Author Topic: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build  (Read 102668 times)

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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2016, 10:17:57 AM »
I don't usually buy directly from AllBalls, but plug in the part number into an eBay search, and find them much cheaper.  I would buy wheel bearings, too.  I would stick with Honda OEM fork seals.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
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2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
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Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2016, 10:34:25 AM »
I don't usually buy directly from AllBalls, but plug in the part number into an eBay search, and find them much cheaper.  I would buy wheel bearings, too.  I would stick with Honda OEM fork seals.

Good tip, I'll take a look. What's a good source for OEM Honda?

Offline calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2016, 10:56:32 AM »
Those are highly recommended services.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2016, 01:17:19 PM »
Any experience with 'BikeBandit' as an OEM source?  http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/1972-honda-cb350f/o/m9197  They only list the '72 CB350F as a model - any notable differences I should be aware of?  I'd like to be able to order stock fork seals and some other odds and ends from they (or another place if you all recommend).

EDIT: Users on ADVRider mentioned "David Silver Spares" - they look to be a good source.  https://www.davidsilverspares.com/
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 11:41:35 AM by iiAtlas »

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2016, 11:42:01 AM »
An update on the bike, just ordered a new air compressor and blow gun so I can get started Soda Blasting.  Went with this DeWalt 4.5 gallon one.  Portability is key as I don't have space here to set up a permanent shop.  Noise is also important.  I knew I needed relatively high CFM for the soda blast gun to work, and this dewalt at 5.2cfm @ 90psi is the best I could find.  It may still be a bit low but should allow me to do all the parts I need.  Looking forward to getting this so I can move on to the cleaning!

My thoughts are soak in boiling simple green aircraft cleaner, soda blast to remove residue, dip in Berrymans "chem-dip" and call it a day.  I remember one of those fluids (simple green or chem dip) left a residue - thats where the soda blasting comes in.  It's possible I mixed up which one leaves the residue in which case switch the order I stated about.

Offline calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2016, 11:58:44 AM »
My thoughts are soak in boiling simple green aircraft cleaner, soda blast to remove residue, dip in Berrymans "chem-dip" and call it a day.
What do you plan to clean in this manner?
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2016, 03:21:23 PM »
My thoughts are soak in boiling simple green aircraft cleaner, soda blast to remove residue, dip in Berrymans "chem-dip" and call it a day.
What do you plan to clean in this manner?

Oops! Left that bit out...this procedure is for the carbs.  I've "exploded" all four of them and I will dip one at a time.  Any other part I come across I will soda blast and clean one at a time.

Offline calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2016, 03:30:37 AM »
you should only need to blast the exteriors and then dip them to clean the internals. Follow that up with some poking, probing and compressed aerosols to insure the passages are fully cleared of blast media. Boiling step is not needed.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2016, 11:42:44 AM »
you should only need to blast the exteriors and then dip them to clean the internals. Follow that up with some poking, probing and compressed aerosols to insure the passages are fully cleared of blast media. Boiling step is not needed.

As for the dip, would you recommend Berrymans "carb-dip" or Simple Green Aircraft cleaner?

Offline calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2016, 04:07:33 PM »
Berrymans
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2016, 04:08:13 PM »

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2016, 09:43:28 AM »
Should I remove the throttle slides from the carburetors before cleaning?  Here's what I'm talking about. Will post pictures better shortly, on my phone.

http://imgur.com/lgcSdYw
http://imgur.com/8EnOPo0
http://imgur.com/FwXfqtG
http://imgur.com/suAGHmk

Edit: removed no problem. What about the butterfly mechanism or any of this remaining brass?

http://imgur.com/FnMP0ku
http://imgur.com/NSSjy5s

Edit 2: I've been told over on ADVRider to leave the butterfly, more harm than good - will do.

Edit 3: Been washing all day! 30 minute soak of the carb bodies, float bowls, top caps, and throttle slide mechanisms.  Bath in warm water.  Then wipe and blow dry with the air compressor.  It's been going well - will update with pictures later.  The carbs are cleaning up nicely.  A majority of the rust particle buildup is gone from the float bowls, but there is still some left.  I'm planning to re-soak them for another 30 minutes then bath and blow dry.  If this doesn't break it out I will soda blast them tomorrow and complete with a warm water bath.  A user over on ADVRider has reminded me about the emulsion tubes so I've got those along with some other of the jets soaking now.










Edit 4: Lost a few o-rings here.  I naively decided to remove both before soaking (as they would be destroyed) and they snapped immediately.  How much trouble am I going to have replacing these?  I believe they are off some component of the jets - any more information would be great!

With O-ring:


Without O-ring:


Edit 5: Ordered an OEM Honda gasket set off http://www.hondapartshouse.com/.  #1 on this diagram Carbs cleaned up nicely!

Edit 6: There are two screws which hold the throttle slide actuating arm plate in place. They are very small, and JIS. I have a JIS set of drivers, but my first attempt at getting them out still resulted in a minor strip. The next three sets of screws came out no problem as I got my technique down. I plan on replacing those screws. Does anyone have a decent idea of where to get them? The Honda OEM source above only includes them in #9 - Arm linkage set for $100+  My current set are certainly reusable, I'd just rather replace them while I have the chance.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 08:10:38 AM by iiAtlas »

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2016, 11:52:06 AM »
Good news! VT plate arrived in the mail today, that's a relief.  When I bought the bike it had no title.  My initial application was rejected.  The reviewer thought it was a dirt bike?  They asked me to provide proof that it has been converted to road legal, or proof of VT inspection.  I called and explained that the bike was street legal from the factory.  After a quick review, the lady agreed with me and said "CO" her on letter and resubmit.  A few weeks later and here's the plate!  A rare positive DMV experience...thanks VT!  Nice to know that avenues like this exist to get the bike properly plated and registered. 


Offline sbeckman7

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2016, 06:28:11 PM »
Wow just stumbled upon this thread... thanks for some much needed 350F restore motivation! ;)

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2016, 06:34:37 PM »
Wow just stumbled upon this thread... thanks for some much needed 350F restore motivation! ;)

Hey sbeckman! Glad to have you here. Waiting on my OEM Honda gasket set for the carbs to come (eta Jan 29) then I'll be able to put them back together...or try to at least...  ::)

Offline sbeckman7

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2016, 07:38:53 PM »
I know the feeling.  I'm just starting out my build (I'll make a thread in the project section tonight) and glad I stumbled upon that awesome air filter.  Gotta get one for myself  ;D  Contemplating Dyna ignition bits too...
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 02:14:21 AM by sbeckman7 »

Offline Trad

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2016, 08:17:26 PM »
Those carbs came out really clean. What are you soaking them in?
74 CB550 Build: NOS-GUTTED-OEMplus-HOLDTRUE
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Offline calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #67 on: January 27, 2016, 03:16:48 AM »
Instead of Dyna ignition and coils, you might have a gander at these beauties: http://www.c5ignitions.com/motorcycle-ignitions.html

The entire kit comes with everything but plugs, and many folks who use this ignition kit are extremely impressed with it.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #68 on: January 27, 2016, 06:43:25 AM »
I know the feeling.  I'm just starting out my build (I'll make a thread in the project section tonight) and glad I stumbled upon that awesome air filter.  Gotta get one for myself  ;D  Contemplating Dyna ignition bits too...

Looking forward to your thread!  I cannot wait to receive the air filter. Mike and Cody at Steel Dragon were awesome helping me narrow down finish and style for the air box.  Patient, helpful, excited - it was great.  Each one is made to order, so expect somewhere in the region of 3-6 weeks to receive the box.  I'll be sure to post tons of pics!  It's a pretty unique bit and I'm happy to support a small American machine shop.

Those carbs came out really clean. What are you soaking them in?

Hey Trad, thanks for stopping by!  Cleaning those carbs was a real pill, mainly because of how intense the chemicals were.  I did my best to ventilate but the little contact I had was headache-inducing.  The whole thing took around 16 hours.....but I'm pretty sure my second time around I could do it faster.  The procedure was as follows....
  • Soak carb bodies, bowl, and top cap in Berrymans "Chem-Dip" - 30 minutes
  • Remove, soak in warm water - 10 mins (or however long it took me to recover from the smell...)
  • Q-tip and blow dry with an air compressor.  Continue washing in water to remove debris.
  • Chem-Dip carb brass and other small hardware - 20 minutes
  • Remove, soak in warm water, and blow dry like the carbs
  • Re-dip carb body, bowl, and top cap - 30 minutes (Note: I'd say this second dip was the most important part.  This is where I began to see satisfying results.  The first round broke up the initial debris and allowed me to loosen it with a q-tip and the air compressor, the second round let me get a nice clean finish)
  • Remove, soak in warm water, and blow dry yet again.

All in all it was not "hard" but it was definitely tedious.  I'm sure this way was not the most efficient, but as a novice I wanted to take my time and do it right.  I didn't want to soak the carb bodies for more than 30 minutes at a time as I was worried about them darkening.  My 30 min dip, clean, then another 30 min dip worked well and I believe the first round of blow drying helped loosen some extra tough gunk.  Some of these steps were able to occur simultaneously.  As I had one batch "cooking" in the chem-dip, I could be washing and drying the previous.

Instead of Dyna ignition and coils, you might have a gander at these beauties: http://www.c5ignitions.com/motorcycle-ignitions.html

The entire kit comes with everything but plugs, and many folks who use this ignition kit are extremely impressed with it.

If only you'd told me this earlier Cal!  Dyna ordered and delivered.  The C5 kit looks great, if the quality of the Dyna doesn't impress me I can always return it.  Not after I install it of course, but maybe a quick look at the build quality will give me some indication.  My parts trolley is rapidly filling up...



Holding off on opening things.  Closed box = I can't lose it somewhere silly.  It's going to be like Christmas day when I finally start digging in!

Offline kslrr

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2016, 12:18:53 PM »
Following
Now  1972 CB350FX (experimental v2.0)
        1981 CB650c Custom with '79 engine (wifes)
        1981 CB650 engine
        2004 HD XL883C Custom
        1977 Yamaha XS750D (in progress)
Then 1972 CL175
        1964 Yamaha YGS-1T
No ride is a Bad ride

Offline sbeckman7

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2016, 02:24:26 PM »
Whatcha waiting for?!?  ;D

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #71 on: January 28, 2016, 06:05:05 AM »
Following

Woohoo!

Whatcha waiting for?!?  ;D

You know....why am I waiting!  I guess my initial reason was to not lose anything.  I'll crack 'em open later tonight!  Pictures incoming :)

Offline sbeckman7

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2016, 12:36:15 PM »
Waiting for more pics ;)  I'm about to tear into my carbs, I was curious which kit you ended up with from 4 into 1?  I guess the rubber seals are the only parts that really matter as long as the brass is all ok..

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #73 on: January 28, 2016, 12:43:19 PM »
Waiting for more pics ;)  I'm about to tear into my carbs, I was curious which kit you ended up with from 4 into 1?  I guess the rubber seals are the only parts that really matter as long as the brass is all ok..

I initially added a 4into1 rebuild kit but was cautioned instead to only buy what I needed when I knew I needed it.  I think this was definitely good advice.  The OEM brass is sure to be higher quality, and when I get down to the jetting I should be choosing specific bits based on my findings.  I ended up ordering an OEM gasket kit which includes all the o-rings, seals, and any other replaceable rubber bit I needed.  It was about $10 / per kit / per carb, so ~$40 all in.

http://www.hondapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/hon/506f9278f8700229747b98e4/carburetor The gasket kit I ordered is #1.  It gives you everything labeled #1 in that image - awesome!

Can't wait to open these boxes, it's like Christmas morning, hah.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #74 on: January 28, 2016, 07:24:47 PM »
Christmas day has arrived!  Only 33 days and 19 hours late.  Some super super cool stuff came!  I'll post 1000 pictures below with a little write up of my thoughts on each.

1. Baking soda and a media blasting gun.  Cheap stuff, should get the job done for the small-medium parts I have laying around which need blasting.  The DeWalt air compressor I just picked up (5cfm @ 90psi) will work well.



2. All Balls steering bearings, will install these after the frame gets powder coated.





3. Antigravity 8 cell lithium ion battery - WOW. I knew these were small but I'm in shock.  This thing is totally amazing.  Anyone choosing to run without a battery might as well put one of these in.  They are light as a dime and super small.  This is one of my favorite things I've purchased thus far. 





(Metrocard for scale - same size as a credit card or business card)


4. Optimate Lithium-Ion "smart" battery charger.  I considered this a must to protect my battery "investment"



5. Regulator / Rectifier.  This was another "protect my battery investment" purchase.  I think it will be a nice upgrade from the stock electronics system.  I want this thing to be sorted, and work well in stop/go/low speed city traffic, as well as on the highway.  I think this unit will help me get the electronics and charging systems set up in a way which enables that.  Really liked the packaging on this piece, it doesn't look or feel cheap.  I'm expecting it to work well.





6. Dynatek "Dyna S" electronic ignition system and Dynatek 5ohm coils.  Really excited to have these on there.  I think the higher output coil will pair well with the electronic ignition system.  The well sorted output from the regulator / rectifier unit and (fingers crossed) a well setup wiring harness will let this little girl have all the electricity she needs.  This completes my electrical upgrades - so far at least.  I think the three work well together, and I'm excited to see it all in action.







7. Fork gaitors.  May be some back and forth to find the right ones but these should do the trick for now.



8. MAC 4into1 exhaust and Emgo Shorty Muffler.  I like the look of the MAC 4into1 exhaust, and seeing as how I had no existing headers it was a good fit.  I think it makes sense with my "lighweight / classic" theme as 1 is less than 2...That being said, I HATED the stock pipe the 4into1 system came with.  Overly large, and definitely not right for my bike.    I have the Emgo shorty pipe on the BMW and I LOVE it.  Great sound, great look.  Sadly I couldn't order the MAC unit without the bundled exhaust so now I'm stuck with that...I also now realized that there is such a thing as "exhaust diameter" (d'oh!) and of course the two don't match up.  I'm hoping I'll be able to shim the Emgo pipe to fit in the MAC hole.  MAC looks to be about 2.25" inner diameter, and the emgo 1.7" outer - nearly half an inch to fill.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!



MAC with stock MAC muffler




MAC with Emgo shorty pipe (bad pictures - looks much better in person)








9. Bikemaster Superbike Handlebars.  I unknowingly already had these on my BMW.  It wasn't exactly the look I was going for, but could be cool!  May take a few tries to get these bars right.  These look to be a good starting point.







10. Clip on handlebars.  Another thing I'm playing with.  Not sure which direction is right for the bike just yet, thought I'd try both out.



11. Smaller profile headlight brackets.  I bought this in case I go the clip on route.  They look to actually be pretty nice!  I may end up using them with either bar.  Could be cool.



12. Grips.  Cheap-o $10 ones but I LOVE them!  I have the same on my BMW and they've been holding up well.  Cool look, slim, but plenty comfortable.



13. Bar end mirrors.  Another cheap-o bit which gets the job done.



14. OEM Honda headlight.  Debated a Candlepower headlight with a 35/35watt lower power bulb, but decided fitment was more important.  The OEM Honda one is guaranteed a better fit in the actual headlight "case".





15. Lowbrow customs spark plug wire.  50/50 on this.  Could look cool, could look silly.  I think the color compliments the tank well and adds something a little different to the build.  If it turns out it's different in the wrong way I'll swap them out for black.



16. NGK plug caps and D8EA plugs.  The cool thing about these caps is the ones for the inner two plugs (000) and the ones for the outer two (111) come out at different angles!  Nice touch, I like that.  D8EA's should work well for me.





Wowee!  Lotta stuff.  I can't wait to be at the stage where I'm putting this all on.  I'm starting to get a picture of it in my head - I think she's coming together.  Thanks for the push to open the boxes!  It was a fun time :)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 07:27:03 PM by iiAtlas »