Author Topic: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1  (Read 13408 times)

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Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2015, 11:25:51 AM »
More progress, fun stuff. First up the fork:

I had previously disassembled it all, cleaned and hand-finished the stanchions, but just for fun I put them through the vapor blaster too. That still required hand finishing to look jussst right, but in this photo you can see the difference in the nooks and crannies that are near impossible to get spotless by hand.






KYB damper rods won't work as-is, that cap interferes with the fit and the oil flow...



...so "Off with its Head!"



Better:



Drill a couple more holes as directed, enlarge the existing ones, chamfer and deburr...



Oh no!



Swap over these bushings to the new fork tubes:



Push the seal in before the tube is installed, just to keep it perfect, install the damper rods, GoldValve and adapter, springs, spacers, cut to length for preload...



90% done, just waiting on new washers and circlips for atop the oil seals before I can put the dust seals on and call them done.

Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2015, 11:27:07 AM »
On to the swingarm.

Recall I had rebuilt it prior, but found it binding. More careful sleuthing uncovered a bent pivot bolt, but not before I trashed my new bronze bushings in a vain attempt to seat them a bit better in the swingarm. Faced with $60 for another set of bushings, or $100 for this tasty set of roller bearings plus a new pivot pin and trick radial end bearings, I went with door #2.

Z1 Enterprises sells these, a Japanese part, with German instructions. Go figure!

Short version: I will use this setup every time moving forward, if it is available. Suggest you do too.

Long version:

Kit (does NOT include the new swingarm pivot pictured, but that was cheap and readily available elsewhere):




Linky: http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item=KL31-6924

Cool radial bearing/caps, used instead of the stock dust caps, fit a lot easier:



Needle/roller bearings furnished, two per side.



Took the stock bushing, cut two kerfs in it with a cutoff wheel and used is as a bearing driver. This worked perfectly and easily.





These things are a skosh over 15mm wide, and the full diameter of the furnished collar is a tad inset when installed and centered in the swingarm, so I drove them in till there was ~17mm of space for the second one. You DON'T want to try to drive one with the other - they are only designed to be driven on one end, the end with the markings. Measure your driver, mark it, only drive it till you hit  your mark, A bit of space between them is perfectly fine, they are snug in there, they aren't going anywhere.





No getting around it, you're going to have to bonk on them to start them off, as straight as possible. Use a plastic or hard rubber hammer:



Grease the daylights out of everything, with good waterproof grease, You cannot over-grease these bearings in this application.



I could not resist cramming as much grease as I could force into the radial bearings, to lube and waterproof them



Install the spacers:



A little piece of plywood over the rear frame stays made the installation of this SOOO much less fumbly for me, and less prone to nicking things up.



Likewise a bit of tape around the pivot bosses prevented me marking up the fresh powdercoat.



5 swipes with a file on the bosses to remove powdercoat insured a snug fit with no binding. Torque it to 25 lb/ft, check for play and stiction, found absolutely none of either. Silky smooth, best one I've done so far. I'm converted.



Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2015, 11:28:07 AM »
Quote
Looking good! 

What Race Tech "recommends" is not gospel.  If the forks are too plush you may need to find some replacement, unmodified damper tubes.  That's still one mod I have been meaning to do over the last few years, but read up alot on those valves.  I mainly work with MX suspension.

What are your plans for shocks?

I've been happy with the other damper rod forks I've done this to, but I hear ya - that was sure some invasive surgery :-). I'm going to err on the short side of the "air spring" in the range of fork oil heights they suggest, they are using 15w oil too, which should firm things up a tad too.

I bought a pair of Ikon, should be a decent match for the fork, and rebuild able. They look pretty correct too, a bonus.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2015, 11:29:18 AM »
On to the wheels.

Took me three tries to get the front wheel started in the correct orientation, and then of course it tumbled to completion. All is well. In my next life lacing wheels will be fast and intuitive.

Setup



Antisieze and spokes



Started...



Finished!



May as well do the rear, all warmed up now...



and done



Installed the Ikon shocks too.



And now I am going home, 'cause that's where I sleep.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2015, 11:30:52 AM »
Quote

I like to mark a "key spoke".  Basically, take one spoke and put a small centerpunch (or whatever) on the corresponding hole in the hub and rim.  Then start with that key spoke and everything else will lace up easy. 

Looks nice so far!

That's a great idea - first spoke to the right of the valve stem, that way if I'm swapping rims it will still be relevant. Yeah, it's all about the first course, isn't it? Once that's done, it's fun and zen-like.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2015, 11:31:47 AM »
Lots of progress to report.

The last of the fork bits came in so I got to reassemble the fork,





Removed the springs and emulators, installed the oil and set the height:





Great MotionPro tool - set the desired height, clamp the donut to that height, suck out the excess. Mine took 225ml to yield 140mm of 'air spring'.



Install the dust seals and caps, and done.



Quick test fit for no good reason :-). More on that in a moment.



More...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2015, 11:33:18 AM »
Remember when we were talking about this? The top clamp is sitting about 3-4mm too high on the steering stem, after I installed the AllBalls tapered steering head bearings.



The AllBalls tapered steering head set is about 3-4mm taller than the stock bearings, and that naturally pushes this top clamp up by that amount. Here's why this matters:

See that gap above the ears? That's making everything up front loose. And that gap is...(wait for it!) 3-4mm.



So we took it back, from the bearing locknut. Managed to get it flat in the lathe and skimmed off a skosh over 3mm. It's 8mm thick, so it's still plenty thick to do what it does.









And now there's no gap, and the ears fit snugly and don't rattle:



...and this is sitting down on the stem now too, nearly flush.



And I confess that was bugging me, and I might have let the fit of the top clamp go, but when I realized the fit of the ears was going to be loose, this seemed necessary, and worth the 30 min detour. I'm happy with it now.

Moving on...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2015, 11:34:20 AM »
Got my tires, tubes, rim strips, got the wheels all trued-up, installed new wheel bearings and seals, good to go.





Trotted them down to my local, who kindly mounted them up for me:





Flapped-wheeled off some excess powdercoat that was interfering with the fit of the new rotors, chased all the wheel threads, installed the front rotors, with new bolts and lock washers. Just need to torque them to spec, bend the washers, and install the speedo drive, (which was just repainted and is drying overnight) and the front wheel can go on.







Finished up today piecing together the parts for the front turnsignals and headlight bucket, installing new grommets, etc.



Tomorrow I'll put the rear wheel together. replate the locknut now that I know it all fits well, and see if I can make this thing a roller, always a happy milestone.

Stay tuned!
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2015, 11:36:44 AM »
Alright, we all know what this photo means! Yesterday was "Engine Disassembly Day".



Things went well, I had a single cross head screw snap, having used heat and penetrants and the impact driver to extract them all, so that was a decent average I thought :-).  at the moment I am down to the crankcase, which I hope to get to split today if i can finish up some other chores and get back to it. I found a few gems along the way, which I'll post now just for fun, along with some other disassembly photos, and I will be back likely next week with a bunch of questions for those of you that have rebuilt these before.

Was puzzling why I could not extract the clutch pack in a stack. Took the plates out one by one till I found one of the fiber plates, broken into three pieces:



Oil screen was pretty funky. Nice hard coating of tar was on the engine sump too - that's soaking in the parts washer today.




There was evidence of leaking at both the head and cylinder base gaskets:



I don't seem to have photos of this, but the non-toothed cam chain tensioner at the rear was pretty chewed, and the steel chain guide at the front was snapped clean through. Replacements are inbound, along with a cam chain.

The pistons and valves look suspiciously good, like the top end was done, which accounts for the numerous leaks. The pistons look cheap to me though, can't quite say why I say that, but they don't look strong or well made.







Valves in #2


#4 had some minor crusty carbon, and more evidence of a leak



Cams and bearings seemed fine, no particular wear, big end and wrist pin bearings have no discernable play up and down, cylinder bores are  lightly scuffed near the bottoms, no visible honing crosshatch is in the bores. Once I get it all the way apart I will measure stuff like the ring end gaps and see where I'm at with the bore and piston clearances, see where that leads me. The head will come apart so I can inspect the valve sealing faces and replace the seals at minimum, will lap those valves while it's apart, check the guides, etc. Gasket surfaces seem too smooth to me, thinking of skimming them. Going to vapor blast them all too, and that might help evaluate the flatness of the sealing surfaces.

Thoughts on all this stuff? Would appreciate your accumulated wisdom on these and other items, potential service I ought to do to the oil pump etc.

More photos, just for grins:





























More to come...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2015, 11:38:01 AM »
Quote
Put the pistons in their respective bores without rings and measure at the piston skirt. Those are high compression pistons. The 903 piston is in the front.
Cam sprockets last a long time. Mine are 40 years old. I'll bet you have 70mm pistons making it a 1015 or even a 1075. :woohoo: They look good.
More questions? Ask away.
Steve

I'm gonna have a million Steve, thanks in advance. I'm busy prepping for a swap meet this weekend so unfortunately this was all I was able to do on the Z1 today, but it shore is purdy!









N.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2015, 11:47:31 AM »
Quote
I'll bet you have 70mm pistons making it a 1015 or even a 1075. :woohoo: They look good.
Steve

Just for fun I did go measure one just now, and I came up with 69.5mm across the very crown of the pistons. So it looks like I've got me a hotrod here. Odd that it was paired with the 26mm carbs.

Back to this next week lads, but not before one more little shot of eye candy, I did my valve cover while I was at it :-)





N.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2015, 11:48:21 AM »
Quote from:
Very nice. Check out your transmission dogs while you are at it.
Steve

Will do Steve, as soon as that's apart.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2015, 12:46:53 PM »

Got the engine all the way apart, did snap off one of the 8mm crankcase bolts (grrr!) but it was unavoidable I think - this particular fastener was super powdery from galling to the aluminum, about the worst I've seen, and being so long there was no way to get any penetrants down to it. I DID heat the ever loving snot out of the lower crankcase, but even so, I could feel that runny Suzuki peanut butter sickening feeling as I tried to remove it and it gave up. There's enough protruding to weld a nut onto it, I'm not worried.

Rigged up a little box to support the crankcase:



Took a few photos for reference so I would remember how it all came apart :-)







Hoisted it onto the lift to remove the engine stand bracket:



Spun off the crankcase bolts, breaking one (lower right)


...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2015, 12:47:49 PM »
And here are some detail shots and some of the interesting things I found.

















Here's some interesting stuff. Look at the wear on these shift forks!



Scorch marks:





Some evidence of bearings spinning. This engine must've been oil-starved before those big pistons were installed.





...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2015, 12:48:37 PM »
The head also came apart for vapor blasting and inspection, and it needs work. Three of the valve guides are definitely bad - one was really sticky, and two were really loose. So this came all the way apart and is getting cleaned up before it goes off to my machine shop guy for installation of new valve guides, and I'll have him do a full valve job on it while he has it, and check the mating surface to the jugs for flatness. i did put a steel straightedge on it and shone a light from behind and it looked good, but I'll let him judge.





...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2015, 12:49:24 PM »
Ditto the cylinders: They need honing at least so I am going to give these to him and see if he can fit the pistons to what I have and get the ring end gaps correct without new parts. Fingers crossed.











...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline hotdog

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2015, 08:12:47 PM »
Nice work  - looks great

Can I ask - what floor coating did you use in your extended shop..? Is it a paint or a seamless type resin.?
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2015, 09:01:43 PM »
Glad to see this posted here, I kept forgetting to go over there and check progress. 

Want to upgrade my Z1B's front end this winter.   
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2015, 10:08:49 PM »
Nice work  - looks great

Can I ask - what floor coating did you use in your extended shop..? Is it a paint or a seamless type resin.?

I used a Behr 1-part epoxy (is there such a thing?). I do not recommend it. I power washed the floor with detergent, rinsed it, squeegeed it, let it dry, etched it with their gnarly etch, squeegeed it, rinsed it, painted it, over a span of a few days as directed. Masking tape can peel the paint up. If I had to to do over I'd have used a proper 2-part epoxy paint. If I owned the shop I would have done one of those super duper epoxy finishes you can drive a forklift on. All that kvetching aside, it is clean, I can touch it up, it is easy to find things on it, and it is still far better than what I had prior.

HTH,

N.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2015, 10:09:23 PM »
Glad to see this posted here, I kept forgetting to go over there and check progress. 

Want to upgrade my Z1B's front end this winter.

I will totally walk you through it, or I'll just do it for ya.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2015, 10:24:53 PM »
So this afternoon I managed to get a few hours at the shop and so I finished cleaning the engine components with the vapor blaster in preparation for the machine work. What a difference.

Upper crankcase:









Lower crankcase:

(don't seem to have a 'before")



Cylinder head:





Cylinders:





Stuff:



And with that, I am pooped. More next week as things start to go back together.

N.
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

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My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline Powderman

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2015, 11:49:04 AM »
Wow, what a difference. Nice to have an option for blasting that doesn't damage anything.

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2015, 12:10:10 PM »
Wow, what a difference. Nice to have an option for blasting that doesn't damage anything.

Thanks Powderman, I appreciate the good words.

Wee little update:

The heads and cylinders are being worked on - the good news is the pistons and rings fit the cylinders just fine, and so with a hone those are good to go. Valves and guides were at the edge of the service limit, and the seats were pitted, so those are being replaced and the seats ground, seals replaced. The head should be better than new.

Big shift fork is in hand, two smaller shift forks are inbound, along with some rubber bits for the cam chain rollers and guide.

Should have that stuff back mid next week and then I can start the reassembly of the engine, but in between I will get to the inspection of the transmission gears and the oil pump. Now if you'll excuse me I am off to see about an engine seal set, if there is such a thing.

N.

Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2016, 07:58:36 PM »
Stev-o wrote:

Quote
What's up amigo?

Heya Steve!

There is an update, but I am stalled.

The machine shop work is all done - the head got new Kibblewhite valves and springs and keepers, and slightly oversize guides were installed, along with new seals of course, And it was vapor blasted naturally so it is by now a better-than-new head, good to go.

The cylinder and pistons and rings were all fine - remember those were all really young-looking, Everything was still within tolerance and so the bores were honed and that's ready to go too.

So I pored through the parts list and put together an order for every seal and o ring I need to start reassembly, plus my oversize head gasket, ordered it all, and now I'm waiting...... Z1 Enterprises (which I love) is shut down till 12/2 and some parts were out of stock when I had ordered them anyway.

There's other stuff to do, like put the tailsection together and more wiring, but I'd prefer to do that after the engine is back in, So I am dicking around with other projects and vapor blasting stuff and working on the shop and waiting...

Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0

Offline NobleHops

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Re: NobleHops restores a 1975 Z1
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2016, 08:00:17 PM »
...

Waiting on parts so I amused myself by reassembling the cylinder head after my brother more or less begged me to let him port it :-)



For sure, when he was done, the ports were a lot smoother, which can't be bad. I cleaned it once again within an inch of it's life, cleaned all the parts that had been removed and had at it.



As prior, my machinist suggested new everything, so we did. Kibblewhite valves, springs, keepers, and the seals from my gasket set.

Made up a little seal driver out of a 10mm socket on a screwdriver. Insert the driver into the guide, slide the socket/seal combo down to the guide, press with the thumb and POP, seal installed. Muy bueno.

[ur



Ran an oiled bore brush down the guides, lubed the valve stems with a smear of assembly lube...



This is one of those tools I use twice a year, and still love.







Done!



More...
Nils Menten * Tucson, Arizona, USA

I have a motorcycle problem.

My build thread: NobleHops makes a 400F pretty for his wife: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=131210.0