Topic: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build

[iiAtlas]

Hi Atlas,
Replace those lower cylinder liner rubber sealing o-rings;new ones should be included in a quality gasket set.I would like to caution you against using any kind of sandpaper on the lower cylinder block mating surface,you want to be sure that those machined horizontal surfaces stay as 'true' and square as when they came out of the factory(same idea w/ anyone attempting  put a file to crankcase halves mating surfaces  verboten/warning!) otherwise it could change the pitch of how the cylinders sit on top of the block.. a misalignment would certainly wear your pistons and cylinders out prematurely.I think it's better to just keep slowly and surely peeling away at the black surfaces of old gasket in one spot at a time;keep at it,you'll get there finally. 

D'oh!!  I completely neglected the importance of having this surface remain true.  I thought the sandpaper was a good idea......I will check to ensure I didn't create any high/low spots.  Should I consider having the block trued?  I do have a mill downstairs.....

Sounds like this may have not been the best idea - oops! 

[grcamna2]

Hi Atlas,
Replace those lower cylinder liner rubber sealing o-rings;new ones should be included in a quality gasket set.I would like to caution you against using any kind of sandpaper on the lower cylinder block mating surface,you want to be sure that those machined horizontal surfaces stay as 'true' and square as when they came out of the factory(same idea w/ anyone attempting  put a file to crankcase halves mating surfaces  verboten/warning!) otherwise it could change the pitch of how the cylinders sit on top of the block.. a misalignment would certainly wear your pistons and cylinders out prematurely.I think it's better to just keep slowly and surely peeling away at the black surfaces of old gasket in one spot at a time;keep at it,you'll get there finally. 

D'oh!!  I completely neglected the importance of having this surface remain true.  I thought the sandpaper was a good idea......I will check to ensure I didn't create any high/low spots.  Should I consider having the block trued?  I do have a mill downstairs.....

Sounds like this may have not been the best idea - oops!

I think you'll be ok as long as it wasn't a heavy amount of sanding;you still have the lower area at the bottom of each cylinder liner to keep it 'true',if they were removed it could have had more material removed.. from what i can see you possibly just began this process?

[iiAtlas]

I think you'll be ok as long as it wasn't a heavy amount of sanding;you still have the lower area at the bottom of each cylinder liner to keep it 'true',if they were removed it could have had more material removed.. from what i can see you possibly just began this process?

Yes, minor sanding.  I misinterpreted another members post in regards to sanding off the old gasket, d'oh!  I don't believe I wen't too far and the area directly below the cylinders was untouched.  Thanks for the heads up grcamna2!  I can't promise to not make mistakes...but I can promise to do my best to fix them!

[iiAtlas]

If it were me, I'd remove the liners, drop the block to the mill downstairs, and have it surfaced. Gasket gone, surface true. 5 Minutes work.

Invert block, repeat. Chuck up the head in vise, level, mill. Done. Less than 1 hour of work, perfectly machined, true surfaces. Install liners (with new O-rings below  ).

Thats counting on a competent machinist!  I'm a beginner there as well.  I have a cheap Chinese mill here, and a great Clausing machine upstate.  I'd only trust this job on the Clausing, but I haven't got that machine up and running just yet.





I'll stick with the scraping for now.  Should one day I need to backtrack my work and crack this engine open again I will be ready to step up the bore and mill all the mating surfaces with the Clausing   Hopefully it doesn't get there....hah...or maybe hopefully it does?  That sounds fun...

EDIT: In other news, notify seems to be working again!

[iiAtlas]

Ta-da!









Many solid hours and here we are.  As the sun set I gave her my final scrape...



That sure was tedious and I took some misteps along the way (sandpaper...  ) but alas, here we are!  A smooth, clean mating surface for the new gasket.  I'm confident I didn't go too far with the sanding, and I think the combination of blade and heat got this off the best I could.  Next up for me is digging into the bottom end!  Exciting

[grcamna2]

Nice job Atlas 

[iiAtlas]

Nice job Atlas 

Thanks grcamna!!  Here goes nothing....



The right side crankcase cover came out relatively easy.  A few gentle taps and out she came.



My jaw dropped when I saw this.  I wasn't exactly sure what I was expecting to see...hah...but I certainly wasn't expecting this!  Is that my clutch?  Are those the friction plates?  Feel free to laugh at me...I have never gone this deep into an engine before. 



This was on the kickstarter.  It was relatively spring loaded and kicked out when I pulled the cover off.  Not dramatically, I just wasn't expecting it.



Here is the other side of the right hand crankcase cover.  What is that arm looking thing?  It seemed to have an adjustment rod for pushing it in and out.  A nut and a slotted screw accessible via the outside cover, sorry for lack of pictures.  I felt way over my head here but tried to keep going and follow my manual.  Next up was the alternator rotor.



Yuck, looks like a bit of rust here.  Why would water be in this area?





I was able to disconnect the alternator from the engine relatively easily.  To my eye this looks okay.  I'll let one of you correct me!  As for the alternator rotor I didn't have a "puller" so I didn't proceed.  Do I simply crack that nut off then thread in a puller?  One like this?  I didn't want to take off that nut as I was afraid the engine would rotate in a way it shouldn't.  Is this something I have to worry about?  Or am I just making that up.  When I attempt to spin the nut on the rotor the engine will turn (or so I think....I haven't tried....)



I was able to remove the front sprocket as well.  Super rusted on there!





As for the shaft the sprocket was connected to, do I have to worry about the rust on there?  I will obviously be rigorously cleaning everything, but is that a replaceable part? 

I wanted to continue with removing the loads of top crankcase bolts so that I could split the two halves, but I was worried about doing so before removing the rotor.  My book listed the rotor as a step prior to the case split so I didn't want to disobey.  Can I continue removing the bolts and splitting the cases before pulling the rotor?  The book lists a "criss cross" pattern for the crankcase bolts but there are many and in random places.  Is there a more detailed torque/untorque order or should I just "criss cross"

Sorry for so many nonsensical questions....I am trying to piece this all together for myself as well.  Confusing stuff!  I am excited to learn more about this portion of the engine, and I thank you all in advance for the massive schooling I am sure I am about to receive...

[MoMo]

Loosen in a criss-cross pattern  starting with the 10mm head bolts and ending up with the main bearing bolts. Take the rotor off using an impact gun.  There is a special puller but people have used axles.  The rust you have is really minimal, in other words I've seen way worse.   The arm is the clutch actuator.  I admire your gumption- going into a total rebuild somewhat inexperienced....LARRY

[iiAtlas]

Loosen in a criss-cross pattern  starting with the 10mm head bolts and ending up with the main bearing bolts. Take the rotor off using an impact gun.  There is a special puller but people have used axles.  The rust you have is really minimal, in other words I've seen way worse.   The arm is the clutch actuator.  I admire your gumption- going into a total rebuild somewhat inexperienced....LARRY

Thanks for the tips Larry!  Gotta start somewhere...the way I see it I've got a couple of the brightest SOHC/4 minds a few posts away, there's nothing we can't do!  Glad to hear the rust is minimal.  I have no baseline for things like that.

[iiAtlas]

Progress!  I first attempted to take out the alternator rotor using my front axle.  No luck, wrong thread.  I will order the tool or maybe make my own.  Does anyone know off hand what thread that is?  Thank you in advance.

After that non-success I moved onto the clutch.  The front plate came out without a hitch.







The 25mm spring clip however.....



Was a real bastard.  Eventually I got the best of it, but it certainly put up a fight.



If there are any unknown tricks of the trade please, someone loop me in.  That was a doosie.  Anyways, onwards.  I'd never really seen a clutch before so this was awesome to break in to!







Cool stamp



Friction plate



Clutch disk (is this the right name?)



WOW !



What a beautiful sight.  I could see the gear shift mechanism, how the clutch engaged, the primary shaft off the engine.  Amazing stuff.  So great when it starts to "click" too.  I have a long way to go but the deeper I get the more I appreciate, and the more I ask the more I understand.  Amazing, amazing stuff.

I thought this was a curios splatter pattern.



And here was some slightly sludgy oil





Here is where I am now.  Step 7.





I believe this to be the primary shaft and secondary drive gear, correct?



The book states to "Remove the 12mm bolt (1)" however my bolt has a 17mm head.  Is this the correct bolt?



If so, how do I remove it without rotating the engine?  Thanks all!  So excited to be learning more and digging deeper into this engine.

EDIT: Woah sorry for the huge images, let me know if it causes any issues!

[iiAtlas]

Digging back into this tonight, was away for the weekend.  Wish me luck!

[grcamna2]

Great to see the clear pics Atlas;I think the manual is referring to the bolt being 12mm as far as the diameter of the threaded portion.I hope you have a 1/2" drive electric impact driver,it will make removing many bolts like that a 'piece of cake' 

[iiAtlas]

Great to see the clear pics Atlas;I think the manual is referring to the bolt being 12mm as far as the diameter of the threaded portion.I hope you have a 1/2" drive electric impact driver,it will make removing many bolts like that a 'piece of cake' 

Makes sense now!  Was reading into that one wrong.  12mm diameter rather than 12mm head - makes sense!  No electric impact driver yet but so far okay.

--

Slow but steady tonight.  I was working on that primary shaft.  That was one of two things I had to do before I split the cases, the second being the alternator rotor.



Man I hate those spring clips...this one was easier than the smaller one.  Anyways I got that, the secondary drive gear, the collar, and the bolt holding it all together off without any major issues.  I placed my foot on the inside of the alternator to prevent the motor from turning over allowing me to unscrew that bolt.



It worked pretty well, though I'm sure there is a better way.  I'm now stuck on the primary shaft.  My Clymer states: "Pull the primary shaft out to the right."  I pull and pull, but no luck.  I screwed the bolt back in half way and used that to tug on it but again, no luck.  Now I am thinking, is something related to the alternator holding this in?  Do I need to remove the alternator rotor before I can pull this shaft out?  I thought better to ask you all then to keep tugging

In other news, we finally finished up the wiring harness on the MGB enough to get her started!  She kicked right in and idled happily.  Sadly it will all be torn apart again for new rings, but I suppose that is half of the fun   The final few wires were aligator clipped together in true "get 'er done" fashion... thought you all might enjoy    whatever works!  Hah.

[grcamna2]

Whoa  that pile of alligator clips n' wires is a recipe for a fire !

[iiAtlas]

Whoa  that pile of alligator clips n' wires is a recipe for a fire !

This time we made it out alive.  They are four grounds which needed tying together.  The clips are all we had but they proved the concept and now we can move on to something more permanent!

[iiAtlas]

Ever heard of snap ring pliers?? I sure haven't --- D'OH!  Boy do I feel stupid.  I fought with those rings for hours.  I have just ordered a set of pliers...now I will need to find two replacement snap rings.  They aren't broken, but certainly marred from my attempt to take them out with regular pliers.  Stupid... 

[MoMo]

Ever heard of snap ring pliers?? I sure haven't --- D'OH!  Boy do I feel stupid.  I fought with those rings for hours.  I have just ordered a set of pliers...now I will need to find two replacement snap rings.  They aren't broken, but certainly marred from my attempt to take them out with regular pliers.  Stupid... 

Usually Honda does not cease production of snap rings, check a microfiche.  If unavailable, I may have what you need-

[iiAtlas]

Ever heard of snap ring pliers?? I sure haven't --- D'OH!  Boy do I feel stupid.  I fought with those rings for hours.  I have just ordered a set of pliers...now I will need to find two replacement snap rings.  They aren't broken, but certainly marred from my attempt to take them out with regular pliers.  Stupid... 

Usually Honda does not cease production of snap rings, check a microfiche.  If unavailable, I may have what you need-

Thanks Larry, checked http://www.hondaparts-direct.com/ and they do have them available - great.  #94520-52000 is the big one on the primary shaft I took off last night (52mm).  #90601-300-000 is the one I took off the clutch (25mm). 

[grcamna2]

Whoa  that pile of alligator clips n' wires is a recipe for a fire !

This time we made it out alive.  They are four grounds which needed tying together.  The clips are all we had but they proved the concept and now we can move on to something more permanent!

That's good they were only grounds..

[iiAtlas]

Folks I am back!  Ordered a rotor puller and am just waiting on that.  Been a very busy summer...last week I passed my Private Pilot checkride after 5 years of on and off training!  Studying up for that took all my brain power and the bike had to take a back seat.  Now that that is behind me I am ready to get back to moving this little 350F forward   thanks for the patience and for those of you who are still here!

[MoMo]

Atlas, congratulations...Larry

[grcamna2]

Good to hear from you again Atlas

[iiAtlas]

Good to hear from you again Atlas

Happy to be back!

Atlas, congratulations...Larry

Thank you LARRY!  I am still on Cloud 9  appreciate the support.

[grcamna2]

Folks I am back!  Ordered a rotor puller and am just waiting on that.  Been a very busy summer...last week I passed my Private Pilot checkride after 5 years of on and off training!  Studying up for that took all my brain power and the bike had to take a back seat.  Now that that is behind me I am ready to get back to moving this little 350F forward   thanks for the patience and for those of you who are still here!

Atlas,
You passed the private pilot test so you can fly solo in VFR conditions ?

[iiAtlas]

Folks I am back!  Ordered a rotor puller and am just waiting on that.  Been a very busy summer...last week I passed my Private Pilot checkride after 5 years of on and off training!  Studying up for that took all my brain power and the bike had to take a back seat.  Now that that is behind me I am ready to get back to moving this little 350F forward   thanks for the patience and for those of you who are still here!

Atlas,
You passed the private pilot test so you can fly solo in VFR conditions ?

Correct grcamna2!  "PPL SEL" to be complete.  I've been able to solo for a while now as a student pilot but this is a more complete license allowing me to fly VFR with passengers, to and from any airport I'd like.  If any of you are in or around NY feel free to tag along some time    My goal is to begin flying up to Maine.  We go there in the summers but it is a 9 hour drive from the city - yikes.  Lots of seaplane activity up there so I'd like to do that next!