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Offline Bailgang

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2015, 03:35:51 PM »
Rossi had no choice but to ride as hard as he could from the start and possibly toast his tires in the process so that was no surprise to me but it was exciting to watch him do it. I just wish Rossi and his followers would stop the conspiracy theory BS and just accept the fact that he got beat and move on, the last thing the sport needs is him crying about it into next season.
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2015, 04:52:09 PM »
Marquez may or may not have let lorenzo win,but it did look like he wasnt trying real hard to pass him
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Offline CBGhia

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2015, 05:29:59 AM »
Point is Rookster probably listened to the Rossi post race interview. He again accused MM of riding body guard & protecting Lorenzo at the front. If you hang on every word Rossi says, then there's no reasoning. Sour grapes I say. On & on & on this will go.

I never saw Marc try to pass Lorenzo.  He got close, but he never made even one attempt to pass.    When Dani started to get up there, he sure fought then. 

It wouldn't have mattered if Dani had gone through.  But Marc was playing body guard.
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2015, 05:46:29 AM »
On the day, Lorenzo was too good to be passed. Try, not try, Marquez wasn't getting by. I don't think Lorenzo was going to take any chances at not winning and allowing fate to determine his championship. Win, and its over. 2nd place, and he's opened the door for Rossi.

Marquez could have let Pedrosa past, but why do that? #2 on the podium is sure better than #3. Lorenzo started, stayed, and finished in 1st place. Race is over, season is in the books. Conjecture by all means rot. Results are official and recorded.
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Offline Steve_K

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2015, 06:06:36 AM »
Lorenzo won more races, led more laps and Yamaha had the better bike this year.  The man earned the championship by riding very well.  Did Rossi lose focus?  I don't know, his race craft was vintage Rossi in this race.   I do not think the Honda riders would NOT try to win or improve their position.   Lorenzo, Marquez and Pedrosa road hard and I  would bet tires were in very poor condition.  I bet Rossi's tires were done, too. 
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2015, 08:07:10 AM »
There were some good takeaways from the race. Rossi rode like a man possessed to get to P4. Lorenzo had metronome consistency. I really wanted to see Pedrosa push though. His riding showed some real grit at the end.
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2015, 12:04:53 PM »
As much as I dislike Lorenzo, he won the race.  I don't buy that Marquez was putting out his maximum to try to pass Lorenzo on the last couple of laps.  Marquez usually rides to the ragged edge to try to win.  The only one he tussled with was Pedrosa -- when Pedrosa was sick of settling for 3rd without a try to win. 

I agree that the Honda's had front issues when fully fueled, but they were faster late in the race -- just see how much distance/time Pedrosa was able to close up.  Also, today (2 days post race), Marquez was fastest on his 2015 and 2016 bikes. 

Further -- turning back to Malaysia, it's just an opinion but I wonder why Marquez could not have ridden around Rossi, slowed and ran wide or just not turned into his bike?  This is a guy who can thread the needle at 200 mph.

I will respect Marquez's unbelievable talent, but I've become less of a fan.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2015, 02:55:01 PM »
Don, not wanting to argue but a few things are obvious . Marquez had nothing to take the win for other than to win, he rode harder than Pedrosa and therefore would have had less tire left at the end, Lorenzo would have obviously fought tooth and nail for the win so Marquez would have risked a fall for no good reason which would have looked pretty stupid, you often see riders ride for position as they have nothing to gain by taking risks. Pedrosa had more speed at the end because he saved his tire by not pushing so hard earlier, he said so in his post race interview, Pedrosa made it easy for Marquez to overtake because he was pushing a bit hard and left room, he then missed a gear and settled for third. I don't have a favorite in MotoGP, I just love the racing,  but i think that Rossi has lowered his standing by carrying on like a little b1tch, he has what, 9 championships..?, he should exhibit a little more grace and decorum instead of demanding, like a petulant child, that anyone faster than him should yield and bow to his greatness  ::), he's just a typical hot headed Italian, { I know one here thats exactly the same},he just can't help opening his big mouth and dragging things on and making things worse, If he doesn't want drama then he needs to just shut up...
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Offline GV1390

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2015, 03:06:39 PM »
he just can't help opening his big mouth and dragging things on and making things worse, If he doesn't want drama then he needs to just shut up...

Sounds very hypocritical of you.
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2015, 03:35:22 PM »
Don, not wanting to argue but a few things are obvious . Marquez had nothing to take the win for other than to win, he rode harder than Pedrosa and therefore would have had less tire left at the end, Lorenzo would have obviously fought tooth and nail for the win so Marquez would have risked a fall for no good reason which would have looked pretty stupid, you often see riders ride for position as they have nothing to gain by taking risks. Pedrosa had more speed at the end because he saved his tire by not pushing so hard earlier, he said so in his post race interview, Pedrosa made it easy for Marquez to overtake because he was pushing a bit hard and left room, he then missed a gear and settled for third. I don't have a favorite in MotoGP, I just love the racing,  but i think that Rossi has lowered his standing by carrying on like a little b1tch, he has what, 9 championships..?, he should exhibit a little more grace and decorum instead of demanding, like a petulant child, that anyone faster than him should yield and bow to his greatness  ::), he's just a typical hot headed Italian, { I know one here thats exactly the same},he just can't help opening his big mouth and dragging things on and making things worse, If he doesn't want drama then he needs to just shut up...


Mick, I'll have to agree to disagree as to some of your post while I can agree with other portions as well.  Part of me thinks Rossi is being al little bit of a conspiracy theorist, but I still have a hard time believing that Marquez could not have avoided contact in Malaysia.  With respect to Valencia -- and Marquez's choice to not risk his position -- it is extremely rare when Marquez doesn't risk crashing out his RC213V for a victory.  Marquez's aggression has put him in many many pickles, but has also paid handsome dividends.  His tires going out rarely keeps that kid from sliding his way around and sometimes into other riders to win. 

In my opinion, Marquez is a graduate of the Rossi's image school -- getting away with an aggressive move by smiling, joking and laughing in response to criticism.  Like Rossi, he has been appealing because he looks like he's having fun winning and making millions doing something we all dream of, and being nice to his legion of fans.  Look like you are having the time of your life while being quietly ruthless.  This is why Stoner -- who is pretty damn talented, too -- does not have the appeal of a Marquez or Rossi.  Stoner principally cared about his riding, and not about catering to fans or the press -- that's not meant as a negative.  I think Marquez is one hell of an amazing rider -- and THE future legend of MotoGP -- but he's also immature.  Marquez has had to grow up fast in the spotlight, but his head has quietly grown quickly, too.  Whoever challenges him for a title or greatness is an enemy even if he smiles through it. 

Lorenzo (the robot) is bloody fast, too, but HE is the most petulant of all, and always tells the press how proud he is of his amazing accomplishments, his "celebrations" are awkward, and he's a whiny complainer (of Marquez, Pedrosa, Rossi, Simoncelli -- even though he's been equally guilty). 

Oh well, to each his own opinion. 

In fairness, not all Italians are hot headed.  (Methinks you were trying to get a rise there!)  Culturally passionate, yes, but not intemperate.  There is something passionate about the land of beautiful design, motorsport, fashion, wine, etc.  My best friend is 1/2 Sicilian and 1/2 Irish, and the most patient, cool-headed 4th grade teacher. 
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #85 on: November 10, 2015, 04:40:47 PM »
Hi Don, no, I wasn't trying to get a rise mate  ;D , I actually know a hot headed Italian who is a pain in the ass.. ;D  I still think Lorenzo {yes, he's a bit sterile and weird}, would have won, he was much faster in the straights which left Marquez to shove it up the inside for a pass, It was never going to happen unless Marquez was racing for a better position in the championship, even if he had passed Lorenzo and finished in first place, Lorenzo still won the championship... ;)

he just can't help opening his big mouth and dragging things on and making things worse, If he doesn't want drama then he needs to just shut up...

Sounds very hypocritical of you.

Haha, Irony anyone, Clever post mate, well done.... ::)
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2015, 09:43:17 AM »
Mick,

Just a slight tweak of the topic.  We all know the absent level of Americans in MotoGP.  What's your opinion of Jack Miller?  Also, what's your take on HRC not having Casey substitute for the injured Pedrosa at Austin, TX.  I thought Livio Suppo was slightly full of BS in saying that HRC didn't want to ask Stoner, because fans would expect a win (from a guy coming out of retirement).  Say what you want about Stoner's attitude with the media, he can ride the pi$$ out of a bike, especially the RC213V which he's continued to test for HRC.

When HRC finally did give Casey a ride at Suzuka, the bike had a throttle failure and put him into a crash.  I guess Honda had no problem putting Casey on a superbike when HRC's pride was at stake, but not when he might show up their new poster boy. 

Ducati Corse is wondering if HRC will renew Casey's MotoGP test rider contract, and may sign him if HRC passes.
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #87 on: November 11, 2015, 03:10:07 PM »
Mick,

Just a slight tweak of the topic.  We all know the absent level of Americans in MotoGP.  What's your opinion of Jack Miller?  Also, what's your take on HRC not having Casey substitute for the injured Pedrosa at Austin, TX.  I thought Livio Suppo was slightly full of BS in saying that HRC didn't want to ask Stoner, because fans would expect a win (from a guy coming out of retirement).  Say what you want about Stoner's attitude with the media, he can ride the pi$$ out of a bike, especially the RC213V which he's continued to test for HRC.

When HRC finally did give Casey a ride at Suzuka, the bike had a throttle failure and put him into a crash.  I guess Honda had no problem putting Casey on a superbike when HRC's pride was at stake, but not when he might show up their new poster boy. 

Ducati Corse is wondering if HRC will renew Casey's MotoGP test rider contract, and may sign him if HRC passes.

Gday Don, Jack Miller is very good, just needs a top flight bike, it will come.. ;)  Jacks quite an agressive rider so that would make it interesting. Casey was leading at Suzuka and was plain unlucky, he's still very quick. I've seen Casey quite a bit on TV here, he's done a few guest spots on one of our fishing shows, he's a keen fisherman, everyone would like to see him back in motogp but he left due to politics and other crap that goes on inside the series, he's been a top flight racer since he was a small boy and from what I've seen, he enjoys testing for Honda but is loving his time out of the spotlight and spending more time with his young family, personally I don't think he'll make a return, I'd like to be proven wrong though. His accident at Suzuka may have helped reinforce his decision to not race again full time, but really, who knows..?   ;)
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #88 on: November 11, 2015, 03:58:54 PM »
Mick,

Just a slight tweak of the topic.  We all know the absent level of Americans in MotoGP.  What's your opinion of Jack Miller?  Also, what's your take on HRC not having Casey substitute for the injured Pedrosa at Austin, TX.  I thought Livio Suppo was slightly full of BS in saying that HRC didn't want to ask Stoner, because fans would expect a win (from a guy coming out of retirement).  Say what you want about Stoner's attitude with the media, he can ride the pi$$ out of a bike, especially the RC213V which he's continued to test for HRC.

When HRC finally did give Casey a ride at Suzuka, the bike had a throttle failure and put him into a crash.  I guess Honda had no problem putting Casey on a superbike when HRC's pride was at stake, but not when he might show up their new poster boy. 

Ducati Corse is wondering if HRC will renew Casey's MotoGP test rider contract, and may sign him if HRC passes.

Gday Don, Jack Miller is very good, just needs a top flight bike, it will come.. ;)  Jacks quite an agressive rider so that would make it interesting. Casey was leading at Suzuka and was plain unlucky, he's still very quick. I've seen Casey quite a bit on TV here, he's done a few guest spots on one of our fishing shows, he's a keen fisherman, everyone would like to see him back in motogp but he left due to politics and other crap that goes on inside the series, he's been a top flight racer since he was a small boy and from what I've seen, he enjoys testing for Honda but is loving his time out of the spotlight and spending more time with his young family, personally I don't think he'll make a return, I'd like to be proven wrong though. His accident at Suzuka may have helped reinforce his decision to not race again full time, but really, who knows..?   ;)

That crash at Suzuka was one of the first times I've ever heard Honda/HRC publicly admit their part was defective causing a crash.  I think that with a rider of Casey's stature they had to own their mistake (not his).

I think that Nakamoto and Suppo snubbed Casey by not taking him up on his offer to substitute in for Pedrosa at Austin and Argentina.  "Sorry to everyone but I am not racing @circuitamericas next weekend it would have been an honour to ride for @26_DaniPedrosa #NotMeantToBe." And, "Bummer I'm not racing, no prep needed as I wasn't planning on winning, just replacing a good friend and having some fun in Texas!"

Casey wanted to do it and he didn't expect to finish in P1, but I suspect HRC or Marquez didn't want a head to head between Casey and Marquez.  The BS answer they gave about fan expectations for Casey was a load of horse feces.  If Casey had ridden slow, it could be accepted since he had not raced in over 2 years.  It would be no shame for HRC; Casey surely can ride faster than Hiroshi Ayoyama.  If Casey had given Marquez a serious challenge, then it could ruffle some feathers in the Honda paddock. 

Suppo and Nakamoto should have shown better loyalty to Casey for all he's accomplished for HRC.  One of the reasons the Honda has continued to be so fast is that Casey has helped continue its development in testing.  Many people credit Casey for handing Marquez the best GP bike and in helping to keep it at that level.

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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #89 on: November 11, 2015, 04:56:40 PM »
Mick,

Just a slight tweak of the topic.  We all know the absent level of Americans in MotoGP.  What's your opinion of Jack Miller?  Also, what's your take on HRC not having Casey substitute for the injured Pedrosa at Austin, TX.  I thought Livio Suppo was slightly full of BS in saying that HRC didn't want to ask Stoner, because fans would expect a win (from a guy coming out of retirement).  Say what you want about Stoner's attitude with the media, he can ride the pi$$ out of a bike, especially the RC213V which he's continued to test for HRC.

When HRC finally did give Casey a ride at Suzuka, the bike had a throttle failure and put him into a crash.  I guess Honda had no problem putting Casey on a superbike when HRC's pride was at stake, but not when he might show up their new poster boy. 

Ducati Corse is wondering if HRC will renew Casey's MotoGP test rider contract, and may sign him if HRC passes.

Gday Don, Jack Miller is very good, just needs a top flight bike, it will come.. ;)  Jacks quite an agressive rider so that would make it interesting. Casey was leading at Suzuka and was plain unlucky, he's still very quick. I've seen Casey quite a bit on TV here, he's done a few guest spots on one of our fishing shows, he's a keen fisherman, everyone would like to see him back in motogp but he left due to politics and other crap that goes on inside the series, he's been a top flight racer since he was a small boy and from what I've seen, he enjoys testing for Honda but is loving his time out of the spotlight and spending more time with his young family, personally I don't think he'll make a return, I'd like to be proven wrong though. His accident at Suzuka may have helped reinforce his decision to not race again full time, but really, who knows..?   ;)

That crash at Suzuka was one of the first times I've ever heard Honda/HRC publicly admit their part was defective causing a crash.  I think that with a rider of Casey's stature they had to own their mistake (not his).

I think that Nakamoto and Suppo snubbed Casey by not taking him up on his offer to substitute in for Pedrosa at Austin and Argentina.  "Sorry to everyone but I am not racing @circuitamericas next weekend it would have been an honour to ride for @26_DaniPedrosa #NotMeantToBe." And, "Bummer I'm not racing, no prep needed as I wasn't planning on winning, just replacing a good friend and having some fun in Texas!"

Casey wanted to do it and he didn't expect to finish in P1, but I suspect HRC or Marquez didn't want a head to head between Casey and Marquez.  The BS answer they gave about fan expectations for Casey was a load of horse feces.  If Casey had ridden slow, it could be accepted since he had not raced in over 2 years.  It would be no shame for HRC; Casey surely can ride faster than Hiroshi Ayoyama.  If Casey had given Marquez a serious challenge, then it could ruffle some feathers in the Honda paddock. 

Suppo and Nakamoto should have shown better loyalty to Casey for all he's accomplished for HRC.  One of the reasons the Honda has continued to be so fast is that Casey has helped continue its development in testing.  Many people credit Casey for handing Marquez the best GP bike and in helping to keep it at that level.

I agree Casey is brilliant at setting up a bike, you only have to look at what he was able to do with the Ducati, no one else could ride the thing, in saying that, he is also a special talent on a bike, the combination of both skill sets gave him that championship. I agree with the other points you made as well, thats the kind of stuff Stoner hates, the game playing {politics of the sport} , satisfying the people that have NOTHING to do with his race team or the bike mechanically.... ;)
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Offline bwaller

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2015, 05:47:12 PM »
Seems like he's back with Ducati. Not to slight Stoner but we're not sure what his testing encompassed. I doubt it was set-up work. Pretty sure Honda still, and has always, expected their riders to "adapt" to the bikes. Better than the early days but a different approach than Yamaha who's bikes are fast because they are usually easier to ride. (if that's possible!!) The more things change, the more they stay the same.

There's probably a better chance of seeing Stoner as a wild card this year.


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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2015, 06:31:23 PM »
Seems like he's back with Ducati. Not to slight Stoner but we're not sure what his testing encompassed. I doubt it was set-up work.

Lots of talk about him going to Ducati but nothing confirmed as yet, should be more news in the coming days, i read that Honda still wanted to retain him as well. Stoner works directly with the engineers and they act on his advice or what he perceives can be bettered... He's known for his ability to set up his bikes.. Individual tweaks would of course be done to suit the riders who benefit from Stoners input, everyones different.  From Honda, "The feedback he gives HRC is invaluable and we are fortunate to have a test rider capable to push the RC213V to its limits."   
Some riders just turn up and race, some know exactly what they want, I'd say Stoner is one of the latter, why else would they use him..? I also think his stint at Ducati well and truly proved he knows how to relay the information correctly back to the engineers so they can make improvements, they haven't won a race since he left... ;)
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Offline simon#42

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2015, 11:25:33 AM »
no one in there right mind would get casey to develop a bike , the last one he developed could only be ridden by him .
honda did not sign him for his development skills they signed him to stop him racing for the opposition
am surprised that he is thinking of going back to ducati though , that split was far from amicable , mind you i suppose most of the people he worked with are gone now .

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #93 on: November 12, 2015, 12:16:14 PM »
no one in there right mind would get casey to develop a bike , the last one he developed could only be ridden by him .
honda did not sign him for his development skills they signed him to stop him racing for the opposition
am surprised that he is thinking of going back to ducati though , that split was far from amicable , mind you i suppose most of the people he worked with are gone now .

I respectfully disagree, Simon.  Manufacturers hire test riders to grind out laps to test new parts for these bikes and give their engineers feedback.  That is part of the development process.  Having someone who can push the bike to its limit versus some milquetoast rider who is not at that high of a level will not aid development as much as a top rider.  HRC Executive Vice President, Shuhei Nakamoto, said (upon renewing Stoner's test rider contract last January) “The feedback he gives HRC is invaluable and we are fortunate to have a test rider capable to push the RC213V to its limits.”

http://racechaseronline.com/2015/01/motogp-honda-renews-contract-casey-stoner-2015/

According to Paulo Ciabatti, Ducati Corse Director, he would beg to differ with your characterization of relations between Ducati and Stoner.  “There is the possibility that he will be back with Ducati as a test rider, but we need to wait until the end of the year. Casey is a hero for Ducati; he won so many races and the world championship in 2007.”  Davide Tardozzi, Ducati MotoGP Team Manager, said: “Casey is very important for Ducati and all its supporters. After he had some issues with Honda, we started talking and it would be great to have him back as test rider. A return as a full time racer is excluded. It’s clear that he put the quality of his life on top of the list, and in fact now he is fishing somewhere. But he represents a lot for Ducati.”

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/11/11/motogp-world-champion-casey-stoner-set-to-become-ducati-test-rider/?src=SOC&dom=fb

Rather, it appears that relations between Stoner and HRC have been terse since Suppo and Nakamoto gave Stoner the cold shoulder to ride for Pedrosa.

Simon, maybe you have some inside information to the contrary that you can share?
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Offline calj737

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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2015, 12:38:44 PM »
Did someone say milquetoast rider? I came running...
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #95 on: November 12, 2015, 12:50:50 PM »
Did someone say milquetoast rider? I came running...

No, no. That would be me.
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Re: GP $hit $how
« Reply #96 on: November 12, 2015, 02:19:52 PM »
no one in there right mind would get casey to develop a bike , the last one he developed could only be ridden by him .
honda did not sign him for his development skills they signed him to stop him racing for the opposition
am surprised that he is thinking of going back to ducati though , that split was far from amicable , mind you i suppose most of the people he worked with are gone now .

Sorry Simon, I have to disagree with you here. Stoner didn't make that bike unrideable, Ducati did, I thought that was obvious when , well you know, no one else could ,  ride it, including Rossi,... ;D  :o  Stoner, regardless of what anyone thinks of him, is a brilliant rider and very good at setting up a bike, Honda simply wouldn't hire him otherwise... And in no way were Honda worried about Stoner riding for anyone else, If Stoner had wanted to ride for anyone else, he wouldn't of stayed on with Honda on the development side of things, thats his choice, not Honda's...
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