Topic: The Jetting Process

[DaveBarbier]

This is what I want. Please tell me if it exists or if I'm asking too much...or if it would even help at all.

A sniffer that measures air/fuel ratios that you can put in the end of your exhaust. I just want 1 because I have a 4-1 but you could have more for those of you with 4-4s. These sniffer(s) are hooked into my iPhone through the dock connector. A simple throttle position sensor that I can quickly put on my throttle or on the carb rack that also connects to the iPhone. I want the iPhone to have an app that I turn on when I ride around and it tells me at what throttle positions I have rich or lean mixtures. Maybe with a graph of what's recommended overlaid with my graph. Then it gives recommendations on what I could do to alter it. Like raise needle, or increase main jet, etc.

...and I want it for $4.99

I think this would really help people with limited experience. Especially if the app were written with the knowledge of the smart people on this forum. Plus doing plug chops can be pretty dangerous. Riding balls out then sitting on the side of a highway waiting for your bike to cool and replacing plugs.

Pipe dream? Unnecessary?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Haha, waking up at 5 am to get to work by 10 will make you think crazy things sometimes.

Yeah, a dyno would be an alternative. And I have seen these other implementations but for those of us who don't know what air fuel mixture numbers mean and what then to do about it once we get those numbers, a little "Wizard" (like helping set up a printer or something) would help. So it wouldn't give you a bunch of numbers, it would just say, "Hey, you were a little lean when you were at half throttle, I'd suggest raising your needle a hair."

This would be a temporary thing too. Just to help you jet for pods or a hot cam or something. And at $4.99 it would be a lot cheaper than a dyno.

Let's say I book dyno time, I'd get a graph or numbers or something. Then what? I come here and ask what to do? Do the dyno people give me recommendations? Or do I bring all the jets and such there and play with it until it's good?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[evanphi]

Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno

[DaveBarbier]

Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno

A thought just came to me...maybe I'll check out a dyno?


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

I'll check it out, thanks. And I love me some good graphs!


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1978 Honda CB550K

[PeWe]

Dyno will tell the settings and what to adjust with knowledge about the carbs. Adjust and test again. Easier to let the tuner do the jetting complete with dyno. I have booked time for that. I have to wait almost 2 weeks more for that.
A/F meters:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/air-fuel-gauge
http://www.cmsnl.com/products/07-04-0032-compact_07040020/#.VTEsk5P5MSk

[evanphi]

Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno

A thought just came to me...maybe I'll check out a dyno?


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1978 Honda CB550K

Here ya go...

[DaveBarbier]

Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno Dyno

A thought just came to me...maybe I'll check out a dyno?


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1978 Honda CB550K

Here ya go...

Haha!


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1978 Honda CB550K

[DaveBarbier]

Dyno will tell the settings and what to adjust with knowledge about the carbs. Adjust and test again. Easier to let the tuner do the jetting complete with dyno. I have booked time for that. I have to wait almost 2 weeks more for that.
A/F meters:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/air-fuel-gauge
http://www.cmsnl.com/products/07-04-0032-compact_07040020/#.VTEsk5P5MSk

Thanks PeWe, but these have to have a nut welded on the exhaust, not sure if I want to do that. Might just call a few dynos in my area or just stick to the old school plug chop. Or maybe now just go and watch Jurassic Park.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[evanphi]

Dyno will tell the settings and what to adjust with knowledge about the carbs. Adjust and test again. Easier to let the tuner do the jetting complete with dyno. I have booked time for that. I have to wait almost 2 weeks more for that.
A/F meters:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/air-fuel-gauge
http://www.cmsnl.com/products/07-04-0032-compact_07040020/#.VTEsk5P5MSk

Thanks PeWe, but these have to have a nut welded on the exhaust, not sure if I want to do that. Might just call a few dynos in my area or just stick to the old school plug chop. Or maybe now just go and watch Jurassic Park.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Dude you're giving me way too much material...

[DaveBarbier]

Dyno will tell the settings and what to adjust with knowledge about the carbs. Adjust and test again. Easier to let the tuner do the jetting complete with dyno. I have booked time for that. I have to wait almost 2 weeks more for that.
A/F meters:
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/air-fuel-gauge
http://www.cmsnl.com/products/07-04-0032-compact_07040020/#.VTEsk5P5MSk

Thanks PeWe, but these have to have a nut welded on the exhaust, not sure if I want to do that. Might just call a few dynos in my area or just stick to the old school plug chop. Or maybe now just go and watch Jurassic Park.


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1978 Honda CB550K

Dude you're giving me way too much material...

Haha, love that version. John Williams would be proud.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[brewsky]

A few here have installed onboard o2 meters, but not for your price.

You could build your own if you are electronically capable, and there are instructions on the web how to do it pretty cheap. (at least for the narrowband type, which really don't tell you much)

You can pay a dyno shop to tune your bike for a few hundred dollars, which mostly tunes for max performance.

If you want to get picky and tweak the jetting for smooth all round performance at varying throttle positions, the onboard method can be better, but is also time consuming.

More info in this thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,131472.msg1467197.html#msg1467197

[DaveBarbier]

A few here have installed onboard o2 meters, but not for your price.

You could build your own if you are electronically capable, and there are instructions on the web how to do it pretty cheap. (at least for the narrowband type, which really don't tell you much)

You can pay a dyno shop to tune your bike for a few hundred dollars, which mostly tunes for max performance.

If you want to get picky and tweak the jetting for smooth all round performance at varying throttle positions, the onboard method can be better, but is also time consuming.

More info in this thread:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,131472.msg1467197.html#msg1467197

Thanks Brewksy, I'm trying to read all I can about this stuff. The more I read the more it seems like plug chops are in my future, haha.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[brewsky]

Of course, the easy and cheap way is to stick with the orig air box and filter type, use a baffeled pipe (if you don't have orig 4/4's), and just use stock jetting.

This also usually gives the best all round performance.

[DaveBarbier]

Of course, the easy and cheap way is to stick with the orig air box and filter type, use a baffeled pipe (if you don't have orig 4/4's), and just use stock jetting.

This also usually gives the best all round performance.

Yeah I know that. But that's not an option for me anymore.


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1978 Honda CB550K

[mca2]

Just to revive this thread...

I'm looking for the same thing: a wide band O2 sensor preferable combined with TPS in a data logger. I've been looking at the LM-2 offered by Innovate. But I have 2 problems: a.) i don't want to weld a bung in my perfect chrome exhaust b.) i haven't found any DIY solution for a TPS on our seventies carbs.

So, is it also possible to have a "sniffer" on the exhaust en guide this to the lambda sensor? Or does the sensor need very hot exhaust gasses? And does anyone have some creative idea to install a standard TPS on our carbs system?

[riverfever]

Dave I think this is a great idea and have wondered about it myself. My knowledge of this stuff is pretty slim (although I feel like I've learned a lot since getting this project). Living this high up (8500') has been challenging with this bike. I've considered having the bike dyno'd but running up to Denver still has me a little over 3,000' lower in altitude than where the bike normally functions. An app as you described wold be very useful.

[Don R]

I've got that and more on my dragster. I even briefly considered a temporary mount on the bike. it reads G force, accell and lateral, shaft rpm, engine rpm, crankcase vac, oil press, 12V on/ off, voltage, fuel press and O2 on one side of the motor at a time. I could add 7 02's, manifold vac, 8 egt's engine temp, trans temp, etc. We also record barometer, water grains, temp and wind. My laptop knows if the car will pick up or slow down.
 Trust me it's more than $4.99. by a wide margin. If someone builds it lots of them will be sold. Throttle position could be as simple as engine rpm's, already an electrical pulse and easier to record. Manifold vac could be taken into account and ambient temperature, an exhaust O2 probe could be used if it had a clip so it didn't fall out.
 It would be fun for sure, the technology is there, the price point is the obstacle. I'd happily pay a hundred for one. We download onto a laptop so a phone app could do it.

[DaveBarbier]

Throttle position could be as simple as engine rpm's

Throttle position is different than engine RPM. You'll need to know when you snap to WOT because that's when you'll be using the main jet. You could still be at 8k RPM and not using the main jet if your throttle is closed. But a simple rheostat or potentiometer could be hooked up to it.

But yeah, I'm most likely going to be going to a dyno, because I want HP/torque numbers with my 550 to 674cc swap, but this little app with accompanying hardware would be awesome. And at $4.99 it would be a steal!

Honestly, I'm surprised that some place like Dime City Cycles hasn't made something like this. It would be much easier and accurate (and cheaper) than reading plugs or doing dyno runs. I know it'll have to be more than $5 (that was more of a joke). Hell, I'd spend $150.

[DaveBarbier]

Oh I know DCC doesn't make anything...I think they do bend the rear hoops themselves, though! And I know most of their stuff is cheap Chinese crap but I am surprised they didn't find something like I'm asking to sell just because they could easily up the price a lot and market it as a "home dyno" or something. And I guess it wouldn't have to give suggestions, but in stead just give you numbers or something that you guys could tell me what to do . It just seems like every single "podder" asks what jets they should run. And I bet they don't do proper plug chops let alone pay for dyno time but rather settle for what someone tells them and assume the bike is faster than it was even if it falls flat. It seems like a market that would be receptive if it was priced reflectively low. Exhaust sniffer(s), throttle position sensor and an app connected to your phone. I think that's all that it would need.

If you can find me a good looking lady who owns a dyno PM me, haha.

[DaveBarbier]

I could hook up a rheostat as a bar end in a couple minutes! Yeah I know it's a pipe dream. I'm doing dyno runs anyway but it would be cool to make it. I have no idea how to make an app though.

[seanbarney41]

There is a thread over on KZRider where a guy did this.  He used the Innovate kit with the small data logger...about 250? bucks.  He positioned the wide band oxygen sensor in an inconspicuous place and plugged it when he wasn't using it.  He built his own tps with inexpensive spare parts that worked with his carbs(I think he had Mikuni 29mm smoothbores).  It worked.  He discovered that his bike performed VERY well long  before he achieved a nice smooth 12.5-14 af ratio curve.   ...bike was an over the top build of a KZ1000.
If I can find the thread, I will post it.