Topic: minor refurbishment of CB350F (NOT)

[eunsan]

Greetings from Vancouver BC.

I recently purchased two 1972 CB350Fs that had not been licenced since the 1980s and had been poorly stored outdoors in the damp Pacific Northwest for almost 30 years. Every bit of chrome was rusty and needs to be replaced, plus both engines were seized (frozen rings) The good news is that the total cost was only $ 150 in the very poor Canadian dollar, or about $ US 112.

I had already seen a few similar "drivers" on Craigslist and Kijiji starting at $ 2,500, but they tended to say something like "great shape but have not been started since last year, carbs need to be "flushed", battery needs to be replaced, it fell over only once with very little fuel tank damage, or no title".

So, starting with $ 150, I now viewed this as a $ 2,500 project, ending with one bike that had been stripped to zero, repainted CBO, with lots of mechanical spares, while having fun at perhaps as much as $ 0.49 / hour.

I don't have the title for either bike, and cannot get it, so I am actively looking for somebody else's never complete project, or merely a titled frame. 

Since buying the bikes in August I have stripped them to zero, and note that other than the chrome that is universally toast, almost everything else is accounted for on one or both bikes.

I have now made 40 purchases, mainly on USA eBay, plus one border crossing to my mail drop in WA, for overhaul parts and replacement chrome and am into the bike for $ 1,500 and counting. eBay is working out quite well and virtually everything that I have purchased and picked up so far looks good to very good. There is lots of rusty chrome on eBay. The only real disappointment was the 6 piece "engine seal kit", the one in the green package. I have not yet come to understand why anyone would choose to provide such a kit since you have to split the crankcase to get to the "engine", and that kit does not include the replacement seals for the transmission.

So much for the preamble. A few points worth mentioning.

After wondering where I was going to buy the M18 x 1.50 bolt to remove the alternator rotor, it turned out that I had a  suitable spark plug thread chaser in my tool box. With slightly more than hand tightening, the rotor came off a with a few gentle hammer blows. 

The fuel tanks are both in decent shape, but rusty inside. I cleaned the first one by filling it with vinegar for four days. There was still some semi-loose scale on top of otherwise now bright metal. I decided to avoid a possible domestic conflict, so did not suggest tumbling the well padded tanks in my "wife's" clothes dryer. As has been suggested elsewhere, after draining to tank, flash rusting will occur, almost before you can neutralize the vinegar with baking soda.

Not content to stop experimenting with that de-rusting approach, I tried electrolysis, first by fully immersing a tank in a soda ash (spa pH plus) electrolyte, with a 12 V battery in parallel with a battery charger. Although the procedure is potentially workable, it was effective only in close proximity to the anode, where overnight it removed paint to bright metal. I next tried de-rusting it internally, but found that even with an anode run the full inside length, it was not particularly effective overnight, so reverted to 4 gallons and $ 10 worth of vinegar. The exterior will get "sand" blasted.

I bought the Taiwanese (Newsonsportec.com) stainless steel spokes that are continuously listed on eBay and have installed them in my now polished rear hub and replacement eBay rim. Unlike the OEM version (an option from Buchanan) they are single gauge and not swaged (otherwise called single butted). They are 3.5 mm dia. (0.136") and not the 0.125" / 0.158" diameter of the OEM swaged spokes.  Anybody have any comments???

I looked for, but did not find the SOHC/4 forum on wheel bearing removal until after I had completed that task. I will be buying the recommended expansion bolt for the rear wheel. What I did, and what worked quite quickly was as follows:

--All four bearings were frozen, and therefore sacrificial
--The Honda shop manual is not at all helpful, and Clymer is not much better.
--The Haynes CB400 manual says to first remove the left side bearings, so that is what I did.
--I tried the suggested punching out the inner race ( a very poor practice from the perspective of bearing life) but, as pretty much everyone else has commented, Honda did not provide enough shoulder to get purchase. I think that prior to reassembly, I will file two small cut-outs into one end of the spacer in case I ever have to do this again.
--I removed the shield from the left bearings, then used a sharp punch (a sharpened nail set would work) to destroy and remove the bearing cage. I shifted the balls to access and remove the back side of the cage.
--since the cage is the only thing that is keeping the bearing intact, you can now lift out the inner race, leaving only the outer race.
--In practice, I was too much of a robot and used my Dremel and a cutting disc to cut part way through inner hub, then split it with a chisel. Not necessary
--with the left bearing internals having been removed use a deep socket on the front hub spacer (the spacer has to come out through the right side) to easily drive out the right side bearing. In the case of the rear hub, the spacer design is different, and can be removed from the left side, thus permitting removal of the right side bearing by tapping on the outer race.
--The left side outer race is now well exposed and can be easily drifted out.
--It took longer to write this up than it did to remove the bearings.

Having said the above the expansion bolt approach sounds like a damned good approach.   

For your amusement (don't forget the $ 150 purchase price), I have attached a few photos, including day one.

Thanks to SOHC/4 for providing the parts book and OEM shop manual.

 cheers

[eunsan]

When I removed the rear bearings, by cutting the inner bearing race on one side, ( very poor practice) I was not paying attention, and destroyed then discarded the small "collar B".

As it turns out I was not the first person to do so (at least the discarding part) and in searching the Net determined that this part is very hard to source. This was surprising since it was installed on several 350 - 400 C series Hondas from the 1970s.

I stumbled upon this site in Japan, that has the part (listed under CB450F), although not identified by the Honda part number. I ordered it, received it in less than 1 week, it fits, and the price was almost unbelievable low.

http://japan.webike.net/products/21724533.html

I have now purchased a 5/8" expansion bolt, as recommended elsewhere, and will use it in the future.

Pistons

The pistons were quite fiddly to install both on the rods and into the bores. I ended up using the procedure that is described in "Haynes 400 & 550", in which pistons 2 /3 are installed into the bores first then 1/4, unlike the CB350F OEM manual that said to install all 4 pistons at once. 

I still have not been able to get title to the two frames, and may never be successful, but I did purchase a third bike with title. After advertising on Craigslist for > 5 months, turns out that there are not many "projects" out there, either CB350F or CB400F.

Cleaning Interior of Fuel Tank

I am cleaning the interior of one of the fuel tanks with vinegar, but one month later, after dumping and refilling it almost every day, it is still releasing small amounts of "scale". I have periodically added some 1/4" gravel and given it a shake, but not every time, so I guess that it would have been cleaner much sooner if I had done that.

[sbeckman7]

Love seeing another 350F project! As someone in a similar purchase position ($100 off Craigslist, sat outside for xxx years) I will say good luck 

[eunsan]

I should have waited one more day before I did the previous post, because yesterday, I actually removed the bearings from a rear wheel. I had by now bought an expansion bolt and intended to use that procedure, since it has worked well for others.

However, because I had a new Collar B in my hand (for the second CB350F), I wondered if there was yet another way in which to remove the bearings.

Here is what I did. A 14 mm Craftsman deep socket (perhaps any 14 mm socket) will nicely fit inside the left side bearing and rest on collar B . After applying  penetrating oil (ATF + acetone) to the exterior of both bearings, I gently tapped on the socket and the right side bearing easily dropped out. That exposed the outer race of the left side bearing. Using a long slotted screwdriver (or something like that) in succession on the three exposed outer race locations, it too came out quite easily. Even though the inner race is fully exposed, it is better to drive on the outer race, to avoid damaging the ball races. 

Piece of cake.