Author Topic: Weak Coils? 750 K6  (Read 1056 times)

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Offline timmytim

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Weak Coils? 750 K6
« on: October 02, 2015, 06:51:35 PM »
Seeking the opinion of the ignition guru's out there. I spent the long cold Chicago winter of this year rebuilding the 750 I stole from craigslist for $400. What a great experience and fun project it has been. My questions is this... When adjusting the timing the other day I noticed I got an inconsistent strobe from my timing light when the bike was cold. After it warmed up for about 5 min the light strobbed consistently and seemed like no problem at all. While the bike was running on initial start up it didn't seem to be running out of the ordinary...typical old bike start up needing to warm up a bit before it would idle on it's own. It doesn't seem to run poorly at all...ever so I never even thought I had an issue. Just something I noticed the other day as I was just doing some general maintenance of all of my bikes. Is this normal before warm or something that could lead to a future running/starting issue if not corrected? Below are the mods as it stands.

76 750K
Pamco ignition
stock coils
new wiring harness
Oregon Electrics combo reg/rec
stock battery AGM style
New plug boots

Thanks for the insights!
Tim
67 Puch 250 SGS
71 CB350
75 CB550
76 CB750
04 CRF230
07 CRF150
Doodlebug 6.5HP Minibike

Offline scottly

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 08:04:57 PM »
It's more likely due to a weak (lean) mixture than weak coils. A leaner mix requires a higher voltage from the coil to jump the gap than a richer mixture. When cold, the fuel doesn't vaporize as well as when the motor is fully warmed up, which is why the choke is needed for cold starts to enrich the mixture, then adjusted as the motor warms. With the pods and exhaust, you probably need to make some jetting changes.
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Offline pamcopete

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2015, 05:11:32 AM »
timmytim,

Do you mean that the strobe light itself misses a beat or two or are you saying that the timing is jumping around?

If you are powering the strobe light from the bikes battery, then after a start the battery will be low and that could affect the operation of the timing light until the battery regains its charge. Also, the engine idle may be inconsistent right after starting and the timing will jump around until the engine warms up and idles smoothly.

The dual oiuput coil produces a positive voltage on one plug wire and a negative voltage on the other. The strobe light works best on the negative voltage wire, but there is no easy way to determine which that is, so just try swapping the timing light to the other spark plug wire.

I recently tried to buy a decent timing light and went through three of them before finding a half decent one which is still not as good and stable as my 35 year old faithful timing light because like so many things these days, they just don't make timing  lights as good as they did back in the day, probably because nobody uses one any more on a Saturday morning to check their timing. It's mostly hobbyists and motorcyclist's like us that still use a timing light and we do not form a large exogenous demographic to sway the teenage MBA's who focus only on the bottom line when setting the budget for the teenage buyers.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 05:14:16 AM by pamcopete »

Offline timmytim

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2015, 07:55:31 AM »
Thanks for the quick replies guys! Sounds like a normal thing so we will let it be. It was the strobe ligbt itself i was talking about. Also, jetting changes have been made for the pods and exhaust.
67 Puch 250 SGS
71 CB350
75 CB550
76 CB750
04 CRF230
07 CRF150
Doodlebug 6.5HP Minibike

Offline pamcopete

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2015, 11:20:24 AM »
Thanks for the quick replies guys! Sounds like a normal thing so we will let it be. It was the strobe ligbt itself i was talking about. Also, jetting changes have been made for the pods and exhaust.

I forgot to mention that your bike is a winner.

I know you have heard this before, but the stock airbox and the little rubber thingies that connect the carbs to the air box are actually velocity stacks and there is no way in the world to get the stock carbs to work properly without them. You can partially mask the problem with jet selection, but in fact you end up with maybe smoothing out the huge flat spots at the expense of performance. I went through this whole process when I got my '74 CB750 which came with pods. I twiddled and screwed around with a variety of jets and theories and got the engine to almost run smoothly with various throttle positions, but it was never quite right and it didn't have the legendary pull your arms out of the sockets performance that CB750's were famous for back in the day. Fortunately, the PO included the stock air box with the sale so I sourced some OEM rubber thingies (not cheap!) and reinstalled the stock air box along with stock jets.

NIGH AND DAY difference. I have to hold on tight now because I have the legendary performance at my disposal and it's awesome.

So, if you have the stock air box and velocity stacks, I would suggest that you at least try it with stock jets. It may not have the "cool" factor, but it goes!

Here's a pic of my '74 Honda CB750:

« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 11:31:30 AM by pamcopete »

Offline timmytim

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2015, 08:09:36 PM »
Thanks for the nod on the bike pamcopete! You have a nice one there yourself. I will probably do some comparison with the stock airbox next spring to see the difference for myself. I see all of the fun posts on here with the pod or no pod debates. I like the look but do not plan to lose the side covers so if it runs better (I assume it will) with the stock box I will just go that route. Have a few more things to button up on it before I send it out for paint.

Question- with the motogpwerks 4 into 1 should I run the stock jets when I swap the stock airbox back on? I have 42's and 125's in there now for the current setup. Runs a nice tan plug currently.
67 Puch 250 SGS
71 CB350
75 CB550
76 CB750
04 CRF230
07 CRF150
Doodlebug 6.5HP Minibike

Offline pamcopete

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2015, 04:07:32 AM »

Question- with the motogpwerks 4 into 1 should I run the stock jets when I swap the stock airbox back on? I have 42's and 125's in there now for the current setup. Runs a nice tan plug currently.

Well, I'm no expert on exhaust, but obviously that would be where you would start. Stock air box, existing exhaust and stock jets.

Offline Godffery

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 11:06:59 AM »
It's not as much Stock Box vs Pods, as it is PROPER Pods.
Will the stock Air box perform better then those cheep Emgo pods? Yup, you bet it will.
BUT...
Will the stock Air box perform better then Quality K&N pod filters? Not necessarily.

The cheep pods don't provide a consistent controlled air flow, and only filter out sticks, stones and the occasional bird. If there is a cross wind or you ride with your knees in or out, it will effect the air flow which effects the Rich / Lean tuning.

The K&K filters (especially when using there Filter Wrap) address these issues. Are they more expensive? Yup. Is it worth it? Well that depends on how much you value your time & motor.

BTW:
4 into 1 Exhaust with K&N Pods should run 42 Pilots and 125 to 130 Mains with slide needle clips on 1st up from bottom groove.
4 into 1 Exhaust with Stock Box should run 42 Pilots and 115 to 120 Mains with slide needle clips on 3rd up from bottom. (Middle groove)

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Weak Coils? 750 K6
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2015, 01:32:41 PM »
Pete! Where'd you get that seat?!?!?!?
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

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CB750 K3 crat | (2) 1986 VFR750F