Author Topic: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build  (Read 104543 times)

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Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #225 on: March 23, 2016, 12:56:48 PM »
You did a nice job cleaning the valves off,I would certainly do a good,complete lapping on a couple of those.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #226 on: March 23, 2016, 01:02:11 PM »
You did a nice job cleaning the valves off,I would certainly do a good,complete lapping on a couple of those.

Will be lapping all of them tonight!   8)

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #227 on: March 24, 2016, 07:11:14 AM »
Exhaust valves: lapped!  Will get to the intakes tomorrow.  These cleaned up pretty nicely I'd say.  I used a standard wooden lapping handling, some lapping compound, lots of patience, and a bit of time.  Here is the valve after lapping.



And the seat


I was carful not to get any of the lapping compound on the valve stems or anywhere else it shouldn't be, though I will of course be flushing the whole head once again.  I noticed something strange when I went to insert the valves into the guides.  There appeared to be a rust like coating on them.  Surface rust, or maybe a film.  I fed a paper towel through and it came right off, like it hadn't adhered but rather just sitting on the surface.  I decided to spray the inside of the guides down with WD-40, this washed away the rust-like deposit.  Then I coated the valve stem in motor oil before inserting it in the guide to ensure any contaminants were carried away.  I'm curious as to what this stuff was.  Maybe it was from one of the solutions I used?  Pine-sol?  Evapo-rust?  Nonetheless after WD-40 and some motor oil on the stem the valves inserted smoothly.  I have yet to check if the guides and valves are in spec.  I wanted to do something with my hands so I went with the lapping instead.  Will get to the measuring soon.  Is "valve guide replacement" a home job on these little Honda 4's?

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #228 on: March 24, 2016, 09:51:38 AM »
Its not unusual for flash rusting to occur on the guides. I'd suggest assembly lube on the stems or Marvel Mystery oil if the head will sit a while (dripped into the guides). The guides should be done by a shop as most times, new seats should be cut afterwards  :-\ Let's hope all the work you just did isn't out the window...

I had fun lapping them so no worries :) never heard of that marvel mystery oil but will take a look.  What's it's main use?  Thanks for chiming in.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #229 on: March 24, 2016, 11:16:15 AM »
Rust prevention. Penetrating oil. Gun cleaning. Defouling. Brushing your teeth. Fogging fuel tanks. Gargling after a weekend in the drunk tank (ask RevDoc). And about 1,001 other uses.

Hah!  Sounds like it really is mystery oil...will pick some up, thanks.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #230 on: March 24, 2016, 11:43:03 AM »
Rust prevention. Penetrating oil. Gun cleaning. Defouling. Brushing your teeth. Fogging fuel tanks. Gargling after a weekend in the drunk tank (ask RevDoc). And about 1,001 other uses.

Hah!  Sounds like it really is mystery oil...will pick some up, thanks.

lol  :D
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #231 on: March 26, 2016, 02:48:39 PM »
An update from a few days ago...intake valves lapped!





I'm happy with how they came out.  I can see and feel a nice even cut where the valve met the seat.  It seems like both sides "lapped" well.  Next up I'd like to redo my engine measurements.  Cylinder ID, pistons, valves, and valve guide play.  Then I want to tear open the bottom end and see how the crankshaft and everything is looking down there.  I'll most likely spend the rest of today soda blasting some frame components.  Maybe I'll soda blast the head while I'm at it.  Probably should have done that before I lapped the seats, but I doubt the soda has enough power to do any meaningful damage.  ^^ feel free to tell me not to do the above :)

That's all for now!

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #232 on: March 26, 2016, 07:00:08 PM »
Good work.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #233 on: April 10, 2016, 09:38:21 AM »
An update -

Thanks to grcamna, MoMo, and Sbeckman I've managed to get a set of CB350F STD Bore cylinder sleeves.  MoMo had a spare cylinder head with good sleeves lying around and was able to remove them and ship them to me.  Thank you Calj for the tips on removal.  He said 15 mins at 350F in the oven and they popped right out.  I'll be taking two for myself and replacing those sleeves sometime this week.  The other two are for Sbeckman should he choose to use them.  If anyone else needs the sleeves and Sbeckman goes another route I'd be happy to pass them along.

I spent most of this weekend working on the airheads.  We've got three in the garage now and they we're all well past due for a full oil change.  All three bikes are plagued by the infamous $2000 O-ring.  If you'd like to see how that went check here: http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/recently-acquired-1977-r100-7-questions.1055409/page-54#post-29148335.  More soon!

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #234 on: April 10, 2016, 03:24:18 PM »
Nice to hear that Larry was able to help you with a pr. of good STD. size cylinder sleeves !
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #235 on: April 10, 2016, 05:38:25 PM »
I spent most of this weekend working on the airheads.  We've got three in the garage now and they we're all well past due for a full oil change.  All three bikes are plagued by the infamous $2000 O-ring.  If you'd like to see how that went check here: More soon!
Sometimes it doesn't pay to service a bike  :-\

Hah! Maybe I should clarify... potentially plagued I.E. they are the models potentially effected.  Nothing catastrophic just yet...

Nice to hear that Larry was able to help you with a pr. of good STD. size cylinder sleeves !

Yes!  Thanks again for your help in tracking them down.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #236 on: April 13, 2016, 01:00:55 PM »
The sleeves are here!  Thank you Larry (MoMo) for the quick work removing them from the cylinder and shipping.





I've only opened one thus far but I'm assuming they're all there ;).  I know the only shot which really matters for this is the inner walls.  I'll get you a good one of that as soon as I can.  What's next?  Can I hone these while they're out of the cylinder block?  Maybe stick them in a vice?  I need to hone and mic them, then choose the best two to swap in.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Offline MoMo

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #237 on: April 13, 2016, 10:15:11 PM »
I ran a glass bead hone through before shipping them ..Larry

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #238 on: April 14, 2016, 04:16:32 AM »
Make sure to use the large seal/o-rings for the bottom of the cylinder sleeves.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #239 on: April 23, 2016, 06:52:37 PM »
Make sure to use the large seal/o-rings for the bottom of the cylinder sleeves.

Thanks will keep that in mind!



In an effort to keep the ball rolling, I decided to go a different direction and work on something moderately mindless - prepping my rims for powder coat.  This meant disassembling the rim and de-lacing the spokes.



What a gorgeous day!  Perfect for kicking back and working on this wheel.



Step one: this axle nut.  So much for my relaxing day....



She was really locked on there.  Anyways after a bunch of free-all (like PB Blaster) and a couple of swears she made it out.



That axle looks pretty burnt.  Like it we're running without grease maybe.  Or just past-prime grease which has caked itself on there.  No worries, it feels straight and should clean up nice.  If not we'll go from there.  (note: it not crooked at the end, that part - the axle nut - is just resting on there).

Icky



The rest of the wheel assembly came out easy.





Everything under the covers looked pretty shiny...



I hadn't studied the diagrams or parts much as I was really trying to keep this a mindless project.  Everything is set aside and ready to examined with a keener eye at a later date  ;)

Time to de-lace this rim.  Fun!



There's always one, right?



More or less painless.  You twist the nipple, the spoke comes out.  The more you get out, the easier they come out.  Satisfying!



All spokes look good but one which was welded to the nipple.  It snapped trying to remove it, I will try to track something down.  I'm planning on getting the spokes zinc plated and the rims powder coated black.  I have yet to find a good place to do either of those tasks so we'll see, but thats the plan at least!

The rims have some rust build up but I am betting it's just surface rust.  Will see how they clean up.







Front wheel: Done!  That was a fun day  8) hoping to get the rear in a similar place tomorrow.  Some work went on with one of the airheads today too.  Surprises when we dig into one of the front forks...check on that here if you're interested.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #240 on: April 23, 2016, 09:47:06 PM »
You might also look into cadmium plating the spokes;I got a set zinc plated and the threads started chipping off upon re-assembly causing a problem w/ stripping the nipples a bit.. I think cad. plating might bond better,it would at least be good to research that.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #241 on: April 24, 2016, 07:22:49 AM »
You might also look into cadmium plating the spokes;I got a set zinc plated and the threads started chipping off upon re-assembly causing a problem w/ stripping the nipples a bit.. I think cad. plating might bond better,it would at least be good to research that.

Good to know!  Cadmium plating, will look into that.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #242 on: April 24, 2016, 07:38:40 AM »
You might also look into cadmium plating the spokes;I got a set zinc plated and the threads started chipping off upon re-assembly causing a problem w/ stripping the nipples a bit.. I think cad. plating might bond better,it would at least be good to research that.

Good to know!  Cadmium plating, will look into that.

When you research the plating try to find out which would stay solidly bonded to the spokes/threads the best.The zinc plating has a nice chrome-like look to it(if you do get them zinc plated be sure to find a correct size thread die to clean up the threads before assembly) and i think the cad. is a little more muted.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #243 on: April 24, 2016, 07:40:14 AM »
How is your cylinder block/liners coming along? it must be handy working in a bike shop  8)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 03:00:38 PM by grcamna2 »
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #244 on: April 24, 2016, 10:41:14 AM »
When you research the plating try to find out which would stay solidly bonded to the spokes/threads the best.The zinc plating has a nice chrome-like look to it(if you do get them zinc plated be sure to find a correct size thread die to clean up the threads before assembly) and i think the cad. is a little more muted.

A more muted look I think would go better with this bike.  Depends on how much "chrome" I have going on elsewhere.  I'll allow pricing to weigh into my decision somewhat.  Will keep you posted on what I find out!

How is your cylinder block/liners coming along? it must handy working in a bike shop  8)

On hold until I can take the block upstate.  Got a hard "no" on using the oven to remove the current set of sleeves...hah

Offline MoMo

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #245 on: April 24, 2016, 12:03:00 PM »
When you research the plating try to find out which would stay solidly bonded to the spokes/threads the best.The zinc plating has a nice chrome-like look to it(if you do get them zinc plated be sure to find a correct size thread die to clean up the threads before assembly) and i think the cad. is a little more muted.




Remember 350 for 15-20 ,minutes- sneak it in when no one is around. Never know, especially if the cylinder is clean

A more muted look I think would go better with this bike.  Depends on how much "chrome" I have going on elsewhere.  I'll allow pricing to weigh into my decision somewhat.  Will keep you posted on what I find out!

How is your cylinder block/liners coming along? it must handy working in a bike shop  8)

On hold until I can take the block upstate.  Got a hard "no" on using the oven to remove the current set of sleeves...hah

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #246 on: April 24, 2016, 02:33:03 PM »
Use a bbq grill if the wife says "No". Its just heat and the jugs won't care where it comes from. Gas on low...

Hah! Good idea...will do this.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #247 on: April 25, 2016, 06:47:08 AM »
Forgot to mention - I am stuck on removing the wheel bearing retainer cap.



It looks like the wrong tool was used a few too many times.  The edges are rounded making it hard for my pin wrench to get a good grip.  I will try to make something with four pins/tabs to see if that grabs better.  Any tips?  I looked up the part number to see if the OEM tool or a replacement was around but no luck - at least not from my searching.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #248 on: April 25, 2016, 07:24:54 AM »
You first need to verify the stakes are drilled out. Then, copious amounts of heat will help release it. If your wrench won't grab it, carefully use a brass drift and punch it loose with a dead blow hammer.

Be careful it's not cross threaded upon reinstall.

Okay, sounds good to me.  Will get the torch and give that another shot.  What exactly do you mean by "verify the stakes are drilled out" ?  Thanks for the quick reply Cal!

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F Cafe/Tracker build
« Reply #249 on: April 25, 2016, 07:57:37 AM »
You may consider building the wheel around that hub first before dealing with the bearings;it's Very difficult to remove that w/o a wheel to grab a hold of for leverage.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.