Topic: something interesting

[DH]

I actually day dreamed about this idea, and wondered why it hadn't been done yet. Battery exchanges
taking the place of gas stations

. http://www.cnet.com/news/gogoro-scooters/#ftag=YHFd1c3725

[chewbacca5000]

It is a great idea, and I like how you think.  Problem is gas stations are owned by big oil and have a monopoly on what fuels can be sold.  They are really against electricity.  At the turn of the century back in the early 1900s they formed cartels and ripped out the electric trains in cities across the country and burned them.

If you want this there needs to be a public out cry to make it happen.  Big oil has lots of money and armies of lobbyist who pour money into politicians campaigns to write laws preventing competition.

Now if someone was to write a battery exchange app iand t gets rapidly adopted it could take big oil by surprise, and when they go to shut it down their would be the public out cry you seek.

 I like my CB750 and want to have gas as an option, but feel electric should be an option as too.

[calj737]

EV auto batteries are huge, and densely installed. So a DIY replacement is not viable. EV scooters, sure its very viable.

I've done some consulting with a Start-up on a similar approach for tablets for a single customer where they deploy them as work surfaces to Maintenance or Floor personnel. Secure storage, data retrieval/wipe, and provisioning all in a single "cabinet".

EV scooters in America can only exist in high enough population density cities, and thats a small footprint here (unfortunately). Heck, even taxi service in many cities is nearly impractical, let alone Mass Transit. Asian and many European cities its a terrific idea.

Chewy, gas stations here in the states are independently owned franchises. And to my knowledge, theres no restriction on "other" services offered at them, like actual Repairs, purchases, or electrical charging (if it exists anywhere). But auto EV charging at a service station is impractical due to the length of time it currently takes.

[chewbacca5000]

http://www.lovearth.net/gmdeliberatelydestroyed.htm

[calj737]

http://www.lovearth.net/gmdeliberatelydestroyed.htm

That was then, this is now...

[DH]

I know next to nothing about this kind of stuff, and figured it'd be pretty complicated with a lot of other issues, and know it wouldn't happen overnight. That with battery designs being a limiting factor too. But maybe for bigger bikes? And use industry wide standardized
size/type batteries? It will have to evolve, but it does look like a good idea. I like zero emissions. It gives me hope for a better environment to leave for my grandkids.

[calj737]

I like EVs. They are fast, torque-filled monsters, and you just get in and go! No warm up, no waiting. Recharge rates and driving range are major limiters for me and my driving requirements. But, if I were a more urban-centric dweller, Id have an EV auto and bike for commuting and errands, no doubt!

I've done other work with a home-based central wireless recharging center for all your devices and small appliances. Consider the central device a large battery that distributes power wirelessly in a much more efficient manner to anything within "wave-shot" of it. Even a car-based unit is under development for changing smart devices in the vehicle.

Moral is theres lots of R&D going into Electrical charing/recharging systems for all things. Solar-tint paint, panels and fabrics to make devices less dependent on grid power. Cleaner and cheaper is coming... Now, if we could just get India, China, Brazil, Mexico and others to follow suit!

[chewbacca5000]

Wireless charging is really trick!

I love your idea.  Battery storage is the problem imo.  You would need an automated system to store and move the batteries around and plug them into the scooter.  Essentially a battery robot which would be extremely expensive.  Think of a giant CNC machines underground the size of a 3 story building to move the batteries around.  You would need big money which means asking someone with big money.  Their money their rules.

Now here is a solution that is workable today.

This will make you feel better Check this out

They just swap the scooter vs the battery.  I like it.  I love using technology for good.

[calj737]

No, the scooter battery in DH's link is DIY replaceable. Its cars that wouldn't work because there are numerous batteries required. And they're not "removable" like this proposal.

I suspect the batteries in the link weigh in at less than 10-12Kg, so they're manageable.

Technology like KERs, solar paint, and others will extend driving range on vehicles. An option not discussed openly is "public wireless recharging" grids. Think back to your streetcar days. Overhead lines supporting all the transit routes. Why not create wireless grids along certain routes that any public vehicle could draw from while within proximity? Or device for that matter?

You could augment the central node with solar/wind rejuvenation to aide in its own consumption of power re-distributed. Or use hydro/wind/solar. Options are limitless for production, its the distribution that is problematic.

[calj737]

So, I'll go slightly off topic:

How many of us complain about enviro issues, yet don't own solar energy panels at our very own homes? How many complain about these issues, yet have never had an energy study done on our dwelling, or vehicle? It becomes readily apparent that the economics don't mete out with our morals. Solar is expensive to install, expensive to produce, and not really ecologically sensitive. But, their ongoing cost of ownership can be huge!

Solar hot water systems are possibly the cheapest to install. Solar panels on your roof doesn't take you very far unless the building itself is energy efficient. Traditional stick built homes in america are horrible envelopes for energy efficiency. but to tear off the siding and drywall, and re-insulate is very expensive. So new construction is the only viable target for LEEDs projects. But still construction techniques and technology take too long to infiltrate the "old timers".

Me, I'd love to see the Feds do 1 meaningful regulation nationally for a change and that is to require that a minimum percentage of all new residential housing (regardless of type) use post-consumer materials, and that all federally-funded commercial buildings (recipient of Fed $) use a minimum of 40% post-consumer, and have a LEEDs rating minimum. And every dang Fed building be torn down, sold, or rehabbed to meet these standards (save historical buildings of course).

Forget all the fuel standards and meaningless hodgepodge of industry regulations that don't effect our emissions, but instead focus on where we use 90% of all our energy (at work and home). Sign me up for that!

[chewbacca5000]

All good ideas Cal.  National standard would speed adoption dramatically.


I am using Scoot as an example of a good way to roll out an alternative form of transportation.  Rolling out 2,000 electric scooters in one very forward thinking city like San Francisco shows that the technology works.  People see it in action and it becomes accepted.  Wash rinse and repeat.

Put up a bunch of wireless electricity antennas overnight and you think the electric company is going to go for it?  Those wires give them complete control and they like it that way.  Got to outsmart them by not going head to head.  Out flanking is the only real option.

[chewbacca5000]

Wireless is pretty cool.  No need for a charging station or battery swaps.

[70CB750]

Cal, it is even simplier.  It starts at home with little things but it is always easier to ask the gubmint to do something than to inconvenience yourself.

My favorite pet peeve is Keurig machine - just because people are too lazy to measure coffee?

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/03/the-abominable-k-cup-coffee-pod-environment-problem/386501/



The best estimates say the Keurig pods buried in 2014 would actually circle the Earth not 10.5 times, but more than 12.

[calj737]

Cal, it is even simplier.  It starts at home with little things but it is always easier to ask the gubmint to do something than to inconvenience yourself.

My favorite pet peeve is Keurig machine - just because people are too lazy to measure coffee?

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/03/the-abominable-k-cup-coffee-pod-environment-problem/386501/



The best estimates say the Keurig pods buried in 2014 would actually circle the Earth not 10.5 times, but more than 12.

Oh, Im not a fan of the Gov't and their regulations at all, 70CB, just saying if they are going to write regs, write regs that matter.

I drink espresso, not coffee so I'm innocent 

[chewbacca5000]

I like solar hot air and water as it is very efficient and inexpensive.

[70CB750]

Just an example, I see so many people dumping recycling items at the county landfill.  And there is so much more, but my point is, it starts at home, everybody has a choice.

Cal, it is even simplier.  It starts at home with little things but it is always easier to ask the gubmint to do something than to inconvenience yourself.

My favorite pet peeve is Keurig machine - just because people are too lazy to measure coffee?

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/03/the-abominable-k-cup-coffee-pod-environment-problem/386501/



The best estimates say the Keurig pods buried in 2014 would actually circle the Earth not 10.5 times, but more than 12.

Oh, Im not a fan of the Gov't and their regulations at all, 70CB, just saying if they are going to write regs, write regs that matter.

I drink espresso, not coffee so I'm innocent 

[calj737]

Yep, I agree. And forcing the construction industry to use post-consumer materials to build is exactly the point. Stop filling landfills with inorganic material that can be re-purposed into usable building materials. It creates alternate economies, jobs, and reduction in waste. Also, theres less embodied energy when used properly.

It all adds up one step at a time. I'm undergoing a remodel project at the house now in an effort to specifically reseal my building envelope. I should see a massive reduction in my energy bills just by smarter utilization of products, heat/cooiling gain/loss and controlling the light into the house. That and a fully conditioned crawl space and attic.

Next spring comes solar hot water and possibly solar panels to take advantage of net metering.

[chewbacca5000]

My house was built in the 50s and I has palster walls.  I have added 3' of insulation in the attic and that reduced energy consumption, but with plaster I don't see how I can bump things up?

[calj737]

My house was built in the 50s and I has palster walls.  I have added 3' of insulation in the attic and that reduced energy consumption, but with plaster I don't see how I can bump things up?

Masonry exterior or siding? Insulating the cavity of the wall from the inside is very costly due to requiring the removal of the wall board. Plaster, NFW! Too expensive. And even removing drywall to re-insulate is not cost effective unless theres a significant remodel in the works.

I am re-siding my house (stick built) completely. Using sheathing, 2" rigid foam, then sheathing, then Tyvek. This seals the envelope completely from dissipation thru the studs. Coupled with foam sprayed in between the studs behind the drywall (I'm doing about 60% of all exterior walls as a result of the siding project already) it will raise the R value to over R-20 on the vertical envelope. Divide the cost of the siding and insulation over 10 years, and the expected reduction in energy bills, and I should be paid back within 7 years.

Then, in the Spring, I'll add solar hot water and look for a 3 year pay back on that (might be longer due to the already more efficient envelope). But each incremental change makes a difference, but increases the length of pay back because your bills get lower already. The ROI has to be based upon future expectation of $/unit of energy. Who knows what it will be, but regardless, I'm looking for the lowest possible monthly overhead I can create affordably.

[70CB750]

I always liked ICF construction, seems to make so much more sense than stick houses.

[calj737]

I always liked ICF construction, seems to make so much more sense than stick houses.

Me too. The only downside to it is the insulation MUST be sprayed with a fire-retardant covering. If it should catch fire, it produces a very toxic result. But for DIY, its an extremely good technique.

My personal favorite is AAC (Autoclaved Aerated Concrete). Its produced using Fly Ash in lieu of cement (residue of coal fired power plants) and is precast. Yields a 5,000 PSI block or panel. Weighs a fraction of a standard CMU and has about 6x the thermal mass. Waterproof (nearly), fireproof (nearly) and lightweight. Panels are available in wicked long lengths, and are craned into place. Envelope fully installed on a SFU in 1-2 days. Beat that for stick built!!

[70CB750]

AAC looks very similar to what I know from Europe.   Europe, with the higher cost of energy seems to be ahead in this area.

Getting way off topic here.


And you can cut it with a handsaw, right?

[calj737]

Well the title was Something Interesting...

I toyed for a few years with remodel/rebuild using AAC. I just couldn't swing it financially (to rebuild). Have to relocate the whole family during the rebuild and all that... Next house maybe 

[70CB750]

Yeah, I know how it goes, similar situation.

[chewbacca5000]

Ok I think I actually got a working solution for you.  To recap we talked about robotic battery dispensers, wireless chargers, and electric scooter rental.

Now here is something that could work closer to the way you want and there is already an example in use.  You know when you go to Price Chopper or Lowes and they have a propane exchange you could do the same thing with a battery exchange.

Batteries get locked up in a box and the store gets a small cut of the action to have the storage box on site.  At the end of the day the drained batteries are collected and recharged. 

You could geek out and have a charger built in the box.  The battery would need a case that works like a dim rail so it plugs in similar to a phone, or carera battery.

Lot of potential.  Still it will only be popular in cities.  You could have bigger batteries for electric motorcycles.  Capitial cost would be low it you start with a storage box then automate latter.  You could patent the shell and make a killing, and get recurring revenue from the juice.

Hope that makes sense.  Man I am doing good saved the world and raked the leaves all before dinner.

[chewbacca5000]

Where is OP?

[calj737]

recharging his batteries...

[chewbacca5000]

Turns out someone else in Taiwan is already doing this.  I don't even know why I waste my limited brain power.  With 7 Billion people on the planet it is nearly impossible to come up with an original idea.  Also with the change in laws from first to invent to first to file the American inventor is at a disadvantage.

Gogoro

[DH]

Ok I think I actually got a working solution for you.  To recap we talked about robotic battery dispensers, wireless chargers, and electric scooter rental.

Now here is something that could work closer to the way you want and there is already an example in use.  You know when you go to Price Chopper or Lowes and they have a propane exchange you could do the same thing with a battery exchange.

Batteries get locked up in a box and the store gets a small cut of the action to have the storage box on site.  At the end of the day the drained batteries are collected and recharged. 

You could geek out and have a charger built in the box.  The battery would need a case that works like a dim rail so it plugs in similar to a phone, or carera battery.

Lot of potential.  Still it will only be popular in cities.  You could have bigger batteries for electric motorcycles.  Capitial cost would be low it you start with a storage box then automate latter.  You could patent the shell and make a killing, and get recurring revenue from the juice.

Hope that makes sense.  Man I am doing good saved the world and raked the leaves all before dinner.

This is exactly what I thought of. But it'd only work for vehicles with small batteries. Vehicles with larger batteries could really change things tho. Stations could do full service again installing the batteries for the customer while they pay the bill and then be on their way. Just not practical yet..Man, those scooters in that vid are ugly.

[chewbacca5000]

I did not build them.  For some reason every new product has to have the modern look of an iphone or other apple product.  All smooth nothing sticking out.  You saw the charging station though?  I looks pretty user friendly like something you would use for consumer based electronics.

Not sure where your gandchildren live, but his electric scooter is really only good for big cities with no snow.  Denser the better.  That really narrows it down to places like San Fancisco.  Cities in Asia really pack people in.

[calj737]

Its a design language cycle, Chewy. History is filled with these "repeats". Think back to the '60s and automobiles. Soft curves, sensuous lines. E type Jag, Ferrari, 356, 300SL. Shapes influenced by LeMans and Daytona. Then the '70s. Squared off, bloated body shapes. Look at Plymouth, Dodge, Chevy. Then the '80s. Angularity was in (think TR7, MR2, Diablo, Countach, etc.) Then the '90s saw the return of slimmer "squares". Then in 2000, it was softer again, less discernible lines. 2010 saw the emergence of "chiseled" lines in cars against more aerodynamic lines.

Devices have become more "organic" in their interface and tactile form. Its only natural as the technology becomes small enough to be crammed into a shell where form can dictate its size and shape. Lighter, thinner, more subtle curves. These are all principles of Industrial Design language and Apple certainly has been a front runner in it for decades. And they mostly derived their original influence from a company called Frog Design, until Jonny Ive arrived on the scene.

All design trends are pushed by social culture. The more conservative society is, the more voluptuous design languages become to lead society into less "constriction". The more "liberal" society is, design language begins to "tighten up".

Clothing is effected by it too. You will see numerous symmetries in all these categories occur simultaneously: autos, fashion and "gear". Embrace it. You can not stop it from revolving.

[chewbacca5000]

Clothing is effected by it too. You will see numerous symmetries in all these categories occur simultaneously: autos, fashion and "gear". Embrace it. You can not stop it from revolving.

You won't see me wearing skinny jeans anytime soon.  That is where I draw the line.  No way I am going to duck tape my nuts to the side of my leg in the name of style.  My boyz need room to roam.

[calj737]

Probably the "guys" wearing skinny jeans haven't even had their pair "drop" the whole way yet. Explains how they can fit in them leotards 

[RevDoc]

Oh, Chewie!...you mean we're not going to get to see you "tucked & taped" and prancing around in Pilates pants? Damn!, I was looking forward to that spectacle.

[calj737]

Oh, Chewie!...you mean we're not going to get to see you "tucked & taped" and prancing around in Pilates pants? Damn!, I was looking forward to that spectacle.

Can you imagine how hairy his camel toe would be!!!! Yuk! 

[RevDoc]

Oh, Chewie!...you mean we're not going to get to see you "tucked & taped" and prancing around in Pilates pants? Damn!, I was looking forward to that spectacle.

Can you imagine how hairy his camel toe would be!!!! Yuk! 

ROFLMFAO! Good one, Cal !

[chewbacca5000]

What works for Adam Sandler does not work for 8' tall wookies.