Topic: The most reliable motorcycle?

[70CB750]

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/04/who-makes-the-most-reliable-motorcycle/index.htm

[dhall57]

Not really surprised that Can-Am is up there, but BMW is a surprise

[70CB750]

Not really surprised that Can-Am is up there, but BMW is a surprise

I would think BMW failings are electronic gizmos and such and safety switches here and there - like kickstand switch - but Wobbly has a different experience with beamers.

[calj737]

BMWs have become incredibly complex bikes. Add to that, they had a very significant recall last year on their most popular model (R1200RT) for a suspension failure. They gave owners the option: a buyback by the dealer, or wait until a remedy could be developed (3-4 months). That recall really hurt their reliability rating.

Wobbly has also encountered catastrophic motor failure on 2 of his S1000RR bikes. I asked recently while at a dealer about that issue, and he could find no Service Bulletins about it. Don't know, maybe its a German model thing?

There is no dispute that the broad range of electronic features on these bikes creates a terrible likelihood for reliability problems. Yet, they also are unbelievable to ride because of this. The Gear Shift Assist for instance is surprisingly good. I'd love to run their K1300s with GSA thru the Blue Ridge or Dragon. I have little doubt it would be a significant safety feature. And their On Demand Ride Mode is plain old freaky. Every (modern) bike should have it.

And yet, I have a '74 airhead finally and look very much forward to riding it for the pure simplicity of it all. 2 Carbs and electronic ignition should keep it very reliable indeed.

[Wobbly]

Don't know, maybe its a German model thing?

I have the U.S. Model (U.S. Military Sales): the differences between mine and the European model are additional reflectors, an additional filter, one additional year warranty--and a much lower price.
Used engines are hard to get  because so many are needed. Mine is in the shop for over three months now. While a dropped valve on my Honda could be repaired (not that I ever heard of such a thing on a CB750 Honda), the BMW requires a new motor after such failure: 10,500 Euros, perhaps $ 12,000.
There is hardly a newer BMW that didn't have to have its handlebar switches replaced. I look at the used bike market, and there is hardly any RR wit mileage that has still the original engine. It's a great bike if you replace it every other year or, alternatively, don't drive more than 2,000 miles per year. BMW Munich pretty much explained to me that my bike is done for after 5 years and over 40,000 miles. They would give me a break when buying a new one. Yeah, right. I buy a BMW again. Three engine failures and an arrogant attitude from BMW make a loyal customer.
I replaced mine with a 2016 Harley. Could it be more different?
The newest member of the BMW motorcycle family is produced in China. Some of their engines were already produced there.

The reliable air-cooled Boxer engines don't produce enough power for today's demand. More importantly, they fall victim to the new environmental standards.

I am not surprised that the Japanese are the most reliable motorcycles. That reflects my own experience. Nor am I blind to what I observe around me.

[70CB750]

Popp and Rapp are spinning in their graves.

[calj737]

Mine is in the shop for over three months now. While a dropped valve on my Honda could be repaired (not that I ever heard of such a thing on a CB750 Honda), the BMW requires a new motor after such failure: 10,500 Euros, perhaps $ 12,000.
There is hardly a newer BMW that didn't have to have its handlebar switches replaced. I look at the used bike market, and there is hardly any RR wit mileage that has still the original engine. It's a great bike if you replace it every other year or, alternatively, don't drive more than 2,000 miles per year. BMW Munich pretty much explained to me that my bike is done for after 5 years and over 40,000 miles.

I remember reading your thread about this. Shocked at your issues, and very disappointed with the reputation of the SRR. Uber tech engine I guess? Or, I wonder if it has something to do with the fuel differences between road and track? Either way, it's pretty darn unacceptable if this is the norm and not the exception.

I have owned 2 Ks from the late 80s and early 90s. Neither were anything other than brilliant. I guess its why I keep tending towards a new K13s. And I just discovered, this will be their last year in production. Discontinued after '16.

The reliable air-cooled Boxer engines don't produce enough power for today's demand. More importantly, they fall victim to the new environmental standards.

More power!!!  I get the TUV emissions are very stringent, but really, a re-worked airhead is awfully capable. Maybe not to run at 150-160MPH on the Autobahn, but is that a requirement or a preference?

I am not surprised that the Japanese are the most reliable motorcycles. That reflects my own experience. Nor am I blind to what I observe around me.

Well Japanese cars, trucks and motorcycles all have their recall issues. Honda just issued a 145,000 bike recall over brakes. So I tae these "surveys" with a slight grain of salt. Not dismissing your experience whatsoever, just pointing out the Takata airbag issues, the VW Diesel emissions issues, the GM ignition switch, the BMW suspension problems, the Ferrari fuel line problems, the Porsche electrical systems, the... You get the point. More complicated=less reliable.

[Wobbly]

More complicated=less reliable.

It was not the "high tech" that failed my bike. It produces the same horsepower with properly hardened camshafts. The same goes for the failing rocker arms. The companies that supply the parts have to make them less expensive every year or lose the contract. It's expected that they get more and more efficient in production to produce them increasingly cheaper. That's the problem. Not quality counts but the cheapest you can get away with.  The other problem is that BMW does not care about its reputation anymore. Times have changed. I see the same development with other companies--Amazon for instance.
My problem is that I don't just own motorcycles--but actually drive them. And I do that long distance only. These bikes are not made for that anymore.
Because I ride all the time, spending a lot of time in biker hotels, I meet a lot of other riders who actually use their bikes. And what I see and hear from them confirms the experience in the article. The Japanese bikes are the most reliable--by far.

[ofreen]

 The other problem is that BMW does not care about its reputation anymore. Times have changed.

Really, that has been a BMW trait for a long time. They have never fessed up to the Paralever driveshaft issue in the airhead GS's or fixed it. All it would have taken to mitigate the issue is provide greasable u-joints on the driveshaft. But they'd rather sell you a new one for $800. The 'lifetime' final drive fluid was a ridiculous misstep. Failing ABS modules, 'power brakes', transmission circlips deleted, crappy bearings, wonky electrics, leaky neutral switches, easily bent (and extremely expensive to replace) wheels, Valeo starters falling apart internally, the list goes on and on. I like my old GS but it hasn't been nearly as troublefree as my 750. Not by a long shot and it has less than half the miles.

[Steve_K]

It always seemed strange to me,  how any bike could be made better for say $500 more at the factory.  Better bearings, electrical stuff, engine parts with very little more money.  Built to a price. I suppose.
Steve

[eigenvector]

My experiences with BMW bikes is markedly different.

I've owned a couple now and neither of them were shoddily build.  Sure BMW recalled the switches on the bars, and the ABS module failed on my 1200 GS - but the dealer was totally cool about it, swapped them out for free during my routine maintenance visits.  At no time have I felt they were shoddily built.  I ride 15 to 20,000 miles a year on my bikes, the only one I've ever owned that was high maintenance was my Tiger 1050.  I traded it out simply because the local dealer had an incompetent shop manager and staff.

I think many of the issues people have is not the manufacturer, but the dealer.

My personal opinion of BMW's direction seems to be shared here - that they would do themselves a favor by removing some of the farkle and going to a more basic design.  Problem is - farkle ups the profit margin, so that won't happen and I accept it as unavoidable.

I like my 550, of all my bikes that is undoubtedly my favorite - because it's about as stripped down as it gets.

[Wobbly]

I think many of the issues people have is not the manufacturer, but the dealer.

I didn't care about the defective switches nor the rubbed cables under the tank that caused loss of electricity while riding on the autobahn. But six breakdowns to include three engine failures is certainly not something I credit my dealership with. The cam shafts on the early models were flawed. BMW, knowing the issue, didn't issue a recall--because it was cheaper for them not to. When my first cam shaft failed--just like it did on the RR that the German MC magazine "Motorrad" tested, BMW refused to replace both. So, on my next trip, when I was 600 miles away from home, the second one went bad. On my last trip, first the front wheel bearing failed--partially melted inside--then a valve dropped which is fatal with the RR. The demand for used RR engines is incredibly high--because of their high failure rate. I have also seen other new R models that had their engine replaced already. There is nothing wrong with the engineering. It's the components that fail. The trip before my last and final one, the R didn't make it back on its own either. The regulator failed and left me stranded. I bought my RR new five years ago. It has always been serviced by BMW. The dealership also fitted it with tons of Ilmberger carbon. It has not ever been in an accident. I only use it for long-distance travels. I has the extended warranty. Still, it is a total loss now. So much about value.

I bought my CB750 new 38 years ago for about $ 2,000. In over 200,00 miles, I had a flat tire once. The bike is worth much more now than what I paid for it back then. I still travel long-distance with the Honda--the only thing I do with my bikes. These trips are always uneventful for the bike has not failed me once. The bike is in fantastic condition. From that you can deduct how well I treat my motorcycles. That did not make any difference with the BMW.
BMW Munich finds all this totally normal when I confronted them with my experience. After five years, they suggest to buy another, new BMW. They would cut me a deal, but won't lift a finger to get my RR back on the road.

This was my first and last BMW. The bikes are the worst when it coms to reliability as the report shows. These results match my experiences and that of the many people I know. Again, I take long, international trips at least once a month, lately twice a month--all year, and I thus meet a lot of other bikers who actually ride their bikes. I believe what I see, and I see most problems with BMW mc. Still, BMW has the highest customer loyalty--which does not indicate problems with the dealerships (Harley takes second place). I guess, it takes special people to put up with this. Here is what I learned from the BMW forums: If you have a negative experience, it somehow is your fault. If that doesn't work, it's the dealership's fault. At no time is it BMW's fault. Other companies must envy BMW to have such customers. I always preferred reason to religion. That's why BMW isn't for me.
By the way: the recent addition to the BMW Motorrad family (BMW - G310R - Roadste) is made in India. I know, that some of the smaller engines were already produced in China. Based on my experience, some of the components for my bike might have also been from there.

In short: my experiences confirm the report 100%.

[70CB750]

Wobbly, I could understand bad batch of camshafts, but failed ball bearing kind of completes the picture.

[Wobbly]

they would do themselves a favor by removing some of the farkle and going to a more basic design

It doesn't get more basic than this, yet...It's not the high tech that failed me causing six breakdowns. When I replaced all the wheel bearings on my Honda last year--after 37 years, they all were in much better shape than the crap BMW is using. I personally know two other guys with RRs who had their front wheel bearings going bad. Only in their case, they took the rim with them (cracked).
Picture taken in August--the same day my engine seized. I was in Austria that day. We got some top notch quality bearings for about $ 45.00 from a shop that sells tractor parts  They would last forever. I was travelling with my 15-year old son with this 200 horsepower bike. Imagine...

[calj737]

Wobbly - were you born under a Dark Star?  Dreadful to hear of your forays with the RR. And pretty shocking you've encountered that many "known" problems by the manufacturer. Yours has not been my experience, but theres no dispelling your ill treatment.

I'll have to do a lot more research before I pull the trigger on a new K13s for reliability issues.

Your history with that bike is akin to mine with a vehicle, but in reverse. I know heaps of folks with the same motor I have in my truck (6.0l PowerStroke). I have not had a single issue of the "known, class action stuff". But then again, I have taken measures to avoid them. A buddy has had his cab lifted 3 times, 2 turbos, all head studs and gaskets replaced twice, and he's eaten 6 EGR Cooling pipes. Mine, cab bolts still have factory torques stripes on them.

Don't know, with the production numbers of vehicles anymore, theres less quality despite more engineering and better materials/machining techniques being available. Lots to be said for older, handbuilt stuff in my book.

[Wobbly]

Wobbly - were you born under a Dark Star? 

Apparently not. Otherwise I would not have been able to take these pictures of my Honda that I bought 38 years ago. Pics are from this year. 
That's the point: the difference between my experience with the Honda and the BMW could not be greater. I care for both the same way, do the same trips (well, I didn't take the BMW across the Sahara like I did with the Honda). I have been very lucky with my Honda. And she's as beautiful as the day we first met in the dealership.

[Killer Canary]

Wow. You really do look after your machinery.

[70CB750]

And takes them to lookouts

Not the first pics with Wobbly's bike looking at something breathtaking.

Wow. You really do look after your machinery.

[eigenvector]

I won't fault you for being bitter over it, certainly a string of bad problems like that would sour me - it did on my Tiger.  But that simply hasn't been my experience, nor has it been the experience of all the people I know who own them.  Seattle is 1200 GS central.

I actually have had very few problems on any of the bikes I've owned - I don't count my 550 or 750 as those were cases of severe neglect by the previous owner and ignorance on my part.  But after being rebuilt they're are reliable as any bikes I've owned.
No reason to hate BMW owners because they're loyal though.

[Wobbly]

No reason to hate BMW owners because they're loyal though

I don't know what post you were reading, apparently not mine. I don't hate BMW owners just like I don't hate people because they vote against their own interests. I am simply stating my experiences. No body wishes more than me that they would have been more pleasant. No bitterness here, simply disappointment.  And I am also in a position to compare and contrast my experience with BMW with that of my 39-year long experience with Honda--which makes my experience with BMW look even worse. And the RR has probably the highest failure rate of all the BMWs. BMW failed me repeatedly. And it's not just the failure of components, it's the way BMW dealt with it.

I am happy to hear that all the people you know are quite happy with their BMWs. My experience, however, matches that of the above report. I can assure you that the above report was not my doing.

P.S.: I don't know the mc crowd in Seattle. I am located in Germany--home of BMW.

[PeWe]

Most reliable bike?
CB750 SOHC must be one of them!

[BPellerine]

don't know about bmw bikes but the cars are money pits when they get a few miles on them,but great to drive.bill