Topic: Primary chains question/research - found them for 39eu... SWAG-30-93-9962

[MessnerMoto]

Or you can call Lamborghini dealer and ask for 07M109120B Lamborghini Aventador timing chain it is the same chain like SWAG-30-93-9962 but with 70links and I think it is open chain so it would be easer to shorten it 2 links
... and you can later say that you used Lamborghini parts in your cb750 

[Retro Rocket]

Hmmm, a Hondaghini, of lambohonda....sounds good....

[MessnerMoto]

So I can confirm this is HD prim. chain. SWAG-30-93-9962 is the part number like I sad. I paid it 39eu.... here http://www.auto-doc.it... free shipping inside EU..

[edwardmorris]

This is great! If the chain being open isn't an issue (or did I get that part wrong), then this will save many quite a few $$$ Thanks for the doing all the digging! Closely following your cam chain hardware too, will be needing one 

[RAZZ]

This is great! If the chain being open isn't an issue (or did I get that part wrong), then this will save many quite a few $$$ Thanks for the doing all the digging! Closely following your cam chain hardware too, will be needing one 

+ 1 & thanks !!



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[MessnerMoto]

Chains are closed they have 72 links... but they can be shortened to 68. Find it in thread

But that 72 links gave me one idea... Maybe something can be done with primary tensioner...

Do you think primary chains will work in this configuration?

[PeWe]

Risk for whipping chain when accelerate? Easier that chain will snap or damage cogs when chains allows to whip?
My drive chain snapped on autobahn when I did not take the time to tighten it at the previous gas stop. O-ring chain, not that weak.  Uphill on 5:th gear getting slower. Geared to 3:rd and full throttle..... snap.... engine no problem..

Too long chain will not hit anything? I'll check when open..
Good photos here of the open engine.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=78426.50

-Not possible to order correct number of links? I do not trust a shortened and re-riveted chain. Only if it is deliverd with masterlinks made for it.

[Captain]

Moved to Hypo cam chain tensioner thread

 Captain

[MessnerMoto]

Risk for whipping chain when accelerate? Easier that chain will snap or damage cogs when chains allows to whip?
My drive chain snapped on autobahn when I did not take the time to tighten it at the previous gas stop. O-ring chain, not that weak.  Uphill on 5:th gear getting slower. Geared to 3:rd and full throttle..... snap.... engine no problem..

Too long chain will not hit anything? I'll check when open..
Good photos here of the open engine.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=78426.50

-Not possible to order correct number of links? I do not trust a shortened and re-riveted chain. Only if it is deliverd with masterlinks made for it.

I am pretty sure all the HD chains around came out from factory with 68links     Ask a shop specialized for chains to rerivet it for you....

[edwardmorris]

If I'm reading the catalog in the first post correctly, then there is little difference between the G67HP and the G68HPF-2. I couldn't find what the second "Width Between" column is referring to in the pix so I don't know if that's a deal breaker. 500 less units on TS, and the overall width difference of 0.4mm may not be too bad for the drop in 68 link chain? I'm guessing that would still be an upgrade from the stock one?

Chain no.   Width Between   Width Overall   Roller diameter     Pin diameter    Height of plate     Tensile Strength    ?xx?    Width Between
G67HP       5,50            13,5            6,35                4,44            9,60                12 500              0,38    0,53
G68HPF-2    5,50            13,9            6,35                4,44            9,60                13 000              0,42    0,58

[MessnerMoto]

G67HP is weaker then G68HPF-2 because it has thiner side plates. It is probably stronger then stock chain but I personally can't guaranty it. But people are using G67HP in Laverda SOHC 750s and bigger Laverda engines... In same configuration like in cb750. G68HPF-2 is HD chain but you need to shorten it(rerivet) for 4 links...

[edwardmorris]

G67HP is weaker then G68HPF-2 because it has thiner side plates. It is probably stronger then stock chain but I personally can't guaranty it. But people are using G67HP in Laverda SOHC 750s and bigger Laverda engines... In same configuration like in cb750. G68HPF-2 is HD chain but you need to shorten it(rerivet) for 4 links...

I know you've done all the digging (big and many thanks!), do you happen to know how much difference between the plates?

[MessnerMoto]

If I remember the difference is in inside plates 1.6mm vs 1.8mm

[edwardmorris]

If I remember the difference is in inside plates 1.6mm vs 1.8mm

Thanks!

I know that G68HPF-2 has been confirmed HD, but after a long phone call with a senior member who's experience I trust, I'm not sold using re-riveted primary chains. I'll let others chime in, but at least for my application, the slightly lower numbers may just work out I am by no means an expert or even half as knowledgeable as some folks here, but to me the 0.2mm and 0.4mm differences don't seem to be a lot

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

500lb tensile strength doesn't seem like a big difference especially with 2 chains. But what do I know!

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Who out there has broken a stocker? What application?  Stock OEM ones still available,  German ones I like,  anything else, my .02, jury still out on!  Damn, just hit me,  wonder what Kenny was running when he had primary drive problems!  Dare I ask when I call tomorrow. ..Lol!  , Bill

[Retro Rocket]

If I remember the difference is in inside plates 1.6mm vs 1.8mm

Thanks!

I know that G68HPF-2 has been confirmed HD, but after a long phone call with a senior member who's experience I trust, I'm not sold using re-riveted primary chains. I'll let others chime in, but at least for my application, the slightly lower numbers may just work out I am by no means an expert or even half as knowledgeable as some folks here, but to me the 0.2mm and 0.4mm differences don't seem to be a lot

Don't be scared of reriveting a chain, lots of new O X and Z ring drive chains don't have a typical joiner link any more, yep, you rivet them. If you are worried about doing it yourself, get someone that knows what they are doing to do it....   Has your "experienced member" ever riveted a chain before..?   I imagine you could probably order them from the chain manufacturer made to any size..?

[edwardmorris]

Who out there has broken a stocker? What application?  Stock OEM ones still available,  German ones I like,  anything else, my .02, jury still out on!  Damn, just hit me,  wonder what Kenny was running when he had primary drive problems!  Dare I ask when I call tomorrow. ..Lol!  , Bill

Bill, the OE chains are great for street and even drag with not too big a bore size but HD ones are recommended for road racing where the RPMs are all over the place with relentless accel-decel cycles, leans and turns at high speeds etc. CCC's set obviously has been tried and tested and their document (earlier in this threads) shows has some excellent findings on stock vs HD, but the cost is the pain point that we're all trying to address. Getting the G68HPF-2 at the right length from the manufacturer would be ideal, but that itself is severly cost prohibitive with a min order requirement of 4K (see earlier in thread) unless someone can do better. Speaking just for my application which is mostly street with some track days/weekends, the G67HP still would be an upgrade from the stock ones. If I was only going to road race it all the time, then the G68HPF-2 or CCC's are nobrainer choices.

Retro, I can manage but don't see the point in taking the chance with it. Perhaps shortening it by using new pins for re-riveting may not be that bad? Either way, I don't want my engine to be the test dummy for that

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Is that 4K as in sets or $$?

[PeWe]

The german CCC prim chains made my engine less noicy. Less rattle at idle. That made the investemnt well worth the relatively small extra money.
I noticed that the chains were rather tight. Tensioner vs case measurement was 64mm. OEM chains have around 65mm slack when new, right?

My old OEM chains with around 35.000kms (20.000kms long touring) in my 836cc engine with around 80rwhp had 67.5mm in tensioner slack. The chains before were replaced at 65.000kms, not tuned engine but ridden very hard!

[kmb69]

Is that 4K as in sets or $$?

As in Euros.

[MessnerMoto]

Yes... I asked for a quote but if you order for 4K cost per chain is less or around 15eu. But HD chain is audi chain shortened and re riveted

[edwardmorris]

Just to have it all in one place, does anyone here have the specs for the stock chains like above?

[Retro Rocket]

Who out there has broken a stocker? What application?  Stock OEM ones still available,  German ones I like,  anything else, my .02, jury still out on!  Damn, just hit me,  wonder what Kenny was running when he had primary drive problems!  Dare I ask when I call tomorrow. ..Lol!  , Bill

Bill, the OE chains are great for street and even drag with not too big a bore size but HD ones are recommended for road racing where the RPMs are all over the place with relentless accel-decel cycles, leans and turns at high speeds etc. CCC's set obviously has been tried and tested and their document (earlier in this threads) shows has some excellent findings on stock vs HD, but the cost is the pain point that we're all trying to address. Getting the G68HPF-2 at the right length from the manufacturer would be ideal, but that itself is severly cost prohibitive with a min order requirement of 4K (see earlier in thread) unless someone can do better. Speaking just for my application which is mostly street with some track days/weekends, the G67HP still would be an upgrade from the stock ones. If I was only going to road race it all the time, then the G68HPF-2 or CCC's are nobrainer choices.

Retro, I can manage but don't see the point in taking the chance with it. Perhaps shortening it by using new pins for re-riveting may not be that bad? Either way, I don't want my engine to be the test dummy for that

You'd have to use new pins, I imagine this is exactly what CCC and CycleX are doing...

[MessnerMoto]

I am starting to do design of a primary chain tensioner and a slider. Checking all the measurements inside the cases. I am trying to minimize work on cases... For now it will only demand 2-3 holes for bolts on upper case for top slider