Author Topic: Samauto II RC1080cc, RC crank and Golden rods, 327 cam etc, CB750 Automatic  (Read 52634 times)

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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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POP'S,  that's going to happen, but I gotta finish it and sort it first! So much will have to go right for that to happen. Hopefully good news will come my way today!
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Bill, what up?  Cleaning pistons and singing the no parts blues! I think theae all saw turbo use, l know number 4 is marked, it's the one that had the bent exhaust valve!
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Medyo Bastos

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you using a polishing wheel?  are those 72 or 73mm?  i might have at least one other set of 73  ;D, but i do have some nos 72  ;D

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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No, by hand ,73mm RC Arias.
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline BPellerine

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always thought that turbos were low compression?billp
1978 CB 750K ard and webers
another anfob

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Bill, good point, but was just kinda musing that they all ingested sumpin, but upon looking and further cleaning, all the intake valves and pistons fought it out! Pistons usually win! Lol, Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline gschuld

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Rev limiters are good things....

George

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Real good things! Ordering another one today!
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Got the mags, learned .....not much, maybe only what Jon has preached from day one, wanna go fast on a 750 Automatic. ...build a better brake!!!!! LMAO, Russ had same problem. Gotta get info from Byron one day. .. soon!
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline dragracer

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Hope pursuit of this record works out for you Bill. You're working darn hard to make something happen.

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Frank, I may not set the record, but I plan on putting an Automatic in the 10'$ for sure!! ;D, Bill
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Medyo Bastos

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braking..




...Save a tree, eat a beaver...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 04:45:35 AM by Medyo Bastos »

Offline jweeks

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The problem isn't stopping after the run, it's keeping it from going before you want it to. The bike is in low gear, brake(s) on, and the throttle is wide open. The load on the motor keeps it from hitting the rev limiter. This is for about a second. During that time the friction discs slip, freeing clutch fibers into the oil. Those fibers have worn on piston skirts and sleeves. Sam's motor has shown that with the 836 pistons and the 915 ones. Significant wear. You can't change the oil too often! I run a race aluminum rear wheel with a small slick, the biggest diameter rear disc I can find, and will be running two dual opposed calipers to clamp against the rotor. The clutches are there for a smooth power delivery. The 450A has no clutches, launches the same way, and can keep oil in them for many meets without issue. If someone can figure out a way to eliminate the clutch pack with an on/off switch controlled by oil pressure, you're solving a major racing problem. An external filtration system to allow reusing the strained oil would also help control costs.

Offline POPS 911

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 A TWO STEP= all them others are running them = just listen to the sounds..... you can't run a slick they will see that [ jweeks ] in ST/ET
Watch Saturday night GRUDGE races = the guy in the other lane will not hear that DA DA DA DA DA in the last mili seconds before launch with throttle pegged open.

Offline TurboD

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POPS there is no need for a two step on a Auto, the converter limits the rpm. We want the highest rpm we can get, this is the reason everyone wants bigger and more braking power. The bigger better brakes help a little, but they only slightly help with the problem. We could jam a steel bar though the rear wheel completely locking it up, and the converter will still only stall so high.

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Yep stock stall speed 2600-2900, never saw more than 2700. New worked on converter, seen 3500.
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline dragracer

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The converter is always going to be the main problem to solve. The only way to get low ET out of any bike is by lowering the 60's times as much as possible. The only way to do that is to increase launch rpms. And just like an automatic drag car, increasing the stall on the torque converter is the only solution other than a transbrake. In this case, your "transbrake" is actually the rear brake clamping power.  Brakes, well, you can solve it like Jon Weeks mentioned. Bigger discs, multiple calipers and a lot of finger/foot pressure on the lever. Not sure if leaving off a button is legal in street ET as that is considered a starting line aid, so be careful about a line lock in that class. Eventually you will get protested- especially if you make rounds. Don't get caught up in that arrangement. Line locks are legal in pro ET.

Be mindful that the higher the launch rpm's, the greater the chance the bike will wheelie off the line, in particular with that big motor. Just take a good look at some of Chad Isley's pictures. Wheels up almost every pass. He's not a small fella but even his weight isn't enough to keep the bike on the ground. A nice extended arm and some good shocks will be your best friend on that Auto. Go rigid and you're asking for trouble. Unlike a hand clutch bike, you have two ways to regain control, the clutch lever that's already in your hand, or the throttle that you've been finessing since you left the line. On the auto you'll have a hand full of throttle even before you leave. Once again, get the chassis exactly right before trying to set the world on fire. I'm no auto fanatic but I do know something about dragbikes- i'll leave the details to our local  "experts".

Offline 754

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 Man I would sooner run a 5 speed than go through all that...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Hmmm, you right, I'm still trying to figure out where to plug this in, the head ain't got no matching port, but I KNOW Mike Rieck said if you Bill Benton they go together, someone help, last heard him mumbling sumpin about mushroomed stems,welded keepers, new trick he ain't showed me? Sumpin about 20,000 rpm. man how cool. I knew he could port, but 20,000 rpms, I'm in! LMAO,  In the meantime, I think I'll build my little 836cc hi comp engine that ran 11.55 smoking while I get a big bore kit for the auto,.0085 a little too much piston to cylinder clearance for me! Bill
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 03:48:20 PM by Bill/BentON Racing »
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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LMMFAO  ;D  The Blingmaster never gets bored......
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline jweeks

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Frank - Sam and I have been through this. Clutch guys use a line lock to hold bike on starting line with a dragging clutch. Sam asked the powers that be. Yes, line locks on rear brakes are legal in Street ET. It's considered a safety item. I don't assume, I ask. Hondamatics use the line lock on the starting line to prevent creeping forward, just like clutch bikes. I just leave harder when the line lock is released... I welcome protests. Educating fellow racers doesn't take long so long as the officials are doing the talking. Chain guard - check, lights - check, tires with tread - check, no two step - pull the tank - check, fuel shutoff - check. Protests won't take 5 minutes.
I have no idea how Chad got the front end of his Hondamatic in the air. He ran mid 13's with an old school big bore and nothing else. Stock converter so it left at a low rpm (3k or less). With my dragbike chassis Hondamatic, I can launch at 6k (modified converter) with no wheelie bars and not have any issues. Solid rear end about 10" over. I run a wheelie bar for the power wheelie the bike makes at around 7,500 rpm in low only. Front wheel comes up 2", bar hits, front comes immediately down. Throttle is wide open from the first yellow until you back it off after the finish line. The best launch I ever got was a 1.78. Remember, I'm  launching with the equivalent of second gear on a clutch bike. I run a small slick on the big engine Hondamatic since it races Pro ET. Hondamatics don't have to just race in Street ET.
Automatics are not clutch bikes. The  setups are very different. Give a guy who has been racing them since 1985 a little credit on knowing a little about racing them. When Sam wanted help, I tried to have him go with a big rear brake setup. The staging is different using a line lock. For a beginner, it was not welcomed. A hand control of the rear brake gives less pressure than a foot. That forces Sam to use part throttle launches to prevent red lighting. Someday, I hope to show you time slips on a Hondamatic with a foot rear brake and line lock. You've probably never seen a series of more consistent bracket timeslips. That's  why I say that it will take a Hondamatic to win the SOHC purse for Street ET. Vic came close with the Worm to winning Street ET at a couple of Cup events, but air changes cost him in the final. Low horsepower bikes are hard to dial-in. The fact that Vic made two finals with a ~50 hp at the crank bike speaks for the consistency of the setup and intelligence of the rider who dialed the bike.
Don't confuse your horsepower with mine. If I had a Hondamatic that had 150 horses at the rear wheel, many changes would be required. My stroker 1180 cc 'matic made only 100 horses at the rear wheel. There's at least a 20% loss going through a loose converter. How sensitive would any of your dragbikes be with 100 horses at the rear wheel? Apples and Oranges

Offline TurboD

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Frank is correct (mostly lol). Yes The stall speed of the converter ultimately controls the launch rpm, when a race car transbrake is activated it turns on both low gear and reverse thus locking the transmission up. This may allow for a very slight increase in stall speed of the converter, but not much. A transbrake works good in a car because it allows the car to remain in a neutral state when activated vs being "torqued up" as it would be if stalled up against the brakes.

The highest stall I could get from my auto was 2400 rpm. I would like to trim the stator fins some to increase the stall, this is not the proper way to go about it, but with a cast stator the options pretty limited and remaining on a budget.

Offline jweeks

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Removing some material from the stator increases the launch rpm if the motor makes enough power for the intended launch rpm. On an 836 auto with the stator modified, you won't see 3k. On a 1080 motor, like Bill is assembling, I got up to 4,200 rpm with the stator mod. Milling out fins and hand welding replacements at a different angle has given me 6k launches with very hard working brakes. That cost me $650 many years ago. Yes, it can be done by many converter companies. The easiest way to get it done is to give them the Honda Civic torque converter. So long as they think that they are working on car converters, the work gets done. Mention a Hondamatic bike converter and most don't want to be bothered. The package must be right to get there. The 327 cam on Bill's bike would ensure poor 2,500 to 4,000 rpm power if it stays in his bike. I wouldn't bet on above 2,500 rpm launches. More cc's help some, but more compression and or more stroke make more of a difference for launch rpms. Good midrange cams also have a big difference as shown on Sam's bike.

Offline Medyo Bastos

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what cam was on sams bike?

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Cam, haha, now that's a story until itself. It was running a RC 295 Dynoman cam at the end with 915, Stage IV head.  12.05 best ET,he backed off to not breakout, 1.912 best 60ft. Ran 7's in 1/8. 116.xx was best mph, but I got 119.xx at the end!
Scary as we never found out why Sam went down!
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE