Topic: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build

[iiAtlas]

Okay all I am stuck on square one...having a dastardly time with this.  Here is my tool.  The largest bolt threads into the outer threads of the rotor.



Now what?  I understand the alternator rotor is on a tapered shaft, and by threading this in I am pushing the rotor off the shaft.  Do I just get turning now?  Forcing it deeper until the rotor pops off?  How do I prevent the engine from turning over?

There are some other attachments which don't seem to fit or have a purpose, maybe I am wrong....









I know I shouldn't use heat as that could damage the magnetism.  Any tips appreciated!

EDIT: I guess ignore the part about not using heat due to not wanting to disturb the alternator magnetism, as that portion of this is already removed - right?  Does this open up heat as an option?

[grcamna2]

Atlas,
You've got it on there correctly;that's a multi-fit puller that fit's lot's of different applications.
I would remove the puller and put a large dab of grease up inside where the end of the tool makes contact w/ the crankshaft end and then re-install the tool and then use a large mallet possibly hitting a large wooden mallet or block of wood w/ a heavy hammer w/ a few good fast,sharp blows on one of the other threaded ends of the puller to effectively turn the tool clockwise w/ hammer blows.You may want to install a wooden wedge,etc. against the inside of one of the crankwheels inside one of the 4 cylinder holes to help keep the crank from spinning/give it a little resistance to spinning too easily.This would have been better to apply if you still had the clutch and primary drive on the engine and then just put it in 1st. gear to keep the crank from spinning over to easily.The sharp,fast blows w/ a heavy wooden mallet on one of the large dia. threaded parts of the tool should do it though 

[iiAtlas]

Atlas,
You've got it on there correctly;that's a multi-fit puller that fit's lot's of different applications.
I would remove the puller and put a large dab of grease up inside where the end of the tool makes contact w/ the crankshaft end and then re-install the tool and then use a large mallet possibly hitting a large wooden mallet or block of wood w/ a heavy hammer w/ a few good fast,sharp blows on one of the other threaded ends of the puller to effectively turn the tool clockwise w/ hammer blows.You may want to install a wooden wedge,etc. against the inside of one of the crankwheels inside one of the 4 cylinder holes to help keep the crank from spinning/give it a little resistance to spinning too easily.This would have been better to apply if you still had the clutch and primary drive on the engine and then just put it in 1st. gear to keep the crank from spinning over to easily.The sharp,fast blows w/ a heavy wooden mallet on one of the large dia. threaded parts of the tool should do it though 

You rock!  Let me go give that a shot...

EDIT: And it was as simple as that!





All it took was the boost in confidence to give 'er a whack  thanks grcamna, now back to work!  Hoping to get these cases split tonight.

[iiAtlas]

Ta-da!



All bolts removed...I think...

Got the points plate off too without any fuss.  I will be converting to a new electronic ignition to compliment my new coils but these points look to be in good condition.  Happy to pass them on to any of you all, should any of you be in need.









Now, any reason I shouldn't just be able to split these cases apart?  With some deliberate whacking?  Thanks all!

[MoMo]

Atlas, for some reason none of your previous photos show so I can't tell for  sure.  You may want to remove the shift shaft selector...Good luck and you should not need more persuasion other than a couple raps with a dead blow...Larry

[iiAtlas]

Atlas, for some reason none of your previous photos show so I can't tell for  sure.  You may want to remove the shift shaft selector...Good luck and you should not need more persuasion other than a couple raps with a dead blow...Larry

Hmm sorry about that MoMo...can anyone else see them okay?  I'll double check the shift shaft selector, thanks for the tip.

[grcamna2]

Atlas, for some reason none of your previous photos show so I can't tell for  sure.  You may want to remove the shift shaft selector...Good luck and you should not need more persuasion other than a couple raps with a dead blow...Larry

Hmm sorry about that MoMo...can anyone else see them okay?  I'll double check the shift shaft selector, thanks for the tip.

I can see them

[iiAtlas]

Anything over here need disconnecting before I continue attempting to split the cases?



I feel like a real bozo...do I need any special tool to do this?  The two cases are completely locked.  I could use a flat head screw driver to chip in at the sealant but that sounds like a really bad idea...any help much appreciated, sorry for being such a dunce!   

[grcamna2]

Atlas,
You have a factory oem Honda shop manual ? it'll tell you the sequence and parts to remove before you remove the cases.
Momo(Larry) mentioned the shift shaft last night,you've got to remove that too.

[iiAtlas]

Atlas,
You have a factory oem Honda shop manual ? it'll tell you the sequence and parts to remove before you remove the cases.
Momo(Larry) mentioned the shift shaft last night,you've got to remove that too.

I have been following the Clymer but I will attempt to pick up an OEM shop manual, maybe there are differences.  The Clymer made no mention of the shift shaft (or I glazed over it....).  I will give that a shot!  Thanks all.

[grcamna2]

Atlas,
You have a factory oem Honda shop manual ? it'll tell you the sequence and parts to remove before you remove the cases.
Momo(Larry) mentioned the shift shaft last night,you've got to remove that too.

I have been following the Clymer but I will attempt to pick up an OEM shop manual, maybe there are differences.  The Clymer made no mention of the shift shaft (or I glazed over it....).  I will give that a shot!  Thanks all.

Atlas,
You may be able to download the oem Honda factory shop manual right here on this forum.

[iiAtlas]

Atlas,
You have a factory oem Honda shop manual ? it'll tell you the sequence and parts to remove before you remove the cases.
Momo(Larry) mentioned the shift shaft last night,you've got to remove that too.

I have been following the Clymer but I will attempt to pick up an OEM shop manual, maybe there are differences.  The Clymer made no mention of the shift shaft (or I glazed over it....).  I will give that a shot!  Thanks all.

Atlas,
You may be able to download the oem Honda factory shop manual right here on this forum.

You're right! http://manuals.sohc4.net/cb350/.  What a great resource...thank you SOHC/4 !

[iiAtlas]

Progress!  I was determined to make some of it, so I did.  Though maybe not all in the right direction....

Anyways, things started out well.







I got the shift linkage removed.  Then the starter motor.



I thought this would be it so I tried to split again, no luck.  So I flipped the thing over....d'oh!!  10 more bolts....



Boy did I feel stupid...



But alas, out they came.  NOW I thought this was it, so I tried to split again and....it worked!  Sort of....



This was where things went down, down, down hill.  The cases would split but felt hung up on something.  I looked for ages for another bolt, nothing.  It felt more like a shaft or a...chain...I believe it is the timing chain. 



That seems to be preventing the top half from splitting from the bottom, for some reason.  Every time I attempt to split the chain tightens up and the thing won't come apart, it merely rotates about that point.

I tried EVERYWHERE to see how to get this thing apart, all the while not knowing if it was really a problem.  I attempted to remove the oil pump.





No luck, I can't really figure where to get past here.  Then, disastrously, the top timing gears came flying out...



As did these bearings



Gah...I was cut, bleeding, covered in oil, confused, flummoxed - the works.  I followed the OEM Honda manual to the best of my abilities but found it a little to "jumpy" for me, hard to keep track of.  This post is a minor embarrassment to myself...I really was hoping to do a better job of splitting these cases.  I figure I just need to find my stride once again and things will get back on track.  Can anyone see a glaring omission or provide any insight as to why these damn things won't split?  I'm at a loss, maybe a good nights rest will help    Thanks, as always, for the help of this thread.  I'd be nowhere without you all!

[iiAtlas]

"Okay ya dope, lets finish this up"



Primary shaft, I kept hearing about a primary shaft, main shaft.  I thought I'd had that out but after triple checking my fades 1970's Clymer reprint, and cross referencing with a slightly over my head OEM Honda manual I deduced one other shaft could be considered the primary shaft.



One confident tap with the hammer and out she came, along with that oil pump I couldn't work out how to remove.  Great!  This free'd up the cam belt somewhat.  I'd also read somewhere on here that the cases have to be split in reverse aka upside down.  With the studs in this proved quite difficult.  Taboo as this may be, the only way I could work out how to get them apart was between my legs...



Surprisingly, it worked.  In order to release the cam chain I had to split that sproket it sits on (which is in turn on the primary shaft).  The way I did this was damn near impossible but somehow it worked.  Not without a hitch however...







These were the casualties from my efforts.  I have no clue where the two springs or the solid spacers came from.  Time will tell and I've just marked them for now so I don't lose them by the time I get around to the rebuild.

I was so happy to finally see these two halves apart!



Sadly, they had to go right back together.  With the studs in I couldn't rest the top half on it's top like I'd have to with the cases apart.  I will proceed to remove the studs, then take the cases back apart.







For now, everything is tucked away on the carts.  Need to roll it next door but will be able to get back into it Wednesday!  Next up I suppose is removing this camshaft, inspecting for wear, replacing the chain guides (might as well since I'm hear!).  Anything else?

[grcamna2]

Hi Atlas,
I just checked and see you're putting a Lot of effort into that engine guy;I'd call it doing it the hard way.PM Larry(MoMo) and ask him for some tips as he's had them apart many more times than I have.

[calj737]

And pulling those studs is going to require a great deal of care, patience, and lots of luck so you don't shear any of them. Begin soaking them NOW in PB Blaster at the top of the threads.

When time comes, I urge you to use a stud puller, lots of heat, and a great deal of care. Many use double-nutting technique, but that creates a good deal of torsion twist on a long, spindly stud. Can work, but a stud puller is able to grip the stud closer to the base of the block. A solid whack with a dead blow, and a swift crack to loosen the stud. If not, heat some more until its cheery red. Patience and persuasion, not brute force.

[iiAtlas]

Hi Atlas,
I just checked and see you're putting a Lot of effort into that engine guy;I'd call it doing it the hard way.PM Larry(MoMo) and ask him for some tips as he's had them apart many more times than I have.

Yes, certainly doing it the hard way!!  I underestimated the steps required before splitting the cases, I thought the hard part would come next...welp, that may be true but I certainly made this part hard too!  My main problem was neglecting to remove the primary shaft.  I suppose I removed the secondary and called it primary.  That resulted in a lot of frustration both when reading the manuals and when trying to pull the ol girl apart!  After I removed the primary shaft she still wouldn't go.  I deduced I had to split that cog the main chain sits on, so I went at it.  There is probably a better way but I sort of just angled it into place back and forth until it split.  Then I was able to turn the case on it's head (hard with the studs still in hence why I had it between my legs) and...it split! 

Anyways...happy to have it open.  I'll PM MoMo in a few and see if he has any tips on the best order to split the cases, for future reference.  Thanks for the comment grcamna2 glad to see you're here!

And pulling those studs is going to require a great deal of care, patience, and lots of luck so you don't shear any of them. Begin soaking them NOW in PB Blaster at the top of the threads.

When time comes, I urge you to use a stud puller, lots of heat, and a great deal of care. Many use double-nutting technique, but that creates a good deal of torsion twist on a long, spindly stud. Can work, but a stud puller is able to grip the stud closer to the base of the block. A solid whack with a dead blow, and a swift crack to loosen the stud. If not, heat some more until its cheery red. Patience and persuasion, not brute force.

Hey Cal!  Thanks for the tips.  Would you recommend NOT removing the studs?  It's an option, just makes storage and working on that top have of the crank case a lot more difficult...Happy to order a stud puller, how about one like this?  Now once I get these removed I am technically not supposed to reuse them, correct?  I have not been able to find a set of aftermarket 350F studs so that would be a concern.

[grcamna2]

Atlas,
The last thing you would want to do is 'fight it' coming apart;just keep following the sequence the book describes.A beer or 2 helps sometimes 

[iiAtlas]

Atlas,
The last thing you would want to do is 'fight it' coming apart;just keep following the sequence the book describes.A beer or 2 helps sometimes 

Hah yes tried to be gentle but kept getting snagged, for the longest time I couldn't work out what on.  Neither book seemed to do the trick for me.  The clymer simply states "split the cases" and the OEM manual jumps left and right.  They mention pull the primary shaft out to the right, but never splitting the cam cog - or at least never to my eyes...I am sure the error is that of the beholder but alas, he we are 

[calj737]

That type of puller works, but you'll need to cut off the stud in order to get the puller low enough to the block. Studs can be re-used if not damaged, but I'd prefer to replace them if you pull them or they show wear.

[iiAtlas]

That type of puller works, but you'll need to cut off the stud in order to get the puller low enough to the block. Studs can be re-used if not damaged, but I'd prefer to replace them if you pull them or they show wear.

Ahh okay, would rather not cut the stud if I can help it.  All I can find is APE studs for the 400F.  I will keep looking for a less destructive way to remove the studs.

[grcamna2]

That type of puller works, but you'll need to cut off the stud in order to get the puller low enough to the block. Studs can be re-used if not damaged, but I'd prefer to replace them if you pull them or they show wear.

Ahh okay, would rather not cut the stud if I can help it.  All I can find is APE studs for the 400F.  I will keep looking for a less destructive way to remove the studs.

What cond. are the orig. cyl. studs? possibly you can leave them as is unless they are very rusted.. ?

[iiAtlas]

That type of puller works, but you'll need to cut off the stud in order to get the puller low enough to the block. Studs can be re-used if not damaged, but I'd prefer to replace them if you pull them or they show wear.

Ahh okay, would rather not cut the stud if I can help it.  All I can find is APE studs for the 400F.  I will keep looking for a less destructive way to remove the studs.

What cond. are the orig. cyl. studs? possibly you can leave them as is unless they are very rusted.. ?

They look fine!  My main reasoning for wanting to remove the was it is a pain to work on the top half of the crankcase with them in.  I can't really come up with a good way to position it.

Honda in a box...

[grcamna2]

Atlas,
I thought I'd use your "Honda in a box" idea and see if you could take some wood and build yourself either an engine stand where you could bolt your engine into the motor mount bolts or possibly find a strong wooden box/crate already built and modify it to accept your engine top crankcase upside down w/ the cyl. studs sticking downward through it 

[iiAtlas]

Atlas,
I thought I'd use your "Honda in a box" idea and see if you could take some wood and build yourself either an engine stand where you could bolt your engine into the motor mount bolts or possibly find a strong wooden box/crate already built and modify it to accept your engine top crankcase upside down w/ the cyl. studs sticking downward through it 

Honda in a box...I'll try it!