Topic: 1973 CB500 rolling restoration

[pookie]

I realized after posting two threads in the other section, that a proper project report may suit me better.  My first two posts were total newb posts, dealing with the wrong ignition key and rear brake issues. 

This is my first motorbike project that I am actually going to work on, and attempt to take from a metal lump, to a running moto. 

A little back story, I have always worked on Jeeps, air-cooled VWs, and Porsches.  When I got out of college and had a "real" job, I spent money on two things, my wife's engagement ring, and a old Porsche 911.  I figured if we drove away from the wedding in it we could keep it forever.  So far that has worked, and many many projects have come through the garage. 

A few years ago, I found a couple of old neglected BMW R25's that I thought I could do something with.  This being the better one:



And then promptly realized I wanted something more and sold them.  In 2002-3ish I remember having a 1978ish CB750 in the garage that I wanted to cafe.  (no pics) But I remember there was a title issue with that bike and I sold it to someone for parts since I couldn't title it.  Other than that there wasn't another motorbike in the garage until last year when I decided I wanted to commute on one.  I was DDing a Jeep Wrangler and the gas was killing me.  I wanted something cheap, not a 250-300, and had FI.  I ended up with a 07 Kawi 650r which I had until December. 

Sometime this summer I decided I needed a winter project. Initially I was looking at old Goldwings, Concours, and Ventures.  My brother in law recently got a Honda Nighthawk 750 so I started looking at those, which progressed into looking at the old CBs.  I really really like the old CBs and a couple weeks ago I drug home a 1973 Honda CB500:





I began to tear the bike down some, only to find out that where I parked it in the garage wasn't going to work:



I had to do a little garage reorganization before I could fit the bike in a spot where I could work on it and not have it blocking use of all my other junk.  The first pic I don't think the other members of the garage can figure out why this bike is getting special treatment



And where she sits now.

[pookie]

So far I have used the grease gun method to remove a stuck front brake pad:





I then used Pine-sol to clean the caliper

[pookie]

And I recently tore into the back brake to see why it wasn't grabbing like it should:

[przjohn]

Nice Speed Yellow Air Cooled. I have a liquid cooled Speed Yellow Cab.

 So, I have to say you have great taste in cars and their color. Also, You live in the best riding area of the East coast. You need to get that bike respectable and hit The Gap. We try and make it down there as much as we can. See you there!!!!

[pookie]

Thanks, let me know when you are down this way I'd be more than happy to meet up. 

And you don't think I live here by accident do you?...

[pookie]

I have BRAKES!

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,152854.0.html

Basically had to set the actuating arm correctly. This forum is a life saver. For real!

[calj737]

Make sure you clean the groove in the front caliper extremely well. The piston seal lives in there, and any debris accumulated will cause fluid leaks, and prevent the proper action of the piston. Don't scare the groove surface while cleaning, but do get it surgically clean. And use a new seal.

[marting100]

Nice bike! I really like that color.
Cheers!
M

[pookie]

While waiting on the parts I ordered to come in, I found something else to tinker with.  My chrome isn't super pitted or rusty, but some areas like the front fender had small tarnish spots. My google-foo told me that aluminum foil and water could clean the chrome.  Shiney side towards the chrome.  This is what a quick run with the aluminum foil did.  I was pretty impressed.

[pointerDixie214]

Nice thread – figured I would subscribe to save you having to email links.   

FWIW – if you want to bring out even more shine on that chrome, use some plain white vinegar on the foil, shiny side down.  Just be sure to rinse it off real good after so the acid (vinegar) doesn’t stay on it.

Did the same thing with the chrome bits on my Nighthawk 750 and Mrs. PD214’s 1972 Shwinn.  

Also – when are the black letters going on the 650R? 

[pookie]

Update- front brakes rebuilt and back on, wheel back on.

I ran into a little issue with the gas tank cap. The latch broke. Doh!

Also I hooked it up to a battery and am having some electrical issues.  I'm looking for some help.

First when hooked up to a battery all the lights come on and stay on, no matter what position the key is in.  The high and low beams work fine.  The turn signals do not work at all. The horn tries, but sounds kinda sad.  The starter button does not work.

Also, the bike is showing as being in neutral, but when I use the kickstarter it moves the rear wheel (currently sitting on the center stand) is that supposed to happen? 

Lastly

[Zaipai]

Nice job love the bike. GL with it.

.: Scott :.

[calj737]

First when hooked up to a battery all the lights come on and stay on, no matter what position the key is in. This is a pretty good indication of a bad igntion switch, in that the BLK, BRN and BRN/WHT are always on.

The high and low beams work fine. So your left switch housing is in order (maybe)

The turn signals do not work at all. Check the wire going to the indicators for voltage. There should be a solid ORANGE and a LT BLUE carrying 12v with the switch activated.

The horn tries, but sounds kinda sad. Check the ground wire at the horn. It needs to be clean (in the backside of the horn) and contacting good, clean metal on the frame.

The starter button does not work. So there's a YLLW/RED wire coming from the R side switch to the solenoid (under left sid panel). Does the solenoid even click when pushing the START button? Try jumping a screwdriver across the studs on the solenoid (bike absolutely in NEUTRAL, ignore the light)

Also, the bike is showing as being in neutral, but when I use the kickstarter it moves the rear wheel (currently sitting on the center stand) is that supposed to happen? Does the wheel spin by hand in this condition? If not, then it's in gear and your NEUTRAL light is improperly wired. It's a GRN/RED wire coming from under the left side engine cover in the large 8-way plastic plug.

[pointerDixie214]

Dang calj737 nice advice!  Can't wait to see this bike next weekend.

Oh and the family too I suppose. Haha

As for neutral- one thing my MSF instructor drilled into our heads was to ignore the neutral light, especially on a bike you have not ridden a lot. I would check the rear for spin. One of the huge benefits of having a center stand for sure.

[pookie]

Cal that is an awesome response. Thanks.

What I did was clean the main ground and now the ignition switch seems to be working. Well at least the lights only come on when it is turned to on now...  That was after I posted and I haven't worked on it yet. But to answer a few questions:

My fault, I should have been clearer, the neutral light was just staying on. In neutral or first. Now it goes out when put into first.

The solenoid makes no sound at all when the button is pushed.

I will check the wiring this evening and report back.

[pookie]

Out with the bike now.

Screwdriver across the soleniod does make the start turn. I tried it with the key on the top dot.

I'm guessing aftermarket horn has been spliced to the main harness just above the coils. I have the following splices:

Red wire from horn to light green wire in harness.
Black wire from horn to black wire in harness.

Black/white wire from right coil and black/white wire from left coil joined with black/white wire in harness.
Blue wire from right coil to blue wire in harness
Yellow wire from left coil to yellow wire in harness.

The only place I see the yellow/red wire is under the left side panel, where it appears to be spliced into itself.

I also popped open the right side clam shell and with the button pushed all the way in, it does not reach the connection in the switch.

I'm off to study the wiring diagram now...

[calj737]

Screwdriver across the soleniod does make the start turn. I tried it with the key on the top dot. Sounds like the button itself (righthand switch housing) needs to be opened and cleaned well.

I'm guessing aftermarket horn has been spliced to the main harness just above the coils. Test it with a temporary jumper. One wire from battery POS to either side of the horn spades, another wire from battery NEG to the other spade connector at the horn. If it blows loudly, you have a ground problem. Remove the LT/GREEN wire and make a new connection directly to the frame in a clean metal place.

I have the following splices:

Red wire from horn to light green wire in harness. This is not stock, done by PO, and its your GROUND for the horn.
Black wire from horn to black wire in harness. Good, this is the power to the horn.

Black/white wire from right coil and black/white wire from left coil joined with black/white wire in harness.
Blue wire from right coil to blue wire in harness
Yellow wire from left coil to yellow wire in harness. All of this sounds perfect.

The only place I see the yellow/red wire is under the left side panel, where it appears to be spliced into itself. Hmm, this sounds like a problem. This wire goes from the solenoid to the righthand switch control, specifically the START button.

So, time to get dirty. Remove the fuel tank. Open the right and left side switch housings. Clean all the connectors and connections one-by-one until its crystal clean. This removes all the corrosion and reduces the "resistance" in each of these circuits.

If you don't own a multimeter, best to buy one now. It will make troubleshooting much easier. Apparently the PO did some DIY splices. These tend to be a source of problems for owners down the road. It may be time to start restoring these. Perhaps you could post some pictures of each section so we can see and help guide you.

[pookie]

Cal- thanks. I took these earlier

[pointerDixie214]

Damn Cal that is awesome. I'm not even working on this but I am learning a lot from it.

Thanks for keeping to knowledge flowing.

[Trad]

That bike looked to be in pretty amazing shape to begin with. Nice find!

[pookie]

So not to be stupid, but two things, the green wire is split open and frayed, I assume the whole thing need replaced?  And do I redo the wire through the whole harness or just the bad section?

And second, so the bike has Kickstarter shouldn't I be able to use that to start the bike, even if the right hand stater button is t working?

[Restoration Fan]

Yes, you should be able to kick it over even if the starter button isn't working.

The starter motor is a high torque motor that spins really, really fast and has the ability to make the engine start turning over.  And the starter button's only purpose is to start that motor.

But you can do the same thing as the starter motor by providing that rapid torque via the kick starter.

One thing to remember though is that, unless you have disabled it, you have to hold in the clutch to start the bike...and that applies whether you're starting it with the starter motor or with the kickstarter.

[calj737]

One thing to remember though is that, unless you have disabled it, you have to hold in the clutch to start the bike...and that applies whether you're starting it with the starter motor or with the kickstarter.

This is not always true on the early 500 models. Hold in the clutch, or bike in neutral is all thats required. Many units didn't have the Clutch Safety Switch until 75->

Pookie - which "green wire" is frayed? If its one of the regular sized wires on your bikes, then clip the fray away until you get to clean, copper. Strip the sheathing and install a new terminal end and carry on. This is provided you have sufficient length remaining after clipping the end off.

[Restoration Fan]

One thing to remember though is that, unless you have disabled it, you have to hold in the clutch to start the bike...and that applies whether you're starting it with the starter motor or with the kickstarter.

This is not always true on the early 500 models. Hold in the clutch, or bike in neutral is all thats required. Many units didn't have the Clutch Safety Switch until 75->

Pookie - which "green wire" is frayed? If its one of the regular sized wires on your bikes, then clip the fray away until you get to clean, copper. Strip the sheathing and install a new terminal end and carry on. This is provided you have sufficient length remaining after clipping the end off.

True, I should have been more specific when I said "unless you disabled it" and said "unless you disabled it or your bike didn't have the clutch safety switch".

However, I will point out that one of the first things you learn in the Motorcycle Safety Foundation class is that you should always start the bike with the clutch engaged.  FINEC.
F - Fuel
I - Ignition
N - Neutral
E - Engine cutoff switch
C - Clutch (and choke if you have have it and neeed it)

[calj737]

Yes, Ron, that's a very good practice. But the clutch safety switch is more about Neutral than about being pulled in  for instance, sitting in the garage, neutral light on, bump the starter (or kick it). It's been my experience that kicking a bike without having to hold the clutch is easier for balance. But stalling in traffic (should that happen to you) it's a very good practice to grab clutch and kick or bump the starter.

[jonda500]

The kickstarter turns the engine via the clutch - you cannot turn the engine using the kickstarter with the clutch pulled in - you would only be turning the clutch!
In Australia/America, the 400 & the 500 didn't ever get the SSM (starter safety management), so they will start in any gear even if you forget to pull in the clutch.
John

[pookie]

Wow! A warning about how long this topic has been dead, I really dropped the ball...

Life, as many of you know it, got in the way.

I'm working on cleaning all the connections as Cal suggested and I have a question. I have a green wire, with what looks like a factory connection, not connected to anything on the left side panel. I assume...that this should be connected to something. But "where?" And "what?" Are the first two questions.

[calj737]

It may well be a spare. Certain models shipped to different countries with slightly different equipment, thus a few spare "grounds" were included. If everything is working as it should, it's safe to leave it abandoned.