Topic: RE: Video Editing on a Budget?

[Zaipai]

Is PassMark - CPU Mark High End CPUs - Updated 26th of November 2015 relevant for video editing / rendering?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4790K+%40+4.00GHz&id=2275


It seem like itel is in the top half of the list and AMD is always in the bottom half.  Also, are some CPUs better for video editing?  If I can keep the budget under $1k I would be happy.  Everyone is raving about the i7 4790K.  I would not mind trying an intel after going with AMD for my last build.  Back then intel i7 920 whipped the phenom II.

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BX80646I74790K-i7-4790K-Processor-Cache/dp/B00KPRWAX8/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1448562923&sr=1-1&keywords=i7+4790k

For what you want to do 1k may not be possible that core I7 is pricey you still need a good $300+ video card not to mention the SSD and the motherboard. Motherboards are also key to getting great video rendering performance so don't cheap out on that either.   Also get good fast ram also figure a good rig will set you back an easy $1500 to $2000 or more depending on the deals you find.

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[chewbacca5000]

Your right $1,500 to $2,000 is more realistic.  What video card would you recommend?

[chewbacca5000]

I am glad I am not this guy, he spent $3,750 for an imac 5k retina and is not so happy with the 4k performance.  Apparently how a card can handle 4k is very important.

[Bailgang]

I am always glad to help! 

I don't have any solid numbers at the moment but I can get you some This Friday or Monday when the media team comes back.  A lot of times yes, many editors have 2 machines so when one is rendering or encoding they aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs lol.  You could keep your 955 machine and throw an NVIDIA card in it for after effects and have a new machine for encoding and such.

So I also am a computer geek and turn wrenches.

You and my son would probably get along great. What drives him nuts is that nobody that he works with can relate to him at all when he starts talking about his 750 or his car.

[chewbacca5000]

I am always glad to help! 

I don't have any solid numbers at the moment but I can get you some This Friday or Monday when the media team comes back.  A lot of times yes, many editors have 2 machines so when one is rendering or encoding they aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs lol.  You could keep your 955 machine and throw an NVIDIA card in it for after effects and have a new machine for encoding and such.

So I also am a computer geek and turn wrenches.

You and my son would probably get along great. What drives him nuts is that nobody that he works with can relate to him at all when he starts talking about his 750 or his car.

Yeah we probably be buds.  I wish I had keep up better on this hardware stuff.  It is getting more interesting as I am finding out how much the technology has progressed.  Also cheap too!  Glad you got a ssd life without one is painful.  Having your machine boot up instantly makes looking things up much more pleasant.

Be sure to ask your son how the production team is getting along with those two new video editing rigs.  I wanted the 6 core intel, but it added $600 to the cost.  I will got 8 core intel when the price drops.  I like the intel as you can run osx if you choose the right components.

[Bailgang]

Be sure to ask your son how the production team is getting along with those two new video editing rigs.  I wanted the 6 core intel, but it added $600 to the cost.  I will got 8 core intel when the price drops.  I like the intel as you can run osx if you choose the right components.

What I'll do is bug him into finding out what his password is and logon himself so he can send you a PM about it. If you get a message from username bailboy that will be him.

[Zaipai]

I am always glad to help! 

I don't have any solid numbers at the moment but I can get you some This Friday or Monday when the media team comes back.  A lot of times yes, many editors have 2 machines so when one is rendering or encoding they aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs lol.  You could keep your 955 machine and throw an NVIDIA card in it for after effects and have a new machine for encoding and such.

So I also am a computer geek and turn wrenches.

You and my son would probably get along great. What drives him nuts is that nobody that he works with can relate to him at all when he starts talking about his 750 or his car.

Same here.. I start talking about bikes, cars or doing stuff around the house and I see their eyes glaze over. that's why I am Godffery's tech support he would rather not deal with it all.

.: Scott :.

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[chewbacca5000]

Be sure to ask your son how the production team is getting along with those two new video editing rigs.  I wanted the 6 core intel, but it added $600 to the cost.  I will got 8 core intel when the price drops.  I like the intel as you can run osx if you choose the right components.

What I'll do is bug him into finding out what his password is and logon himself so he can send you a PM about it. If you get a message from username bailboy that will be him.

Much appreciated.

[Zaipai]

Your right $1,500 to $2,000 is more realistic.  What video card would you recommend?

Would you be doing 4k or less?
If your going to do 4k then a GTX970-TI dual cards would be best in SLI config, from the AMD camp an R9 390 if you can do two in crossfire that would be better.

If you will be doing less say 1080 then a GTX 970 or R9 290 will do nicely.

Also it depends on the motherboard (at this time I prefer Asus mb) and ram and hard drive config as well. Rendering at 4k your bottle neck is the software and CPU so using a mechanical 7200 or 10000 rpm will be fine and cheaper as long as you have at least 16gb of ram.

You can also do with less but render times will be longer.

You should set a budget and figure out how important render times and edit previews are to compared to you're budget.

.: Scott :.

.: Scott :.

[chewbacca5000]

Your right $1,500 to $2,000 is more realistic.  What video card would you recommend?

Would you be doing 4k or less?
If your going to do 4k then a GTX970-TI dual cards would be best in SLI config, from the AMD camp an R9 390 if you can do two in crossfire that would be better.

If you will be doing less say 1080 then a GTX 970 or R9 290 will do nicely.

Also it depends on the motherboard (at this time I prefer Asus mb) and ram and hard drive config as well. Rendering at 4k your bottle neck is the software and CPU so using a mechanical 7200 or 10000 rpm will be fine and cheaper as long as you have at least 16gb of ram.

You can also do with less but render times will be longer.

You should set a budget and figure out how important render times and edit previews are to compared to you're budget.

.: Scott :.

.: Scott :.

This is a good question as I would like to do 4k in the future, but from what I am reading the most popular workflow is to shoot in 4k, edit in 1080p, and export in 4k.  Even "monster" systems seem to struggle with 4k.  Youtube reconizes the 4k file and give you extra bandwidth for the download making your video look better.  I typed this into youtube why 4k video.

The major uses from what I understand of the more powerful cards are color correction and green screen editing.  Two good reasons.  I also learned that some people called colorist do this for a living and it is its own speciality. Not a valid vimeo URL

[Zaipai]

This is a good question as I would like to do 4k in the future, but from what I am reading the most popular workflow is to shoot in 4k, edit in 1080p, and export in 4k.  Even "monster" systems seem to struggle with 4k.  Youtube reconizes the 4k file and give you extra bandwidth for the download making your video look better.  I typed this into youtube why 4k video.

The major uses from what I understand of the more powerful cards are color correction and green screen editing.  Two good reasons.  I also learned that some people called colorist do this for a living and it is its own speciality.
[/quote]

Correct, while you would then be doing an upscale on the rendering from 1080 while editing and normally this is not desired however for youtube and other websites its perfectly fine as most of those sites do compression on the videos once uploaded. So while not technically 4K it is much better than 1080 if the person watching it has a monitor/tv that displays 4k and its a good way to be able to edit smoothly.

This is something people used to do with 1080 videos they would import the video in 720p mode and then render to 1080p for online sites. It works pretty well with most software.

.: Scott :.

[Zaipai]

What I am learning is that software hardware combination is critical to getting good results.  For gaming a 4 core with a GTX 980 is the way to go since most games can't utilize more than 4 cores.

For FinalCut Pro this poster says to use AMD and Final Cut is optimized for AMD
http://www.tonymacx86.com/buying-advice/179233-final-cut-pro-x-video-editing-hardware-software-z97x-motherboard-i7-4790k.html

Now première pro is optimized to use CUDA technology found in Nvida

Great info on real time 4k video editing http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe-premiere-pro-cc.html#
The Multi-GPU (2x Quadro M6000) is absolutely amazing and it should be at $4,000 bucks!

All this research is enough to give someone a splitting headache no wonder people just buy a Mac Pro and be done with it.

Yea, Final cut is geared to AMD cards as Mac's use AMD's in the new Pro's. However I would not get one yet. For a few years now Apple has been struggling to get the bugs out and get 4K and higher video editing to work and so far have failed.

The Quadro is a great card no question, however its pointless and really bang for the buck unless you render a lot of videos or work for a studio like Pixar its really not worth the money unless you have it to waste if so then grab one.

My two favourite cards for video editing is Nvidia GTX780Ti and the AMD R9 290 bang for the buck they deliver the 970ti is cheaper than the 980 but has the same number of cores and same clock rate on the memory and on the card bus (for the most part) and R9 290 is almost as good as the R9 390 but much cheaper and does almost as good a job.

The last video editing rig I put together for someone had 2 500gb SSD's, 64Gb ram, a Core I7 (Haswell-E), a Asus x99 mother board and a M.2 on board 128gb sata drive for the OS and two GTX780Ti's this rig was a beast! If you have the money take this parts list update it and you will love the performance. The price not so much, but this customer used it for business so I am assuming it is a write off for him.

Also at this point all major title games can take advantage of all the cores, if they are using DirectX 12, OpenGL or Mantle they can use all the cores. Games that use the Unreal engine I don't believe can do more than 4 cores however I would have to research that.

Feeling better about choosing one? Normally it would just be simple to say get a Mac Pro however until they fix the 4k rendering and editing issues I would hold off on that for now. One of the issues is the Mac because Apple choose form over function the Mac tends to run hot and keeps the software and the OS throttled back. Also the lack of expansion and lake of ports is a problem for some.

Right now I don't have a camera that does 4k and even if I did I run Linux have for years and right now the editors in Linux only do 1080. I was booting Windows with Linux but when Microsoft started sifting through my stuff I removed Windows 10 and went back to Windows 7 then they started putting that crap in Windows 7 and while I can disable it I felt it was not worth the trouble so I removed Windows from every machine in the house and loaded LinuxMint and the wife and kids are happy and now I am happy.

Bottom line is chewbacca5000 go with what you can afford. Youtube has many videos up by hardware guys where they explain what to get how to get it and how much it will cost. That will narrow it down.

.: Scott :.

[chewbacca5000]

Thanks Zaipai!  This helps alot.  Also found this write up on which video card to select for editing.  Warning long read.

http://ppbm7.com/index.php/tweakers-page/92-what-video-card-to-use

[chewbacca5000]

I can't get over how hardware is progressing.  It seemed to be stalled out, and now is taking off like a rocket!  Check this out

The Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD R is selling for $347 and data transfer is 2 1/2 Gbps!

Six years ago this would have taken 24 SSD in RAID 0 to get the same speed and cost $15,000+

Go to 1:58 in the video to see the speed.

$347 for 2Gbps vs $15,000.

[chewbacca5000]

This guy is saying that his 8 minute clip was taking 1 hour to render and the GTX 980 took it down to 15 minutes!  So I guess that answers the question of if it is worth it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/2zui2w/the_gtx_980_is_a_beast_when_encoding_with_adobe/

[Zaipai]

This guy is saying that his 8 minute clip was taking 1 hour to render and the GTX 980 took it down to 15 minutes!  So I guess that answers the question of if it is worth it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/comments/2zui2w/the_gtx_980_is_a_beast_when_encoding_with_adobe/

Yea, the graphics card can and often do make a big difference toss in a Intel Xeon (Core I7 with no built in video) with at least 8 Cores (4 cores, 4 threads) and fast DDR4 ram and the SSD you can get that down to a 1 to 1 that is an 8min clip would take 8min.. That 512GB M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD is great but you need to make sure you get a Motherboard that can support it and do it well. Lucky these days that is not as hard as it used to be.

You can check out this video this place will build (or help you build) a custom PC to meet your needs I have used them before nice bunch of guys.

This rig is a bit over the top but you would not need this much I am sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9m48H6fKHI

.: Scott :.

[chewbacca5000]

Thanks Scott,

That is some moster with dual 6 core xeon processors, but cost $7,500 in parts not to mention the labor.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/featured/Barnacules-Workstation-137

Sure makes me feel better about budget system.  I see where this stuff can get insanely expensive and fast!  You could drop $10k in a blink.

[Zaipai]

Thanks Scott,

That is some moster with dual 6 core xeon processors, but cost $7,500 in parts not to mention the labor.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/featured/Barnacules-Workstation-137

Sure makes me feel better about budget system.  I see where this stuff can get insanely expensive and fast!  You could drop $10k in a blink.

Yea, I work for a fortune 500 company and its nothing for us to drop 15k or better on editing rigs for media group. That is why its best to get a budget in mind and then do your best to stick to it and understand at that price point its as good as you can get.

.: Scott :.

[chewbacca5000]

Thanks Scott,

That is some monster with dual 6 core xeon processors, but cost $7,500 in parts not to mention the labour.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/featured/Barnacules-Workstation-137

Sure makes me feel better about budget system.  I see where this stuff can get insanely expensive and fast!  You could drop $10k in a blink.

Yea, I work for a fortune 500 company and its nothing for us to drop 15k or better on editing rigs for media group. That is why its best to get a budget in mind and then do your best to stick to it and understand at that price point its as good as you can get.

.: Scott :.

Thanks for all the help it is much appreciated.  I wonder what the final price tag was for the Barnacules-Workstation-137?  Also his storage solution looks slim compared to the rest of the rig.  I have learned alot feel that I am somewhat caught up on my hardware.  I am mostly a software guy myself so looking up all these tech specs can be exhausting. ha,ha,ha.

As far as my budget I am keeping it around $1,500 and hope I will be happy with my choices for the next year.  It really puts the whole price to performance thing into perspective.

[Zaipai]

Thanks for all the help it is much appreciated.  I wonder what the final price tag was for the Barnacules-Workstation-137?  Also his storage solution looks slim compared to the rest of the rig.  I have learned alot feel that I am somewhat caught up on my hardware.  I am mostly a software guy myself so looking up all these tech specs can be exhausting. ha,ha,ha.

As far as my budget I am keeping it around $1,500 and hope I will be happy with my choices for the next year.  It really puts the whole price to performance thing into perspective.

Yea, 1,500 should get you a nice rig. I know trying to keep all those specs in mind can drive you nuts. I keep a spread sheet with 3 tabs, 1 - Budget parts, 2 - Normal parts, 3 - High end parts and update it once a year and can form a system out of one of those tabs to fit the bill.. So if someone comes to me and asks for me to build them a system based on their budget I can quickly do that.

GL and I am sure you will enjoy that setup.

.: Scott :.

[chewbacca5000]

Thanks for all the help it is much appreciated.  I wonder what the final price tag was for the Barnacules-Workstation-137?  Also his storage solution looks slim compared to the rest of the rig.  I have learned alot feel that I am somewhat caught up on my hardware.  I am mostly a software guy myself so looking up all these tech specs can be exhausting. ha,ha,ha.

As far as my budget I am keeping it around $1,500 and hope I will be happy with my choices for the next year.  It really puts the whole price to performance thing into perspective.

Yea, 1,500 should get you a nice rig. I know trying to keep all those specs in mind can drive you nuts. I keep a spread sheet with 3 tabs, 1 - Budget parts, 2 - Normal parts, 3 - High end parts and update it once a year and can form a system out of one of those tabs to fit the bill.. So if someone comes to me and asks for me to build them a system based on their budget I can quickly do that.

GL and I am sure you will enjoy that setup.

.: Scott :.

Wow!  This is some great reading.  They benchmarked a dual xeon with 20 cores and the results are astonishing!  There is a huge boost with 4 cores for a simple time line and a complex time good results up to 8 cores, but not much after that.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-698/

Apparently a  single 5960x setup with a good mobo, 64 meg of ram is all most people will ever need. 

[Zaipai]

Thanks for all the help it is much appreciated.  I wonder what the final price tag was for the Barnacules-Workstation-137?  Also his storage solution looks slim compared to the rest of the rig.  I have learned alot feel that I am somewhat caught up on my hardware.  I am mostly a software guy myself so looking up all these tech specs can be exhausting. ha,ha,ha.

As far as my budget I am keeping it around $1,500 and hope I will be happy with my choices for the next year.  It really puts the whole price to performance thing into perspective.

Yea, 1,500 should get you a nice rig. I know trying to keep all those specs in mind can drive you nuts. I keep a spread sheet with 3 tabs, 1 - Budget parts, 2 - Normal parts, 3 - High end parts and update it once a year and can form a system out of one of those tabs to fit the bill.. So if someone comes to me and asks for me to build them a system based on their budget I can quickly do that.

GL and I am sure you will enjoy that setup.

.: Scott :.

Wow!  This is some great reading.  They benchmarked a dual xeon with 20 cores and the results are astonishing!  There is a huge boost with 4 cores for a simple time line and a complex time good results up to 8 cores, but not much after that.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Premiere-Pro-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-698/

Apparently a  single 5960x setup with a good mobo, 64 meg of ram is all most people will ever need.

Yes, but don't forget a good video card and fast drive, an SSD is good but a fast spinning drive will also work as most spinning drives will be faster than the software doing the rendering. However resist the temptation to use drives bigger than 2tb right now anything over 2tb has a higher failure rate then the ones below that..

Oh don't forget a good monitor for color reproduction and enough screen space for the layout you want to use. Speed is not that important but a good middle of the road IPS display will work nicely.

TTYS,
.: Scott :.

[FunJimmy]

Came across this great Premiere Pro "pro" tip for doubling your editing speed.

http://www.leftcoast.co/2015/you-can-double-your-edit-speed-editing-adventure-films/

Cheers

[chewbacca5000]

Came across this great Premiere Pro "pro" tip for doubling your editing speed.

http://www.leftcoast.co/2015/you-can-double-your-edit-speed-editing-adventure-films/

Cheers

Thanks for the tip!

[Zaipai]

Came across this great Premiere Pro "pro" tip for doubling your editing speed.

http://www.leftcoast.co/2015/you-can-double-your-edit-speed-editing-adventure-films/

Cheers

Thanks man.. Some good tips in that video..

.: Scott :.