midrange emulsifier tubes are clogged, requires carb disassembly; get battery tested as suggested, Scorpion is a decent, moderately priced AGM; download manual and do the full tune and service as suggested.  Good luck and welcome...larry

Online Stev-o

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 03:59:27 PM »
Welcome from Texas Michigander. Theres a lot of you guys around here. Where specifically are you?

Here's the battery Momo suggested...

http://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYT12C.html

I wouldnt just "gape" the plugs and points, I would replace them with OEM as Cal suggested above [we are on the same team - do things right the first time].

I have a couple 550's, they are fine running bikes when properly tuned. And fun!
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline MacaveliMC

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2015, 05:18:39 AM »
That sounds an excellent plan. There are numerous jets an tubes internally to the carbs that must be removed
(carefully) and cleaned to surgical level of sanitation. Do not use aftermarket rebuild kits or brass; they tend to be junk. Same thing with new points and condensers. Theres a brand, Daichi, that you want to avoid. TEC brand is the preferred.

On the FAQ section, theres some awfully good info for rebuilding and adjusting your carbs.

Thanks for the warning, I was actually looking at the complete rebuild kits on 4into1.com - are those the ones I should avoid? If not where should I get non-aftermarket rebuild kits? Would a Honda dealer really have a rebuild kit for a bike this old?

Offline MacaveliMC

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2015, 05:19:53 AM »
It seems from what you describe the midrange emulsifier tubes are clogged, requires carb disassembly; get battery tested as suggested, Scorpion is a decent, moderately priced AGM; download manual and do the full tune and service as suggested.  Good luck and welcome...larry

Yeah I figured it's something with the carbs, but I wanted to make sure I button up every other possibility before I take apart these complicated little mechanical wonders :) I'll take a look at those batteries too, thanks!

Offline MacaveliMC

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2015, 05:22:12 AM »
Welcome from Texas Michigander. Theres a lot of you guys around here. Where specifically are you?

Here's the battery Momo suggested...

http://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYT12C.html

I wouldnt just "gape" the plugs and points, I would replace them with OEM as Cal suggested above [we are on the same team - do things right the first time].

I have a couple 550's, they are fine running bikes when properly tuned. And fun!

Thanks! I'm from just north of Detroit, Auburn Hills MI!

Honestly I do plan on replacing all that stuff this winter when I tear the entire bike apart, I just wanted to see if I could first clean things up and just get the bike running half way decent for the remainder of the short season.  So can I just pick up OEM stuff for a bike like this at a Honda dealer?

Offline MoMo

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2015, 05:31:06 AM »
I got a carb rebuild kit from http://www.rustyriders.net/ for 11$ each but I only used the float needles and gaskets-kit was fine.  I do not trust the replacement jets so i cleaned the originals and reused.  There have been quite a bit of problem with replacement jets being a different size than original...Larry

Offline Gene

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2015, 02:53:46 PM »
Avoid the rebuild kits from 4 into 1.  I like them for pretty much everything - but not that.  I got the kits for my 550, used only the o-rings for the brass - the float needles are the wrong size to use with the original brass (too big) and I ended up buying the pre-shaped (like a little house) bowl gaskets elsewhere.
*1973 CB750K3 (Bow)

Offline MacaveliMC

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2015, 03:42:39 PM »
Unfortunately it looks like www.rustyriders.net doesn't carry rebuild kits for my '78 550 :( any other options you'd recommend?

Offline MoMo

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2015, 08:21:03 PM »
Unfortunately it looks like www.rustyriders.net doesn't carry rebuild kits for my '78 550 :( any other options you'd recommend?



The bike I worked on was a 76, your carbs are different I believe sorry for the bad info...Larry

Offline eoddom

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2015, 06:14:18 PM »
If it helps, I just ordered rebuild kits from 4into1 for our carbs (im assuming you have PD46a's) and I'll report back this weekend if they work out.  I only got the kit that comes with gaskets, orings and float needle though.  I'll clean and re-use all the factory jets if possible.

Offline MacaveliMC

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Re: New! What are these carb things you speak of?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2015, 05:42:19 AM »
If it helps, I just ordered rebuild kits from 4into1 for our carbs (im assuming you have PD46a's) and I'll report back this weekend if they work out.  I only got the kit that comes with gaskets, orings and float needle though.  I'll clean and re-use all the factory jets if possible.

Awesome! Yeah let me know how it works out! Thanks!