Topic: More of this stuff ?

[edwardmorris]

And its getting worse Kev, unfortunately.

http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-muslims-mosques-protests-isis-135602220.html

[vfourfreak]

Thanks for the link Rafi.

The problem with terrorists, and I can even go back to the 70s in Ireland, is they are capable of causing outrages that produce a backlash against their own "people" in an atempt to further legitimise their cause.

It's an issue that is just hard to grapple with. But it seems to me that the response to terrorism, if leaders get off their arses, has to be fairly impressive. Sadly, and please lets not have a #$%*rain, I think the post 9/11 reaction may not have been best worked out. And maybe therin lies some of the present day issues.

Musing again. Damned if I know the answer.

Kev

[Retro Rocket]

It is beyond me how the US or any country in Europe will properly and adequately "vet" refugees. Their background and social records are dust in the wind at this point. They have been forced to flee the only remnants of their lives which are now under the control of ISIS.. I don't suppose the NSA or CIA can do a Skype call and sift their records to confirm a refugee's claims?

This whole scenario is very akin to the start of WWII and the Holocaust. Refugees, then prisoners, then victims of torture and murder. Their entire family history and rcords and assets seized and stolen and erased. Why we pretend to learn from history is beyond me... This entire affair should have been dealt with 5 years ago before it grew into the serpent it is now.

Civil unrest will increase dramatically as "nationalists" driven by fear lash out at groups of refugees, and those same refugees will respond by need to prevent further torment and driven by their own survival. It's going to be most unpleasant for everyone very, very quickly. Everyone except ISIS who will sit on the sidelines and watch the world tear itself apart.

Thats exactly what they want

[chewbacca5000]

And its getting worse Kev, unfortunately.

http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-muslims-mosques-protests-isis-135602220.html

Rafi,

The governments of the western world need to do something  and fast before this spins out of control.  Letting people figure it out on their own is not the answer.  Seeing grumesome images on social media only fans the flames of hate.  Hopefully our leaders will take decisive action to route out these scumbags so we can all feel safe in our homes.

[Retro Rocket]

this is an extremist problem, a religious problem, not a Muslim problem.

Sorry Retro, but just to correct you a bit. Muslim is a religion not a race. Arabian, Syrian, Iranian, Qatari, etc are races.

I didn't sat that very well, I was trying to differentiate between the "real" Muslims and the ones hiding behind Islam and using it to commit these atrocities, the same way they hide amongst innocent populations and use them as human shields, You can hardly blame the innocents for the crimes of ISIS ...  Oh and Cal, A Muslim is a follower of the religion of Islam...

[edwardmorris]

These scum would be no less evil if they claimed to be Buddhists following (some perverse interpretation of) that religion. They'd still kill the same. The only thing that'd be different is the group of innocents that faces the backlash as a result of their atrocities. Like Cal said, no religion ever teaches killing of innocents so they can't possibly claim to belong to one.

[chewbacca5000]

These scum would be no less evil if they claimed to be Buddhists following (some perverse interpretation of) that religion. They'd still kill the same. The only thing that'd be different is the group of innocents that faces the backlash as a result of their atrocities. Like Cal said, no religion ever teaches killing of innocents so they can't possibly claim to belong to one.

This seems to be their modus operandi get everyone fighting each other, put horrible things on social media, get recruits and keep escalating.  ISIS has no power, but what we give them.  Think about that for a minute.  Instead of feeding the hate engine go out and help someone anyone and put that up on youtube.

[bwaller]

Aerial bombardment on potential ISIS targets may make some people feel something is being done. A ground war may even conceivably "wipe out" this known enemy. The potential bigger issue is the unknown enemy, those actual nationals who have been radicalised and willing to commit murderous acts from within. We have no idea how many of these dangerous people are out there.

Not accepting those peoples fleeing their homelands is wrong. I understand the fear, but in this new world we cannot keep people completely safe at home...obviously. With them or without them.

Dangerous times indeed.


 

[vfourfreak]

It is beyond me how the US or any country in Europe will properly and adequately "vet" refugees.

European Union regulations only require a refugee to be recorded at their point of entry to the EU. Then they may go wherever they wish, with no further tracking. Rarely do refugees stay in the country of entry to the EU, they are interested (if economic refugees) in UK or Germany, or if terrorists rather than genuine refugees in whereever that have been ordered to go.

Once past the preliminary and perfunctory scan, they can disappear. Welcome to Schengen.

Kev

[james1007]

Amen. Wish all of these horrible things go soon. T.T

[petercb750]

Interesting this. He's well known here in oz and is quite a clever bloke. Not everyone agrees with what he has to say, but an interesting view nonetheless.
http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/entertainment/television/waleed-aly-hits-out-at-isis-over-paris-attacks-calls-them-weak/story-fni0cnd1-1227611388541

[faux fiddy]

In about 1968 Robert Strange Macnamara said the B-52's would be replaced within 10 years with a fighter bomber from General Dynamics. It was sold to congress allegedly with more range, speed, payload and efficiency.  It could only do one of those things at a time.

We've got all sorts of bombs just sitting around headed towards  their expiration date, and there are still a small fleet of these old birds that can deliver them where they need to be.  What's the problem?

[chewbacca5000]

Interesting this. He's well known here in oz and is quite a clever bloke. Not everyone agrees with what he has to say, but an interesting view nonetheless.
http://m.adelaidenow.com.au/entertainment/television/waleed-aly-hits-out-at-isis-over-paris-attacks-calls-them-weak/story-fni0cnd1-1227611388541

Lots of wisdom in those words.  I am sick and tired professional agitators who work to incite violence, any violence.  The news media and politicians feed right into the propaganda trap.  I was angry at all the police shootings only to find many of the shooting were instigated by a professional agitator bearing false witness against a black man.  It would go like this I see a man with a gun quick send police and the next thing you know is another tragic police shooting.

Meanwhile the professional agitator has it all taped and uploaded to youtube and is getting millions of views.  This is manslaughter and the professional agitator should be sent to prison. 

The rumor that 10,000 Syrian refugees hit the shores the other day is another example of professional agitation by bloggers.  They made up this rumor and it spread like wildfire causing massive division.  News people and bloggers should be required to fact check their information before hitting the post button.  Knowingly posting false information that causes others harm should be met with consequences.

Hopefully we will be smarter than all the groups that want us to kill each other.  All lives matter.

[chewbacca5000]

What you don't see is the professional agitators stirring up the trouble in the first place.  All the news shows is the fallout.  Many of these professional agitators sell T-Shirts and make their living off youtube.com, blogs and social media.

Stirring up trouble to get others hurt so a profit can be made is criminal.

[edwardmorris]

Thanks for the sharing the link Peter.

For those who are interested, this is another good read. It highlights a few important points, like how well the US has done with taking in refugees in the past and how strict its screening process is. Politicians screamed death when the US accepted refugees from communist nations fearing the worse, but guess what, nothing happened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2015/11/17/the-case-for-accepting-more-syrian-refugees/

[70CB750]

Refugees from communist nations were still from Europe, same people that settled USA.

BTW, looks like there were attacks planned for Hamburg soccer game for today.

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/germany-netherlands-game-canceled-stadium-evacuated-over-security-concerns-111715

Ambulance loaded with explosives, say some sources.

[chewbacca5000]

Refugees from communist nations were still from Europe, same people that settled USA.

BTW, looks like there were attacks planned for Hamburg soccer game for today.

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/germany-netherlands-game-canceled-stadium-evacuated-over-security-concerns-111715

Ambulance loaded with explosives, say some sources.

We'll that is good news that was prevented.  I believe the key to defeating ISIS is to not give into fear and emotion.  All political groups now seek to divide us, but we must be smarter than that and stand as one.

[petercb750]

Refugees from communist nations were still from Europe, same people that settled USA.

BTW, looks like there were attacks planned for Hamburg soccer game for today.

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/story/germany-netherlands-game-canceled-stadium-evacuated-over-security-concerns-111715

Ambulance loaded with explosives, say some sources.

We'll that is good news that was prevented.  I believe the key to defeating ISIS is to not give into fear and emotion.  All political groups now seek to divide us, but we must be smarter than that and stand as one.

They apparently have closed Hanover railway station now too, another suspicious article.....

[70CB750]

Friend of mine posted this:


So many people saying we need to pray for peace after the attacks that rocked Paris. This is not a time to pray for peace, this is a time to pray for real leadership who understand that sometimes violence needs to be met with violence. Men who know that the application of violence is sometimes not just the right answer, but the only answer. Men who understand that they may have killed a hundred plus innocent civilians, and now its time to kill thousands of terrorist who directly or indirectly supported such cowardly and low actions. Men who will put bodies in the ground, and souls in hell without regard for proportionality. That is what I pray for.

For those who are interested, this is another good read. It highlights a few important points, like how well the US has done with taking in refugees in the past and how strict its screening process is. Politicians screamed death when the US accepted refugees from communist nations fearing the worse, but guess what, nothing happened.

Certainly a perspective worthy of a read. The issues the author doesn't consider are: the US has been overrun with illegal immigrants for 30 years, to the tune of 12-15 Million already. The estimated cost to bring the 10,000 Syrians to the US: $1.2 Billion. Thats $120,000 per immigrant. If we expand that number to 65,000 as a candidate suggested, that number would skyrocket even further! Considering the hundreds of billions we've spent in the region in the past decade, and the trillions of dollars of debt we currently face, how then do you reconcile humanitary gestures that cause financial duress to millions for the sake of thousands?

There is not a single good answer to any of these situations. It is a region that's war-torn and a religious battle that has waged for thousands of years. How about we fight on their land together, free their homeland from invasion, and they all stay put where they would rather be in the first place? Invoke Article 5 at NATO and finish the job. Then everyone can return to their homes and pursue their lives as they wish.

[simon#42]

i would rather see us fight violence with intelligence , my worry is the people who are now making the decisions on what to do are the same people who have let this go on for 5 years
now we in europe have hundreds of thousands of refugees trying to escape a war zone . why was there no action until these people where in our back yard ? 
i suspect the bombing of syria is more to convince us in the west that we are fighting back than to actually achieve anything . ask any soldier who fought in vietnam , iraq or Afghanistan how easy it is to find the enemy
let alone fight them .
 isis is everywhere there is an internet connection  , not only in syria . the real danger comes from our own nationals who have been radicalised in the comfort of there own homes , we have been stupid for too long now we have to be clever .

on a lighter note the football match between england and france went ahead tonight and was a fantastic display of support for our neighbours .

[Bob Wessner]

Sorry all, best review forum rules regarding politics.