Topic: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build

[iiAtlas]

the shoes look good but...........? Remove the cotter pin then stretch the brakes by pulling at the center. You shold be able to pull them off.  Then remove the brake cam(one with the green stripe) and thoroughly clean it and the hole it goes into.  Add a bit of waterproof grease on the cam before reinserting.  Also, clean the stationary pivot post.. And.........buy a good set of tire irons and use spray nine or something similar to remove the tire.  You're welcome, glad to be of assistance...Larry

Will do!  The tire thing was a random attempt...did what I could with what I had.  Will get a set of tire irons.  Thanks for the steps on the brake work, I will do that!

iiAtlas,
What's your name?
 I think it would be good to buy a pr. of this style tire levers,they give you plenty of leverage(15" long)and are hardened steel & curved to keep from ripping the bead of the tire when you're using them.

Ordered this with an extra one of these .  Thanks for the recommendation!

[grcamna2]

Good choices Atlas 
I have also used a product called 'Murphy's tire bead lube',a type of special paste.I would get it from my local Goodyear automotive tire shop where i used to live.I finally ordered some and always keep it on-hand for applying to both sides of the tire beads on tubeless & tube-type tires to ease installation and allow the new tires to 'seat' correctly in the rim once you fill them up with air.

[iiAtlas]

Good choices Atlas 
I have also used a product called 'Murphy's tire bead lube',a type of special paste.I would get it from my local Goodyear automotive tire shop where i used to live.I finally ordered some and always keep it on-hand for applying to both sides of the tire beads on tubeless & tube-type tires to ease installation and allow the new tires to 'seat' correctly in the rim once you fill them up with air.

Smart!

[grcamna2]

When you remove a(old,etc.) tire w/ the tire irons it helps to put your knees/weight down to compress as much as the opposite side(180degrees)of the tire as you can at one time so you can get enough play in the bead for it to slip over the rim as you're prying it off w/ the two levers.Then just keep doing that all the way around and it works well when you're installing one also.

[iiAtlas]

When you remove a(old,etc.) tire w/ the tire irons it helps to put your knees/weight down to compress as much as the opposite side(180degrees)of the tire as you can at one time so you can get enough play in the bead for it to slip over the rim as you're prying it off w/ the two levers.Then just keep doing that all the way around and it works well when you're installing one also.

Tire irons arriving today, wish me luck!

///

After some debate I've decided to forgo the powder coat and simply spray the frame, headlight, and brackets.  With the right prep and patience I believe I will be able to get a good result, maybe even close to powder quality.  My initial fear was strength of the paint, but it sounds like if I let it cure for two solid weeks I should be okay.  I'm hoping this will give me the hardness I'm looking for, or at least close. 

My plan is as follows...

• Strip the frame.  I plan on using some simple green aircraft stripper, and paint thinner. Sand.
• Primer.  I've ordered two cans of Rustoleum sandable primer.  This should give me a nice smooth base to spray over.
• Wetsand.  300 grit.
• Spray.  I've chosen VHT Roll Bar and Chassis paint.  This should give me the durability I am looking for.  It is an epoxy spray paint which behaves somewhat differently from a traditional rattle can.  Oddly enough I've found someone using this exact method on his CB350F.  Check out his video here.

I'll apply this same process to the headlight bucket, brackets, swingarm, and any other small parts I've removed.  I'm still debating what route I should go for the rims as I would like those to really stand up to the wear.  I've switched over to the spray route for two reasons.  1) it's surprisingly expensive here in NYC.  I've seen people on other threads saying it was $150 for a frame, prep included.  Or $70 for a box of parts, it's nowhere near that here.  So far I've been quoted $500-700 for the frame alone.  Some people just flat out say "no".  2) the time.  If I hand this off to a powder coater I'll have to wait for their schedule to get it back.  I'm not in a rush, but I like to be working on my own time.  I'd rather wait two weeks for my spray paint to dry than 5 days with all my parts at someones shop.  Weird, but thats the way I am 

Hopefully this new course of action doesn't deter too many of you.  I'm confident with the right patience, prep, and paint I'll be able to get a quality finish out of this.

[grcamna2]

Atlas,
I wouldn't use Rustoleum primer if you're going to be using that particular VHT type of paint,I'm not sure it would be compatible and you might have issues w/ it;use VHT base coat/primer & top-coat all the way.I would look at the VHT top-coat cans and see what primer they recommend and use that. imo

[iiAtlas]

Atlas,
I wouldn't use Rustoleum primer if you're going to be using that particular VHT type of paint,I'm not sure it would be compatible and you might have issues w/ it;use VHT base coat/primer & top-coat all the way.I would look at the VHT top-coat cans and see what primer they recommend and use that. imo

For bare metal, an epoxy primer is best. It bonds chemically to the raw steel and has the protection you seek. Then cover with any appropriate paint you prefer.

I thought about this but couldn't find a suitable VHT base coat or top coat.  The VHT epoxy paint states "no primer necessary" - but I wanted a sandable primer so that I could create a smooth and even surface to spray on.  The only VHT offerings I could find are anodized base coat (wrong I'd presume), engine enamel primer (seems to suited towards the enamel line of paints), and prime coat (which looks the closest, but states "excellent foundation for any enamel, acrylic or synthetic lacquer" - no mention of epoxy).  I chose the rustoleam as I couldn't find an epoxy primer for the life of me!  Happy to swap it out if either of you have better luck.  Thanks for the quick replies.

[MoMo]

For bare metal, an epoxy primer is best. It bonds chemically to the raw steel and has the protection you seek. Then cover with any appropriate paint you prefer.

2K makes a primer like Cal is referring to.  Close to 20 a can ...Larry

[iiAtlas]

For bare metal, an epoxy primer is best. It bonds chemically to the raw steel and has the protection you seek. Then cover with any appropriate paint you prefer.

2K makes a primer like Cal is referring to.  Close to 20 a can ...Larry

Interesting, here are some other options I've found.  I believe #2 is what you're referring to.

1. Self-etching primer
2. Spraymaxx 2k epoxy primer (like you'd mentioned, would prefer #1 if they're comparable due to faster shipping)

[sbeckman7]

I made the same mistake of trying to remove my tires with a sawzall haha, ended up caving and paying the local bike shop $20 to remove them.

[iiAtlas]

Shop here for comparisons:
http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/spray-max-2k-epoxy-rust-cure-primer-3680032-p-14526.aspx

Thanks Cal! Ordered x2.

I made the same mistake of trying to remove my tires with a sawzall haha, ended up caving and paying the local bike shop $20 to remove them.

Hah! Nice to see you around.  Sawzall is definitely NOT the tool of choice...live and learn   this just showed up today, wish me luck.  Have another of the 16" irons en route to help out.

[sbeckman7]

If you're tires are like mine were, you're gonna need luck 

[grcamna2]

If you're tires are like mine were, you're gonna need luck 

I know it will help if you get the wheel/tire good and warm w/ that hard,old rubber tire to make the rubber a bit more pliable to flex enough to get it over the rim.

[iiAtlas]

If you're tires are like mine were, you're gonna need luck 

I know it will help if you get the wheel/tire good and warm w/ that hard,old rubber tire to make the rubber a bit more pliable to flex enough to get it over the rim.

Amazingly....









I did it!  First time successfully using a tire iron - sweet!  Thanks for the recommendation grcamna, this style iron is definitely the easiest to use.  I used the large black handle to do a majority of the pulling, and the small silver ones to push the bead into a position where I could grab it, or to hold a bead I'd already lifted. 

My strategy as follows.  I first took the 16" iron, got a good hold on the bead using the hook and the curved head, then lifted it above the rim.  I then replaced the large iron with one of the smaller irons to hold the bead in place.  Next, back with the 16" iron, I would move about 3" away from where I now had the smaller bead holder.  In order to grab the bead in this new location, I would have to lower my previous "grab" partially.  So, with both irons in hand, I'd rock one down just below the rim - enough to relieve pressure for the longer iron to grab, but not so much that I lost hold.  Then I would raise both above the rim at the same time et voila - 3" of bead above the rim.  I would again replace the large iron with a smaller silver one, move 3" down, and attempt to repeat the same process.  It's not as easy as the above is maybe making it sound, but with some finagling it is definitely doable.

Now I have this...



I was inspecting my rear sprocket and came to the conclusion that it looked relatively worn.  Maybe a new one is in order?  I thought the distinct angling of the teeth in one direction was a sign of wear.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.







Thanks!

[iiAtlas]

I was inspecting my rear sprocket and came to the conclusion that it looked extremely worn.

Fixed that for you.

Hah!  Thanks Cal...first chain-drive bike believe it or not, so good to now my guess was (somewhat) correct.  Thanks for the heads up.  Recommendations?  OEM unobtainium?

[grcamna2]

iiAtlas,
I'm glad to hear your success w/ the old tire removed;those old,hard rubber doughnuts can be stubborn.I took my tire levers to a friend who has a grinder(no elec. in my storage..) and polishing wheel and had him lightly grind off the sharp edges around the tire levers and then polish up the hardened steel flat 'tips' a bit so it makes the effort smoother and less chance of pinching a tube upon assembly.I use a good bit of Murphy's Tire Bead lube on the edges of the tire bead(mostly on tubeless tires but it helps w/ tube type/spoke tire installation also)before I install the tube and mount the tire.I've also used some talcum powder inside the tire before I install the tube which helps imo.

[iiAtlas]

iiAtlas,
I'm glad to hear your success w/ the old tire removed;those old,hard rubber doughnuts can be stubborn.I took my tire levers to a friend who has a grinder(no elec. in my storage..) and polishing wheel and had him lightly grind off the sharp edges around the tire levers and then polish up the hardened steel flat 'tips' a bit so it makes the effort smoother and less chance of pinching a tube upon assembly.I use a good bit of Murphy's Tire Bead lube on the edges of the tire bead(mostly on tubeless tires but it helps w/ tube type/spoke tire installation also)before I install the tube and mount the tire.I've also used some talcum powder inside the tire before I install the tube which helps imo.

Thanks!  Your tips helped.  Will give that a shot when I get there.

//

Thoughts on the below?

Rear sprocket (38)
Front sprocket (17)
Chain (530-100)

Is the 530-100 the right choice for this bike?  I know the 350F runs a 530 but I've read mixed things on chain length.  102, 96, I'm not sure.  How do these sprockets look?  If I order all from DCC or some other site I can save on shipping.  Happy to shop elsewhere if you all right these off as junk.  Thanks!

[grcamna2]

I think you'd be better w/ a 16 tooth front sprocket and that'll make better use of the rpm's  w/ your 5 speed transmission;w/ the 16 tooth fr. 38 tooth rear sprockets you can use the 100 link drive chain.

[iiAtlas]

I think you'd be better w/ a 16 tooth front sprocket and that'll make better use of the rpm's  w/ your 5 speed transmission;w/ the 16 tooth fr. 38 tooth rear sprockets you can use the 100 link drive chain.

Interesting, could you explain that more to me?  Wouldn't a lower front sprocket = higher RPM's at all speed?  From what I've been reading these are already buzzy things, reving to 10k and all.  Wouldn't more revs at all speeds = more buzz?  I'd like to be able to take this on the highway (55mph) for some stretches.  A smaller front sprocket would equal higher RPMs at cruising speed on the highway, correct?

Happy to oblige just trying to get some more info on the consequences/benefits of my actions.  Thanks for the input!

[grcamna2]

Yes, w/o going to deep about it  .
These smaller bore 4 cylinder short stroke engines thrive up in the higher rpms and were designed to be up there.When you have your ignition/timing all set-up nice and carbs. synched,cam chain adjusted it will run smooth up above 5500 rpm.When you are up on the interstate you'll only have to crack the throttle to pass someone rather than downshift one or two gears to 'get' the rpms up.Not so much w/ the 750 which is a bigger 'long stroke' engine.The 'short' version is,it hums along real nice when it's all set-up and adjusted right.I think it all depends on how long of a trip you'll be taking and how much you think you'll load up the bike too.
When someone wrote that they are "buzzy things revving to 10K and all".. That's what they were designed to do.The only reason I think folks don't like the high rpms for small engines is because they are so used-to bigger engines. 

[iiAtlas]

Yes, w/o going to deep about it  .
These smaller bore 4 cylinder short stroke engines thrive up in the higher rpms and were designed to be up there.When you have your ignition/timing all set-up nice and carbs. synched,cam chain adjusted it will run smooth up above 5500 rpm.When you are up on the interstate you'll only have to crack the throttle to pass someone rather than downshift one or two gears to 'get' the rpms up.Not so much w/ the 750 which is a bigger 'long stroke' engine.The 'short' version is,it hums along real nice when it's all set-up and adjusted right.I think it all depends on how long of a trip you'll be taking and how much you think you'll load up the bike too.
When someone wrote that they are "buzzy things revving to 10K and all".. That's what they were designed to do.The only reason I think folks don't like the high rpms for small engines is because they are so used-to bigger engines. 

Sa-weeet!  Thanks for the input, this clears a bunch up for me.  Smaller stroke should in theory mean a quicker time to rev.  16T front it is, I will order those parts tonight.  When I referred to them as "buzzy" I wasn't taking a jab at them.  Makes sense that there is a buzz at higher RPMs.  I am hoping (with the help of you all) I will be able to get this little bike setup right so that the buzz is of the hum variety...  Looking forward to that day! 

[sbeckman7]

There are 2 reasons I wanted a 350F: tiny pistons and 10k redline 

[kslrr]

There are 2 reasons I wanted a 350F: tiny pistons and 10k redline 

That's what I love about mine.  Many years ago I was on the I405 in Southern California going 100mph @ 10k rpm.  Smooth as a cruise missal.

[iiAtlas]

There are 2 reasons I wanted a 350F: tiny pistons and 10k redline 

That's what I love about mine.  Many years ago I was on the I405 in Southern California going 100mph @ 10k rpm.  Smooth as a cruise missal.

SWEET!! Haven't forgot about my build, don't you all worry been a little busy but expect some more updates soon!

[grcamna2]

keep it up