Topic: Im screwed....right? Caution using an o-ring chain on a 550!

[MetalHead550]

  I think I just bent over, grabbed my ankles, and took one in the a$$ on this one.  I noticed a progressively worse oil leak coming from the left engine side case covering the sprocket, oil pump, and gears selector shaft.  I heard that the seal around the selector shaft is a common location for leaks so I assumed that was it.  So I grabbed a new seal and popped it on this morning.  Took it for a ride and noticed oil splatter on my wheel.  Well crap!  So I took the the side case off again, cleaned off the oil, and fired it up.  I noticed bead of oil forming on the chain on the front sprocket.  So I took off the front sprocket and.......look at this.

As you can see my chain was rubbing against that seal and eventually wore through it.  I didnt realize there was a clearance issue in that area and didnt even think to look for one since everyone recommends o-ring chains.  What exactly has my chain desroyed and is there anyway of fixing it besides pulling the crank case apart and replacing that seal.  I have a feeling Im screwed and that my other 550 is soon to become a parts bike instead of a cafe racer   Anyway, anyone have simular issues?  I would be very cautious about putting an o-ring chain on a bike that was designed before they had em.  But its too late for me.  Damn this sucks! and its running the best it has since I got it and its beautiful outside!  Depression is setting in.

[MetalHead550]

Yeah the sprocket was on right. The little plate that holds on the sprocket went onto the groove without force so like I said, I didnt think there was a clearance issue.  The chain seemed to run fine with no funny noises but the picture speaks for itself.  The o-ring chain is about a half inch wider than the standard chain though!  Guess I shoulda paid more attention.  So on to fixing it.  I'll try some epoxy first but Ill definitly be fixing it properly when I have time.  Anyone want to buy a brand new(well 200 miles) EK x-ring 530 100link chain?  All it will need is a new master link. 

[don_m]

I haven't needed to replace that plug on my CB350F, (which is similar) but have replaced the output shaft seal without splitting the cases.  The complication is that both plug & seal have an alignment tab inserted into a hole in the case.  I mearly cut off the tab & aligned it as original & drove the seal into place.  While the seal has an oil feed hole which requires alignment, the plug doesn't. Just cut off the tab & drive the plug in.
Cheers, Don Psycle Madden.

[TwoTired]

I have marks on my 74 CB550 cases similar to yours.  I, too, was told by the parts counterman at Honda to use an o-ring chain on the CB550.  Fortunantely, I caught the interference before it was too late.  For years, I've been telling people over on the SOHC4 mailing list not to try this on the 550 and have been informed by a couple people they did it and it works fine.
I never believed them, though.  As, there are obvious and demonstrable clearance issues.  Not everything you read over the internet is true.

I haven't tried this, but I understand that you can use a narrower 520 O-ring chain on the 550.  But, you'll have to replace the front and rear sprockets with the compatible narrow toothed alternatives for the whole set up to work properly.

AFAIK the cases have to be split to propertly replace that rubber coated plug the chain chewed up.

Probabaly don't have much to lose by trying to patch it with something.  Clean it off really well and do a thin coat of JB weld maybe?

What a shame.  

[MetalHead550]

Thanks for the input guys!  I have JB weld setting up on it right now.  I cleaned the area with laquer thinner, then scored and sanded the surface before application so it should have a good bond.  Only thing Im worried about is how much pressure is behind that plug?  Is oil more or less being slung from the wet sump in that area or is there pressure from the oil pump behind that plug?  I imagine that would be the deciding factor on how well this works.  Man!...that chain cost me $85 and now its useless to me...any takers for $65? 

[Terry in Australia]

People tend to get over-excited about the benefits of "O" ring chains. A quality non "O" ring chain is just as strong, and with some maintenance will last just as long as an "O" ring. I can buy good japanese non "O" ring chain for $38.00 US for a 10 foot length, so why would I want to pay more than twice as much for handful of little "O" rings?

Re: your case damage, I like Mick's idea, my F2 cases have a sizeable hole where an errant 630 "O" ring chain punched a hole so the owner just slapped some "Araldite" over the top of the damage, and it appears to have worked fine, although when I stripped the cases I saw that the broken piece of alloy had been resting against the gears. No problem for you though, your damage is entirely different. Cheers, Terry.  

[the_genrl]

word terry!  A non-oring chain will work fine.  Also, i have faith in the epoxy too, it's held for me as well.

ive had a simmilar problem on different bike...except i only use a oring MASTER LINK not the whole chain.  boy, that was a stupid!     so if youre ever at the store and they run out of non-oring masterlinks, just order the right one and wait.

[MetalHead550]

What brand do you recommed for standard chain?  Little low on cash right now.

[Tim.]

Check out http://www.loudfastugly.com/ - go to the Chains section.

Non o-ring 100 link chains range from $10 to $28.  Cheap cheap cheap.  Or you can buy 100 feet of the stuff for $130 

I'll be sticking with non o-ring myself.

[Terry in Australia]

Get the best one that you can mate, that "Tsubaki" QR NP chain for 20 bucks looks brilliant! Don't give those cheap chinese or malaysian chains the steam off your sh*t, ha ha! Cheers, Terry.

[bryanj]

There is no pressure behind that plug except for piston blow by which should not be that high unless you have other problems. On the 500 there is a pushrod for the clutch and a seal there

[MetalHead550]

Ok.  Thanks for the link, tips, and info all!  Checkin on that Tsubaki chain right now.

[don_m]

To Dave & others,
I agree that cutting off the tab & driving in the seal is not the first choice, but first would be to split the cases.  I carefully aligned the seal before driving it in & that has been at least 15 years ago.  At the time I was commuting 200 miles a day on the old dear & had little time for repairs, (or anything else).
Cheers, Don Psycle Madden.

[Philly550K1]

wow.  that needs to go in a FAQ.  somehow i managed to hear about o-ring clearance issues before i went shopping, hence, i went with the aforementioned 520 o-ring with matching sprockets on my 550, which has been fine for a season and a half and 8,000 miles or so thus far.

i put so many miles on the bike regularly that it's been worth the convenience of not-as-frequent adjustment.

something about harnessing the collective wisdom of the group.  tough to know everything.....

-jc

[Henry Dorset Case]

Gawd I love these forums.

I am in the throes of ordering new chain and sprockets for my CB400F (today in fact!)

It surprised me that the thing had 530 chain in the first place given the (lack of) horsepower I would have thought 520 would be fine...

 I intend to remove the sprocket and look at my cases.

can anyone give me a heads up on # 520 sprockets to get:  the ones I have been quoted are (I think) JT and they are 278 -17T and 0278 - 38T both for #530 chain.

[doug_id]

Well, I got saved by Wykydtron on this....I just put a 530 o-ring chain on my bike yesterday....haven't ridden it yet...thank goodness.   

So if I go non-oring a 530 is what I want and that will work with stock sprockets?

Dodged a bullet on this one!!   

Thx,
Doug

[Gordon]

So if I go non-oring a 530 is what I want and that will work with stock sprockets?

530 non o-ring is the stock size chain for your 550.

[doug_id]

So if I go non-oring a 530 is what I want and that will work with stock sprockets?

530 non o-ring is the stock size chain for your 550.

Thx Gordon,

Will see if I can pick one up today.

Anyone want a brand new 530 o-ring chain at a nice discount PM me.   

Doug

[jensk]

I had the same problem since PO had put a o-ring chain on my 550 - se http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=18226.0.

I repaired my plug with Sikafelx which is e sealing product used by boatowners to seal the deck of their boats. It can withstand oil, water and temperatures up til 100 centigrades. Seems to bind and seal ok but to be honest i haven't had the opportunity to roadtest it yet since we have 2 feet of snow here and the bike is in pieces right now
/jk

[Raul CB750K1]

Maybe you remember my "chain and sprocket woes" thread. I checked the clearance and it seems good enough for me (it's a cb350 twin). I will have a second look though.

Raul

[enforcer]

I just bought a x-ring chain for my 750 K5.  Has anyone reported problems with clearance in the 750s?

Jake

[Terry in Australia]

I just bought a x-ring chain for my 750 K5.  Has anyone reported problems with clearance in the 750s?

Jake

Just throw it on your bike mate, and with the bike on the centre-stand, spin the back wheel with your hand, and if the chain doesn't contact the cases, you'll be ok.

Different brands of chains are different widths, so you might get away with it, you'll just have to suck it and see. Cheers, Terry.

[Raul CB750K1]

I just bought a x-ring chain for my 750 K5.  Has anyone reported problems with clearance in the 750s?

Jake

Just throw it on your bike mate, and with the bike on the centre-stand, spin the back wheel with your hand, and if the chain doesn't contact the cases, you'll be ok.

Different brands of chains are different widths, so you might get away with it, you'll just have to suck it and see. Cheers, Terry.

That's exactly what I did on  my CB350 -except of the spinning rear wheel-. The clearance seemed good enough for me (between .5 and 1 cm)  so I will be using the chain.

[jabbadeznuts]

Oddly enough, Honda just released a critical service bulletin about using O-ring chains on CB series bikes. Honda recommends that, under no circumstances, should an O-ring style chain be used on CB series motorcycles. They even said that it will void your warranty. 

[eurban]

Lions and tigers and O-ring chains OH My.   This thread reminds of me of the duct tape and plastic sheeting frenzy we had here in DC a few years back when the paper suggested that it was a way to proof yourself from a terrorist attack!  77-78 750s  came stock with a honking 630 oring chain.  Certainly these bikes are fine with a modern 630 oring and even better with a 530 one.  Earlier 750s are probably OK but as Terry says, check for yourself. Do what is necessary to measure clearances taking into account the inherent side to side slop in the front sprocket.  Also consider that front sprockets are available in different sizes so that what works with a 16t might not work with a 17t etc etc. I liked the mileage and adjustment free nature of the 630 oring that I had on my 78K for 20K miles enough that when I refurbed the bike I spent the $ for a pretty gold linked 530 one.