Author Topic: Re: 77 CB550 Engine - Pulled My Head and I Don't Like It (Read 6074 times)

imgnr · « **Reply #25 on:** September 09, 2015, 05:39:45 PM »

Valve not coming out after removing springs and keepers from the E-Bay head that was "ready to go". I tried tapping width a hammer and I think I cracked a guide. How should I remove it?

The valves from my old head slid right out.

I'm thinking about taking the two heads to a machine shop and having them sort out the good valves, guides, etc. and have them lap the valves for me and install the valves back in. Any idea how much that would run? I'm in Los Angeles so it'll probably be higher than elsewhere in the country.

Any good backyard mechanics in the area who can do it for beer money?

imgnr · « **Reply #26 on:** September 09, 2015, 06:21:46 PM »

Pic of damaged valve end from my old running head.

imgnr · « **Reply #27 on:** September 09, 2015, 06:23:03 PM »

Pic of old working head (shinier one) and eBay head.

imgnr · « **Reply #28 on:** September 14, 2015, 10:44:42 AM »

Decided to just take the two heads in to a machine shop. The new head had most of the valves bent. The wrecking guys bolted the head cover back on without loosening the rapper screws.

The machine shop was able to salvage a couple of guides and valves between the two heads. They also had to aluminum weld 3 spots where someone apparently used a screw driver to separate the head from the rest of the engine. They'll also install new seals that I supplied. Total cost is $240.

I would have no way of removing the guides or welding aluminum so not an option to diy. I'll post pics when I get it.

I'm now wondering whether to just chains the rings and hone the cylinders since everything a apart.

Thoughts?

Also, are the cheap Chinese rings any good? Honda ones are $40 a set.

imgnr · « **Reply #29 on:** September 16, 2015, 07:50:52 AM »

So I go to the machine shop yesterday and I'm very excited to see that they cleaned up all the oily mud and crap on the head, replaced all the guides from my old head (they had to heat it up) and was able to salvage enough valves from the two heads to make one (without a good one to spare!). They even aluminum welded the gouged out parts in the head and ground it smooth.

The owner hands me the old heads to show that they're cracked. I immediately see that there are little o-rings on them. Neither of us realized that there are o-rings that need to go between the guides and the head. Seems like they've got a pretty good seal. I felt bad for having them redo the work and almost took the head w/o the o-rings. I'm thinking it's probably going to be fine but then again, there's a reason the engineers put them there.

Long story short, I went home and got the top end rebuild kit and dropped off the rings to them.

Wonder whether those o-rings really do anything. Anyone rebuild a head and leave out the o-rings?

imgnr · « **Reply #30 on:** September 17, 2015, 09:42:12 PM »

Picked up my head. They sandblasted, reinstalled good valves and guides from one head to another, aluminum welded gouges, ground the valves, and reinstalled the seals and springs.

Best $240 I ever spent.

Can't wait to put it back in.

I'll rber to loosen the tappet screws and rubber band them. Also will torque the head bolts according to a specific order.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #31 on:** September 18, 2015, 12:51:16 PM »

Sounds like they cut you a break on the redo of the guides. Glad you didn't have a larger bill.
Now you can clean and paint the head before it is reassembled. Give it a good bake at 250 to heat cure the paint if you are using VHT, or whatever temp they specify.

Do it earlier in the day so you can air out the house and then bake a cake or batch of cookies to make the house smell good.

David

imgnr · « **Reply #32 on:** September 21, 2015, 07:59:01 PM »

David - you haven't met my wife. Although she's never backed a thing in her life, me using the the oven to bake a motorcycle part would be grounds for divorce. Wait, maybe that's what I should do...

RAFster122s · « **Reply #33 on:** September 21, 2015, 11:14:28 PM »

If you anticipate doing much powder coating you can get a nice Eastwood powder coating gun and do your own powder coating using a second hand oven in the back of your garage. Put it on a couple moving dollies and you can push it outside when baking anything. Use a 12/2 25 ft house wire with appropriate ends to tap into the 220V for your extension from the outlet you run for 220 to the garage if the electric panel is elsewhere in the house. Some houses put them in a utility room inside the house while others place them in the garage. I actually tapped into my electric dryer's outlet to piggy back on the wiring to my garage as it was easiest to do. The laundry right beside the garage wall. I would not run the dryer when using the aircompressor or other 220 load.

David

imgnr · « **Reply #34 on:** September 22, 2015, 01:34:33 PM »

David,

I live in LA where space is at a premium and no one knows how to work on their bike, much less use a screwdriver.

Man, wish I could find someone with a home setup like that. I'd pay them a few bucks to use it.

RAFster122s · « **Reply #35 on:** September 22, 2015, 04:26:48 PM »

I think that there was a shop in Seattle or Portland someone posted about where you could rent a work area by the hour and the shop was fully equipped. That would be nice. It is better to buy good tools rather than cheap tools most of the time. Harbor Freight has actually improved the quality of many of their tools. At first they were just inexpensive, but today they are as good as most Craftsman tools. But, that is damned by faint praise today as their quality is adequate but, nothing like they were 30-50 years ago.

I have amassed my tools over the past 30 years and ended up losing some in my separation from my wife.

Buy the basics and take care of them and keep them clean and oiled or clean and dry.

imgnr · « **Reply #36 on:** September 30, 2015, 10:30:26 PM »

After dropping the pan to check things out, I noticed that the PO didn't put the cam chain tensioner into the slot. That must've caused it to wear out as there were pieces of black plastic hanging off. So off goes the jugs. I cleaned it up with whatever chemicals I had sitting around, including foaming aluminum wheel cleaners. The kind you spray on and then hose off 15 mins later. Seems to work... Then I used a wire wheel (the kind with the red stringing thing on it).

I got a loaner honing tool from Autozone (need to leave a $25 deposit). The stones are huge - covered up over half the length of the cylinders. I guess that'll smooth things out. First time it was too shallow so I went in again faster (using wd-40 as a lubricant). Got it to about 45 degrees. Don't have a measuring tool but my handy ruler says the bores still about 58.5mm so I'm not going to worry about changing the rings that the PO had put in. I'll definitely check to make sure that he has them in the right order and with the right side up. First one should be the chrome ring then the black one but with the bevel down. Then the oil ring.

Ordered a new (used) cam chain tensioner and guide from E-Bay for about $45. Also got a correct oil strainer / uptake because the PO put in one from a CB500 that doesn't have the nipple for the hose.

I don't know what's worst, buying a bike that's been messed with but not completely rusted through or one that's been sitting in a field for 30 years.

There was a big chunk of the fin missing. Contemplated getting it professionally repaired but since the bike's not a show piece, slopped on some muffler repair epoxy I had sitting around. Will sand it down when it dries.

I'll also paint the jugs black to cover up all the crap that's not coming off. Not soda blasting it. I just want a good running bike, not a restoration.

imgnr · « **Reply #37 on:** October 06, 2015, 10:09:37 PM »

Help!!!! I put the head back on then the chain, the cam, and finally the cover. I rubber banded the tappets back as advised.

But the back of some of the tappets are pushing up against the back of the valves. I even took the whole valve adjustment bolt off and it's still pressed up firmly against the valve end.

Could the machine shop have mixed up the exhaust and inlet valves? Remember that I started with two heads so they mixed and matched the good valves between the two heads. Are the springs all the same size? I noticed that the tappets do not have the same clearance with the inlet / exhaust for cylinders 1 and 2 not being even (see pic) while 3 and 4 have the same amount of play. Is this normal? My spare head seems to do the same thing so maybe it is.

Can you please check out the pics and see if there's something that looks wrong? What should I check? I can take the head back to the shop but I need to be able to tell them what they did wrong.

Thank you!

imgnr · « **Reply #38 on:** October 06, 2015, 10:10:55 PM »

imgnr · « **Reply #39 on:** October 06, 2015, 10:12:05 PM »

More pics

goldarrow · « **Reply #40 on:** October 06, 2015, 11:22:58 PM »

Did you make sure to use some hondabond sealer on the rubber pucks? It would suck to have leaks later. Did you make sure the camchain tensioner seated properly on the bottom of the case? To check, Drop the oil pan and look up. Would suck to have chain rubbing on the tensioner. Remove the rubber bands and slowly tight things down and check the valve clearance.

Bootsey · « **Reply #41 on:** October 06, 2015, 11:51:09 PM »

Quote from: imgnr on October 06, 2015, 10:09:37 PM

But the back of some of the tappets are pushing up against the back of the valves. I even took the whole valve adjustment bolt off and it's still pressed up firmly against the valve end.

I had the same head scratching moment putting my cover back on - you'll never have zero clearance on all the rocker arms at once. Just make sure the rocker tip in sitting squarely on the valve, and screw the cover down evenly.
Be careful not to put too much pressure on the four front bolt lugs, they could snap quite easily.

imgnr · « **Reply #42 on:** October 07, 2015, 05:49:44 AM »

Guys - I can't begin to thank you enough for taking the time to help out fellow CB enthusiasts. Without this knowledge sharing, I'd be no where with my top end tear down. Thanks again.

Goldarrow - So you recommend that I use sealant? I thought the pressure would be enough to seal the pucks. I have a tube of UltraCopper Permatex gasket maker - will that work? Yes - the adjuster seated. It wasn't seated before and that's one of the reasons I decided to pull the jugs. Had to buy a new adjuster and guide due to them wearing down to metal in a few parts - probably due to not seating properly. I honed the cylinders while it was out.

Calj and Bootsey - SocoMoto's video

at about 3:40 in shows that all the tappets have some clearance. Some of mine don't move at all, even with the bolts completely removed. That's my concern - how would I be able to adjust the valve if there's no room to fit the feeler gauge in there?

Bootsey · « **Reply #43 on:** October 07, 2015, 02:50:16 PM »

Once you've sorted out the points Cal & Goldarrow mentioned, here's the procedure for setting the valve clearances. If you haven't got a copy of the service manual, track one down. It's available for download on the site somewhere I believe.

In that video you linked you can see that a couple of the rockers don't actually move when he presses on them, as they are hard up against the valves.

imgnr · « **Reply #44 on:** October 11, 2015, 12:58:07 AM »

What a a sense of satisfaction to have taken the entire top end off a bike, rebuilt it, put it back together and have it start right up! Thanks again everyone.

Bik runs ok. Carbs need to be balanced and adjusted. Bike stalls when at idle. If I adjust the idle control screw it just shoots up to 3000 rpm.

Mayb I'll see lay w the fuel air mixture screw. Should I lean it out (back out) or make it richer(turn it in).

Sent from my iPhone

Restoration Fan · « **Reply #45 on:** October 11, 2015, 07:12:25 AM »

Well done, imgnr. You're right. It is nerve-wracking as can be when you really have no experience and feel like you don't know what your doing. Then you come on here and these guys walk you through the pitfalls, mistakes, and screw-ups.

Then, you turn that key and hit the starter and it fires up.....it's almost a feeling of surprise that it actually works since you worked on it. But now you know much more than you did before. Good job.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #46 on:** October 11, 2015, 09:16:53 AM »

Well Done imgnr!

I told my daughter, back when she was figure skating that growth happens when you do something that scares you. What I FORGOT to tell her was make sure it wasn't something that scares DADDY!! So now she is into world travel, especially if she doesn't speak the language, sky diving, splunking, zorbing and worst of all, DATING!

imgnr · « **Reply #47 on:** October 11, 2015, 10:28:55 PM »

Old School - thanks for the bonus advice on life.

Consider this one done!

harisuluv · « **Reply #48 on:** October 11, 2015, 10:44:36 PM »

Quote from: imgnr on October 11, 2015, 12:58:07 AM

What a a sense of satisfaction to have taken the entire top end off a bike, rebuilt it, put it back together and have it start right up! Thanks again everyone.

Bik runs ok. Carbs need to be balanced and adjusted. Bike stalls when at idle. If I adjust the idle control screw it just shoots up to 3000 rpm.

Mayb I'll see lay w the fuel air mixture screw. Should I lean it out (back out) or make it richer(turn it in).

Sent from my iPhone

Sounds like your bike needs the slow jets cleaned. When you raise the idle that far, it's just simply raising the slides (and needles), it's no different than twisting the throttle. The rpm jump comes from the transition from slow jet to needle jet, so you are suddenly getting much more fuel.

News:

Author Topic: Re: 77 CB550 Engine - Pulled My Head and I Don't Like It (Read 6074 times)