Author Topic: Bike won't turn on, what should I check? (Read 5417 times)

mrfish2 · « **on:** October 22, 2015, 01:56:42 PM »

Everything has been fine with my 550 for the past few weeks, as in zero issues. Today i rode over to Advance Auto (about 3 miles) to buy some headlight bulbs for my truck. Had no issues on the way there. Upon coming out of the store I put the key in the bike, turned it, and nothing happened. No lights are coming on whatsoever.

None of the fuses are blown, and as soon as I get it home I'll check the voltage on the battery. If the battery has juice what should I check next? I'm at a loss here.

flybox1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2015, 02:13:34 PM »

any and all block connectors

mrfish2 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2015, 02:29:17 PM »

Battery has 12.7 volts. What do you mean by block connectors? The white plastic ones?

flybox1 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2015, 02:38:31 PM »

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 22, 2015, 02:29:17 PM

What do you mean by block connectors? The white plastic ones?

yes
specifically the one off your ign.

turn your key to ON...and watch for the tree lights to come on/flicker

mrfish2 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2015, 02:44:14 PM »

Okay, in the meantime another question: if the starter solenoid was bad would it cause this to happen? At the solenoid post where the positive battery cable connects I have 12 volts, but at the second post it doesn't read anything.

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2015, 03:08:35 PM »

Ignition switch (most likely) or kill switch (lights should still light) could be fried if all your connectors are up to snuff.

turboed13b · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2015, 03:09:20 PM »

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 22, 2015, 02:44:14 PM

Okay, in the meantime another question: if the starter solenoid was bad would it cause this to happen? At the solenoid post where the positive battery cable connects I have 12 volts, but at the second post it doesn't read anything.

You should be reading battery voltage at that post so 12.7 should be it. Correct about the other post being 0v.

I bet the ignition switch is dead.

mrfish2 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2015, 03:36:55 PM »

All the connections are up to par, nothing is corroded and I can't find anything disconnected.

Quote from: turboed13b on October 22, 2015, 03:09:20 PM

I bet the ignition switch is dead.

That's what I'm starting to lean towards. Does it make sense though that it would just all of a sudden crap out? And how would I go about testing the ignition switch? I'm still not sure how to even get it off the mounting point, it's never been something I've had to deal with till now.

Restoration Fan · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2015, 03:47:06 PM »

If it's one of the later models where the ignition switch is on the triple tree and not underneath the frame, make sure that the wiring connector plug is connected tightly into the ignition switch. Just reach underneath there and push it to make sure it's firmly seated.

mrfish2 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2015, 04:05:32 PM »

Quote from: Restoration Fan on October 22, 2015, 03:47:06 PM

If it's one of the later models where the ignition switch is on the triple tree and not underneath the frame, make sure that the wiring connector plug is connected tightly into the ignition switch. Just reach underneath there and push it to make sure it's firmly seated.

Mine is a 76, it has the switch on the side below the tank.

Quote from: calj737 on October 22, 2015, 03:51:49 PM

Double check the actual terminals at the battery to insure they're tight. It would not surprise me that vibration has caused either side to not make proper and full contact.

Just checked, both are tight as a drum.

I also unplugged the ignition switch from the main harness to check continuity. Someone tell me if i did this right: the plug of the igniton switch has 4 female connectors, with a black, red, brown, and brown/white wire. I know the black and red wires dictate power to the coils and bike, so I touched my multimeter leads to the black and red female connectors. With the key in the run position I was getting continuity, so it seems the switch is fine and the problem lies elsewhere.

Gene · « **Reply #10 on:** October 22, 2015, 04:24:50 PM »

Fuse - gotta be.

mrfish2 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2015, 04:42:01 PM »

I'm getting 12 volts where the main 15A fuse plugs in

Vinhead1957 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2015, 04:58:37 PM »

No headlight no running lights ??

Restoration Fan · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2015, 05:08:39 PM »

If your fuse block is even the slightest bit "rusty", take it off the bike and soak it for a few minutes in a solution of white vinegar and salt. Just put about 2 teaspoons of salt in a solution that is deep enough to submerge the entire copper portion of the terminal. Leave it in for about 4 or 5 minutes. Rinse off the vinegar then dry the fuse block. (I then used blown air from air compressor to ensure it was completely dry). Your copper will literally be like brand new.

We had a similar issue that doing this resolved. Even if it doesn't fix your problem, it will keep the fuse block's tarnishment from becoming a problem.

mrfish2 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2015, 05:09:56 PM »

Quote from: Vinhead1957 on October 22, 2015, 04:58:37 PM

No headlight no running lights ??

Turn the key and zip, nothing happens. No lights, no starting, no nothing.

Quote from: Restoration Fan on October 22, 2015, 05:08:39 PM

If your fuse block is even the slightest bit "rusty", take it off the bike and soak it for a few minutes in a solution of white vinegar and salt. Just put about 2 teaspoons of salt in a solution that is deep enough to submerge the entire copper portion of the terminal. Leave it in for about 4 or 5 minutes. Rinse off the vinegar then dry the fuse block. (I then used blown air from air compressor to ensure it was completely dry). Your copper will literally be like brand new.

We had a similar issue that doing this resolved. Even if it doesn't fix your problem, it will keep the fuse block's tarnishment from becoming a problem.

Thanks for that tip, but my fuseblock is the Hondaman special so it's brand new. It was one of the first things i replaced on the bike.

Vinhead1957 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2015, 05:14:38 PM »

So 12v at fuses new style. Did you check the frame ground to see if it's loose ? One on engine mount bolt and the other by the seat latch.

HondaMan · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2015, 07:38:02 PM »

Try this: jumper between the RED wire (or battery (+) terminal) and the BLACK wire at the voltage regulator. If it lights up the OIL and NEUTRAL lights (and maybe the headlight), the keyswitch has melted inside. If it is an EMGO keyswitch, a new one will do it again, very soon. Use Honda's own Keyswitch if yours is bad, or if a new EMGO comes along, add one of my Key Switch Saver relays, which will help for a while. But...the EMGO switches also physically break, as mine has, so try Honda's own if you need one? It's worht the extra $$, IMHO...

Duanob · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2015, 07:47:46 PM »

Quote from: HondaMan on October 22, 2015, 07:38:02 PM

Try this: jumper between the RED wire (or battery (+) terminal) and the BLACK wire at the voltage regulator. If it lights up the OIL and NEUTRAL lights (and maybe the headlight), the keyswitch has melted inside. If it is an EMGO keyswitch, a new one will do it again, very soon. Use Honda's own Keyswitch if yours is bad, or if a new EMGO comes along, add one of my Key Switch Saver relays, which will help for a while. But...the EMGO switches also physically break, as mine has, so try Honda's own if you need one? It's worht the extra $$, IMHO...

+1 I think its ignition switch. No lights no nothing. All electricals are controlled by the Ig switch. If it was just a main fuse I think you will still have lights.

mrbreeze · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2015, 08:03:30 PM »

Quote from: turboed13b on October 22, 2015, 03:09:20 PM

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 22, 2015, 02:44:14 PM
Okay, in the meantime another question: if the starter solenoid was bad would it cause this to happen? At the solenoid post where the positive battery cable connects I have 12 volts, but at the second post it doesn't read anything.

You should be reading battery voltage at that post so 12.7 should be it. Correct about the other post being 0v.

I bet the ignition switch is dead.

The battery positive at the solenoid should be hot. The other large one should go hot when you hit the starter. Check your battery voltage when you are hitting the starter. If no dash lights come on with the key on and the main fuse is hot (on both sides) you have a bad connection. You say the battery shows 12 something volts but that is without a load. Also.....try wiggling the harness connector at the ignition switch with the key on and see if the dash lights up. Bad batteries do all kinds of weird sh!t as do bad connections. Have you tried jumping the battery?

mrfish2 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2015, 10:42:34 AM »

I've wiggled on everything, even gone as far as taking the airbox off to gain better access to the backside of the electrical panel. I'm fairly certain it isn't the ignition switch because it's giving me continuity when disconnected, and I'm getting 12v from the main harness where the ignition plugs in.

Just now I tried Hondaman's suggestion. Connected a wire to the positive side of the battery, disconnected the black wire going to the voltage regulator, and touched the wire i hooked up to the battery to the male end of the voltage regulator with the switch on, and nothing happened. Then touched my wire to the female plug (the one that connects to the regulator) and still nothing happened.

Now here's the kicker: i think i accidentally touched my wire to the frame next because i heard something that sounded like a spark, and now I've got all my lights back and the bike starts and runs fine. What in the world did i do??

Restoration Fan · « **Reply #20 on:** October 23, 2015, 10:55:03 AM »

Sounds like you have a short somewhere.

mrbreeze · « **Reply #21 on:** October 23, 2015, 10:59:54 AM »

Your bike is possessed! Seriously....sounds like something is loose and you temporarily made a connection. It may take some head scratching and lots of investigating but if you stick with it you'll find the problem. It's not fun to have to worry each time you go for a ride.

Sprocket75 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 23, 2015, 01:31:04 PM »

I would certainly spend some quality time chasing down the short...otherwise you'll wind up like me. Stranded on the side of a back road, out of cell range of course. That was a long, 4 mile walk in boots in the July heat.
Mine was caused by the ignition switch block being pulled loose just enough when I would turn the steering to the right. Took some time to figure that one out believe it or not.
Anyway, when it comes to wiring, process of elimination is your friend. (and maybe a cold beverage...or two)

mrfish2 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 25, 2015, 08:53:39 AM »

Yeah it's gonna take some time to find this gremlin!

So everything was working after shorting the battery, then yesterday i turned it on, pressed the starter button, and everything went dark again. I thought "okay cool, that gives me a good place to start tracing wire." Well, in the meantime i tried the "hot wire" trick again, and everything lit back up except my tail light. For kicks i turned the key off and back on to see if everything worked still, and wouldn't ya know it, no lights came back on!

Feels like there is a ground somewhere not making good contact, the hard part is just finding it.

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #24 on:** October 25, 2015, 12:53:59 PM »

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 25, 2015, 08:53:39 AM

Feels like there is a ground somewhere not making good contact, the hard part is just finding it.

That was going to be my suggestion. The main ground should connect to the engine mount at the right rear of the engine, above the rear brake lever. Take this connection loose, clean the cable end, clean the part of the engine where this ground connection is made, clean the contact point where the cable end touches the bracket (where it will sandwich this ground connection to the engine), and maybe clean some paint off the back of the bracket as well as off the frame where this bracket bolts to the frame. Might clean the threads where this bracket bolts to the frame too.

HondaMan · « **Reply #25 on:** October 25, 2015, 06:24:26 PM »

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 25, 2015, 08:53:39 AM

Yeah it's gonna take some time to find this gremlin!

So everything was working after shorting the battery, then yesterday i turned it on, pressed the starter button, and everything went dark again. I thought "okay cool, that gives me a good place to start tracing wire." Well, in the meantime i tried the "hot wire" trick again, and everything lit back up except my tail light. For kicks i turned the key off and back on to see if everything worked still, and wouldn't ya know it, no lights came back on!

Feels like there is a ground somewhere not making good contact, the hard part is just finding it.

More often on these bikes, it is a Red (or Red-White) wire's plug somewhere. The Ground happens in at least 2 places, so this is seldom the trouble with a bug like this one.

mrfish2 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 29, 2015, 08:18:58 AM »

When I tried your suggestion Hondaman with making a jumper to the black lead on the voltage regulator, what did it mean when no lights came on when I did that?

And also, the ground wire going from the battery to that rear engine mount is brand new, no reason to think it would be the culprit. The positive battery wire is still the original however, and from the years of sitting it does have just a bit corrosiveness on one end.

I'm gonna tinker with it some more today and see what I can find.

Don R · « **Reply #27 on:** October 29, 2015, 09:50:09 AM »

Cleaning the battery cable connections on all ends is a good place to start. I've seen this before, a corroded connection will come and go. Sooner or later it will go again.

mrfish2 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2015, 10:17:00 AM »

Well there's a good chance it was my battery ground cable. I disconnected from the end on the engine, wiped off all the dirt and grime, connected it back up and now everything is working again.

Airborne 82nd · « **Reply #29 on:** October 29, 2015, 12:23:28 PM »

Quote from: Restoration Fan on October 23, 2015, 10:55:03 AM

Sounds like you have a short somewhere.

I think you are mixing up a short with a open

HondaMan · « **Reply #30 on:** October 29, 2015, 08:21:16 PM »

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 29, 2015, 10:17:00 AM

Well there's a good chance it was my battery ground cable. I disconnected from the end on the engine, wiped off all the dirt and grime, connected it back up and now everything is working again.

Many times these ground cables end up in the wrong place: it shuold be trapped between the engine and the frame. Most of the bikes have it connected to the top rear left of the engine, INSIDE the frame. The removal and installation requires retracting that long bolt, at least partway. Honda has made the frame(s) slightly wider at that point, specifically to fit the cable's wide lug. The reason: this contact both the frame AND engine at one site. If the ground is attached to, say, the outside of the frame on the top left rear side, then the engine must ground through the dirty bolt while the frame is lightly clamped to the engine: not a real good ground system.

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #31 on:** October 30, 2015, 04:59:35 AM »

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 29, 2015, 08:18:58 AM

the ground wire going from the battery to that rear engine mount is brand new, no reason to think it would be the culprit.

Quote from: mrfish2 on October 29, 2015, 10:17:00 AM

Well there's a good chance it was my battery ground cable. I disconnected from the end on the engine, wiped off all the dirt and grime, connected it back up and now everything is working again.

All the "dirt and grime" off of a "new cable"? How did a "new cable" get covered with "dirt and grime" so quickly?

mrfish2 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 30, 2015, 08:55:41 AM »

Quote from: madmtnmotors on October 30, 2015, 04:59:35 AM

All the "dirt and grime" off of a "new cable"? How did a "new cable" get covered with "dirt and grime" so quickly?

The cable wasn't dirty, it was the mounting bracket. From what I can tell the bracket is being hit by a little oil spray from the engine (yes, the engine sprays a little oil from the head gasket). That, coupled with I had forgotten to connect the engine breather hose back to the air box and it was pointing straight at the ground cable and bracket, made for just enough build-up to cause a problem.

News:

Author Topic: Bike won't turn on, what should I check? (Read 5417 times)