Author Topic: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014  (Read 15241 times)

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Offline chewbacca5000

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RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« on: December 30, 2015, 01:22:50 PM »
I know some of you feel like you should be doing better earning more at your stage in life and I feel the same way.  Then a blog posted that stated that 51% of Americans were making less than 30k per year, and I had to look it up for myself.  It made me feel better knowing I am not alone.

Here is the official statistics from the Social Security department https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2014

Offline rb550four

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2015, 02:36:31 PM »
   Isn't that still POVERTY LEVEL ? I mean , if this country is as great as the rich people say, we should all be doing quite a bit better.
Oh oh, My mistake, THEY would be doing quite a bit better.

 
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Offline Bailgang

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2015, 02:49:31 PM »
I once met a foreign tourist that made the comment about the US being the wealthiest country. I replied what's your definition of rich and just exactly who is it that you think in the US is rich because it sure as hell isn't me.  :o
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2015, 04:36:48 PM »
Wow CalJ, I don't think that is very nice what you just said about me (up 'til about 3 years ago when I got a better job), Chewbacca, and any one else who works hard for little money.

Ever wonder why the top 10% of the wage earners in America (>$250k) pay 90% of all collected income tax? Its because 50% of the population doesn't pay any. Calculate in the enormous amount of benefits from State/Federal assistance to these low income families, and many actually earn well into the high $40sK and low $50k range. Freedom isn't a guarantee, its an opportunity.

Pretty sure Chewie pays his taxes, as did I when I was getting paid 12.25 an hour to do dangerous skilled labor in the wood working industry...and funny thing is, I don't recall recieving a single cent of state/federal assistance while I struggled to keep a float...I must have just forgot about all of that or something.

Chewbacca, you just need to go on out tomorrow and get yourself a real job like I did as we all know, Buffalo must just be bursting at the seems with opportunity...
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2015, 05:13:55 PM »
Guys not trying to start a debate here just trying to figure things out that is all.  If anyone could tell me how to bump my pay up that would be great.  I have a 4 year college degree, 15 years in IT and have been making less than $35k for the past 6 years.

After the taxes, insurance I had about $18k to live on.  To get that money I had to give 20 to 30 hrs free time to my employer and be available 24/7/365.

I know that I need to make serious changes as I am not confident $30k in 10 years will be enough to pay for the basics.  If anyone knows how I can get up to $60k here in Syracuse, NY it would be appreciated.

Offline Gene

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2015, 05:38:49 PM »
Chewy, you'll prolly not get what you're worth in the 'Cuse. Standard of living costs vary wildly. That said, a relo might be in order.
Economy is a dangerous thing to opine about.  Keep in mind that our general economic indicators are horribly out of date AND the "economy" does better when "productivity" is up - essentially meaning folks doing more work for the same amt of money. This equals wage stagnation which is where we will be for the next 3 years at least.

I didn't want to get in on this discussion but I just can't help myself. Cal is right about the data being skewed, but, imo, wrong about the reasons. It's not the economy itself that needs fixing - the economy doesn't care and reacts to input - but rather the Kind of economy we're running which is entirely consumer-based. Cal, you are well-read, this I know, and in one way I agree with you - end ALL subsidies, especially those to big business. We,however, have a duty as a Nation to take care of our less fortunate.

I'm sure I'll be back, but right now gotta run. Happy New Year you wonderful bastiches!
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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2015, 05:52:11 PM »
Ha, Cal it looks like wrote over each other. Understand, tho, you can't trust the IRS stats either.  This is about the fact that we have fully transitioned from a mfg economy to a service economy.  Chewy has marketable skills in a bad market. Wage stagnation is the issue, not taxes.

We do, in fact, have one of the "wealthiest" nations on the planet in terms of total income, GDP, GNP, etc. but that does not trickle down to the everyday working men and women. It's not evil, it just happens to be where we are. Until we change our ideals and dump the old ones we are doomed to failure. Adapt or die.
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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2015, 05:57:01 PM »
P.s. Sounds like we're running for office
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2015, 06:06:54 PM »
Fact is, we North Americans keep shipping our middle class jobs to cheap overseas labour pools. Most if not all large scale manufacturing is done in China and Mexico. Tach sector is already predominantly Chineese and increasingly going to India. Why? Because we want every thing for nothing and allow big business to sub out our jobs to low cost countries. As Americans continue to get poorer, they increasingly become dependant on low cost products. Short sighted or self fulfilling? You decide.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 06:09:39 PM by FunJimmy »
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2015, 06:20:17 PM »
Wow CalJ, I don't think that is very nice what you just said about me (up 'til about 3 years ago when I got a better job), Chewbacca, and any one else who works hard for little money.
What part of the statistics I cited (that come straight from the IRS website data) do you find "not nice"? Chewy cited some SSA data that a large portion of our population earns less than $30k and I provided some ancillary data and you get offended. Odd.

And the fact is, less than 50% of our population contributes $0 to the collected income tax. And, as I said, the top 10% contribute 90%. Those are the standing statistics for decades due to tax rates. Begrudge "those who are wealthy" but without their tax contributions, 50% of our population wouldn't get ZERO for assistance that is needed.

More frightening data is that since 1989 the per person income in the US has dropped form over $145k to under $65k. That's not because a small percentage of the population got uber rich, it's because of dopey economic policies that deprive the economy of growth and individuals of opportunity. Welcome to the economic slavery of your own making.
statistics smatistics...to me(and probably to many others in similar situations)it sounded more like you said the working poor does not carry their fair share of the tax burden.  To someone who is or has been in this situation this is extremely insulting.  If that is not what you meant, I apologize.  If that is what you meant, than I wish you extreme ill will.  Simple as that.
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2015, 06:38:13 PM »
I do not seek to insult those who have not insulted me.  Maybe that says a little something about the choices made that result in varying economic situations.
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2015, 06:52:37 PM »
Can't all work in an intellectual white collar corporate world.
Somebody has to do the work. Somebody has to produce.
That somebody should be Americans! Job creation is the key to prosperity!
Prosperity of the nation not just a few individuals and over paid CEO's.
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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2015, 07:04:05 PM »
Here is something I have NEVER understood: how can ANY economy survive as a "service economy"? Someone has to BUILD the 'stuff' that is to be "serviced", or the whole thing will implode, and quickly, as nothing is actually being produced.

...and software is one of the things that implodes faster than any other 'product' ever created, IMHO...but then, I've only been writing software since 1970, so what do I know?
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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2015, 07:10:41 PM »
Cal, I agree that we are going to see the income-disparity increase if we don't do something.  But, I disagree on the politics of it. 

The National Debt has very little to do with real-world workers on the ground. 

Jimmy - yeah, and the Philipinos are also being used to a great degree.  But, again, this comes back to the fact that our current issue - the "great recession (and the still-lingering effects of it) - Workers are not getting paid to the degree they once were relative to their skills.

For example, a coal miner out of work doesn't give a damn that the coal being used - in neighborhoods that don't have the clout to fight back - might actually be damaging the well-being of the residents in that community.  They don't, and they shouldn't, they only care about being out of work because of what is seen as an over-reaching environmental policy by those in charge.  They feel this way because that is what they've been told and they have no context to the real problems; i.e. people getting sick because of the fumes that coal plants produce. (another p.s. - this could turn into an entirely different argument).

BUT - if, for example, we offered, as a nation, job re-retraining for those put out of work by closing deadly plants, whatever they may be, we could be on to something.  For example, my wife worked for US Steel.  They closed the plant and offered retraining in computer basics and typing, etc.  She was hard-core blue collar but took the training, got a gig (a painful one), learned enough to get a better gig and eventually became a civil engineer.  I should mention that before the degree she went back into the oil fields and became a pipe-line scheduler - the money was great but not worth it. (this belongs on another thread I've been following, my apologies).

Anyway, the point is, we've an antiquated system of measuring performance, and it may well be that the "middle-class", which was once mostly manufacturers and factory workers, simply doesn't exist anymore.  None of this answers the question of how does Chewy make 60K in Syracuse, but maybe I just needed to get some of this off my chest.  Again, apologies, I'm sick as a damned dog and I have a New Year's Eve gig tomorrow night . . . so I'm rambling.

Chewy - sending a PM.
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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2015, 07:15:49 PM »
Can't all work in an intellectual white collar corporate world.
Somebody has to do the work. Somebody has to produce.
That somebody should be Americans! Job creation is the key to prosperity!
Prosperity of the nation not just a few individuals and over paid CEO's.

You're right - we can't all work in an office.  I don't want the guy fixing my plumbing to have a degree in philosophy.  But, until manufacturers get the clue that we are not going back to the idea of setting the Cuyahoga on fire (i.e. - deal with environmental restrictions and get the hell over it) we are stuck for now.

We SHOULD build things, we SHOULD be a leader in the world economy of manufacturing but we should also realize that these changes may result in concurrent changes in how we live our life, and maybe even the motorcycles we own.  I know that's sacrilege, but we are the smartest country on the damned planet!  We can do better.

EDIT: Hondaman, I get it.  It kills me too, but we have to come up with better, smarter ways to actually produce things.  And personally, I think we can, I just don't know if we've tried hard enough.  Like - can we produce a synthetic Zinc to work in our oil?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 07:18:42 PM by Gene »
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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2015, 07:20:25 PM »
BTW - I was looking originally looking for a thread on "rust" . . . anyone seen that?
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Offline Gene

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2015, 07:22:34 PM »
That's it!  Thanks Cal!
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2015, 07:44:03 PM »
Like a true politition Cal. All the answers but non of the solutions.
If you've got it all figured out, what then is the antithesis of your economic dooms day.
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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2015, 08:02:18 PM »
Like a true politition Cal. All the answers but non of the solutions.
If you've got it all figured out, what then is the antithesis of your economic dooms day.

Jimmy,

I don't know about Cal's position - Mine is that we need to start thinking more about how we can bring manufacturing back to the U.S. without damaging the environment and the people that live around that mfg plant.  To me this SCREAMS entrepreneurship in other manufacturing areas - such as how do we create a scrubber that will reduce the emissions for other mfg plants?  If we can just get a few people on board to take the chance at these emerging mfg technologies, they test it, it WORKS (hopefully), new standards are set, and the end result is economies of scale where everyone is making money.

I've driven across the country a ridiculous amount of times - I know what a lot of people see and say to themselves "how can we POSSIBLY be hurting the environment?  There's nobody here!  But, gasses by their general nature cannot be contained.  So, what is poisoning the air in AZ poisons the air in CA and MEX.  And vice-vice versa.

I don't have a solution, just a lot more questions.  I don't think it's the working people or the politicians that are causing the problems.  I think we're all trying to figure out how to keep living on this rock and feed ourselves and our families while we're here.  Not to put too fine a philosophical point on it, but that's the basic issue.

Again - sorry - sick.  Did a goofball (equal parts dayquil/nyquil) cuppa hot tea and a dram of whiskey . . . hell, I could be here all night.

Thank you, remember to tip your waitresses.

 
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2015, 08:16:37 PM »
Wow, even with the current exchange rate, $30K per year is crap. How you guys can live on that is just beyond me. Cheers, Terry. ;D 
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2015, 08:24:41 PM »
Fellas remember we are all friends here.  I am sorry I did not mean to start a debate.  As for me I am trying to escape the lower class as I am very concerned that my current wages will not be enough for me to put a roof over my head in 10 years time.

I am looking to join the 1% myself as I don't feel like living in a shack in the future.  Tiny house yes, shack no.  Technology has hit the hockey stick moment and is growing at an exponential rate.  How the masses are supposed to deal with this amount of change I have no idea?

As for me I am looking for an escape route as it appears the middle class ship is sinking, and there is limited number of lifeboats.  An internet based business is starting to look better by the day.

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2015, 08:33:27 PM »
Cal, I couldn't agree with you more with one exception. It may be recoverable, I hope it's recoverable, but a NATIONAL BANKRUPTCY is more likely.  :(  The National Debt is fast approaching $19 Trillion according to the National Debt Clock. Over $58,000 PER CITIZEN, over $157,000 PER TAXPAYER. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Where's the money? I did not get any of it but I apparently owe a lot and I did not sign any notes!  >:(

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2015, 08:37:26 PM »
I am all for small manufacturing.... Would like to do more of it..
Unfortunatlely most machining has been replaced by computer driven machines..
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2015, 08:50:53 PM »
There you go, Chewy, another e-Biz to put more Moms and Pops on the street!  ;)

You're right though, entrepreneurship is the backbone to a capitalistic economy. Good luck on your venture/adventure!

The way I see it we are all struggling a little bit to keep up with the breakneck speed of the internet.  Maybe a virtual assistant company company would be a good way to go.  I could help Mom and Pop keep their facebook updated, and open a shopify store so they can stay in business. 

At the same time I could provide them with chat support for Gary down in shipping who is always loading up his PC with viruses.  Man that Gary he makes me soooo mad!  This could be done from chat center in India.  Since it is chat the accent won't be a problem.  If they need to speak to manager I would just have them transfer to one of my VAs in America. 

Those darn virus removal jobs are and endless time suck being able to outsource that part of the business would free me up to do the high value work like playing angry birds or checking out the babe thread.

Thanks Cal your a genius!

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Re: RE: 51% of Americans made less than 29,999.99K per year in 2014
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2015, 08:53:40 PM »

We SHOULD build things, we SHOULD be a leader in the world economy of manufacturing but we should also realize that these changes may result in concurrent changes in how we live our life, and maybe even the motorcycles we own.  I know that's sacrilege, but we are the smartest country on the damned planet!  We can do better.


And that's the problem, despite what you keep telling yourselves, the US is nowhere near the smartest country on the damned planet, or else China wouldn't be kicking your arse. You've voted (well, some of you have voted) for governments who've allowed your corrupt, heartless CEO's to export your manufacturing offshore to reduce manufacturing costs, without exporting your workers, who are still being born, but born into economic misery.

My son brought home a 1950's era toolbox that belonged to his girlfriend's uncle, who'd recently passed. Every tool in that toolbox was made in either the US, Britain or Australia. While some of those brands still exist, I'll bet that most are now made in China. How smart is that?  :-\

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So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

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