Topic: "not" the solenoid - parasitic draw

[turboed13b]

Still won't prove if it is the starter or not. He needs to look at the source first which is the battery. All of these test are going to fail if the battery isn't up to spec and will lead to replacement of parts that are perfectly fine.

I'm not following your logic.  If he uses the bike's battery to test the starter and it spins the starter, how is that any different from the draw when it's hooked up through the solenoid?  It's not like the solenoid is causing that much of a difference in the battery draw.

Now if it does not spin the starter, I suppose that doesn't necessarily guarantee the starter is bad (if the battery is indeed the problem) but if the starter does spin, then you have at least eliminated the starter as the problem.

When you remove the starter from the engine and testing on the battery you are not testing under load. Even if the battery is dead it can still spin the starter and then you are just chasing your tail.

Just trying to say that the battery should be the first thing to look at before anything else. I just see people on here chase a problem for weeks because everyone suggest other things other than the simplest and most common problems.

[Restoration Fan]

When you remove the starter from the engine and testing on the battery you are not testing under load. Even if the battery is dead it can still spin the starter and then you are just chasing your tail.

Just trying to say that the battery should be the first thing to look at before anything else. I just see people on here chase a problem for weeks because everyone suggest other things other than the simplest and most common problems.

*shrug* OK, if you say so.  The only other load on the battery (which I can think of) at the time of hitting the starter is the running lights and headlight.  If he has the switch to turn those off, then the load is the same.  The starter button passes directly through the solenoid, which has a minute draw itself but the 'load' I think you're thinking of comes from the coils, spark, etc.  His problem is that the starter itself isn't even turning when he jumpers the solenoid.

And since this appears to be a 750 that we're talking about, in that case, I wouldn't remove the starter.  On the 550 or 500, the starter is very easily removed.  On the 750, it's a little more involved.  So I'd pull the battery from the battery box and bring it down by the starter to test.  You can do your battery electrical testing there as well.

[turboed13b]

You are forgetting about the load that the engine puts on the starter. The starter draws more current in the engine vs. out.

He already tried starting the bike by shorting the solenoid post which effectively is the same as placing it directly on the battery.

[Restoration Fan]

The engine doesn't put a load on the battery until after the starter turns it over.  The starter isn't turning right now. 
I'm just suggesting he can very simply rule the starter out as the issue if it turns over cleanly with it hooked straight to the battery.

I'm not saying that it means that the battery is good.  But, IMO even a weakened battery should turn the starter motor slightly.  The fact that it's not turning at all makes me believe the issue isn't the battery (or at least solely the battery). 

[turboed13b]

A weak or dead battery will not turn over a engine. I had a friend who was too cheap to buy a new battery because his was dead but the bike still ran fine just had to kick start it because the starter wouldn't turn. Finally bought a battery a couple weeks ago and starter and everything is fine. You also see people on here with weak charging systems complaining about having to kick start their bikes sometimes because the starter won't turn over.

Yes there is a load even when the starter isn't turning. It just means there isn't enough power to turn the engine over. The only way there would be no load is the starter having an open circuit and for that to happen the brushes would have to fall off or somehow not touching the commutator.


Of course testing the starter with a known good battery the way you say is a good way to see if it is the starter or not but again the battery has to check out good first.

[Restoration Fan]

Yes there is a load even when the starter isn't turning. It just means there isn't enough power to turn the engine over. The only way there would be no load is the starter having an open circuit and for that to happen the brushes would have to fall off or somehow not touching the commutator.

I'm sorry but I simply don't believe that is true.  The whole purpose of the solenoid is so that the starter DOESN'T turn all the time.  When you press the starter, the solenoid's magnets connect and it completes the circuit to allow electrical current through to the starter.  When you release the starter button, the solenoid magnets release and the flow to the starter stops.  Otherwise, your starter would be turning the entire time the engine is running.

I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.  Fine, check your battery, grumpy.  I suspect you'll find that it's fine...then you can check your starter.

[turboed13b]

Yes there is a load even when the starter isn't turning. It just means there isn't enough power to turn the engine over. The only way there would be no load is the starter having an open circuit and for that to happen the brushes would have to fall off or somehow not touching the commutator.

I'm sorry but I simply don't believe that is true.  The whole purpose of the solenoid is so that the starter DOESN'T turn all the time.  When you press the starter, the solenoid's magnets connect and it completes the circuit to allow electrical current through to the starter.  When you release the starter button, the solenoid magnets release and the flow to the starter stops.  Otherwise, your starter would be turning the entire time the engine is running.

I think we've beaten this dead horse enough.  Fine, check your battery, grumpy.  I suspect you'll find that it's fine...then you can check your starter.

Of course there is no load when power is not applied I am not sure how you got where it does since we have been talking about applying power whether it be directly by the battery or hitting the start button.

He also already tested the starter directly by shorting the lugs on the solenoid. Also reading back if I am reading correctly he has 0V with the ignition on so battery sounds like the problem to me.

[grumpy]

update -

load test of the battery failed. replaced it, now it runs.

HOWEVER, it ain't over. there's a .5A parasitic draw - or there was. I unplugged the key from the harness and the draw went to zero. must be dirty and/or worn.  gonna try to clean it.