Author Topic: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build  (Read 104163 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 540nova

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 589
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #450 on: December 09, 2016, 08:42:01 AM »
Others will disagree, but I highly recommend a Charlie's Place ignition as opposed to Pamco. Speaking from experience, I have had both. Enough said on that, take it for what it's worth


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #451 on: December 09, 2016, 08:43:58 AM »

Offline seanbarney41

  • not really that much younger than an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,915
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #452 on: December 09, 2016, 09:32:51 AM »
I'd just to ditch the points asap... points are great on sohc4, not so much on the twins
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #453 on: December 09, 2016, 11:41:35 AM »
I'd just to ditch the points asap... points are great on sohc4, not so much on the twins

Speaking of, check this...







PS: Guess where all that blood is from...damn exhaust...

I would consider that some pretty significant pitting on both sets of points, agreed?  Most likely from that arcing we saw in the past videos.  I will try to file these down to see if I notice an improvement.  I took the mechanical advance off too.  It was pretty sticky, most likely from that cam lobe grease flying around, but not "rusty" as far as I could tell.  Tossed it in the parts cleaner nonetheless.

Before:



After:




Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

  • Speak up, Whipper-Snapper! I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,556
  • SOHC/4 Member #1235
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #454 on: December 09, 2016, 01:31:47 PM »
Nice little battle wounds.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #455 on: December 09, 2016, 01:41:14 PM »
Nice little battle wounds.

Can't go near this thing without getting another!  ::)


Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,282
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #456 on: December 09, 2016, 01:43:17 PM »
The heat shields on the CL model exh.'s have lots of sharp edges.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #457 on: December 09, 2016, 03:47:58 PM »
The heat shields on the CL model exh.'s have lots of sharp edges.

You're telling me!   ;D

Anyways, got the mechanical advance unit cleaned up and reinstalled.



She is actuating free and clear, so I am at least confident mechanically the unit is not seized.  I have yet to hook up the timing gun.  We sanded down the points with 400 grit paper (useless, I know).  We set the static timing to a tee.  The points are still arcing out of control and the bike, again, will not rev past 5k rpms.  The points will need to be replaced and I am leaning towards the Pamco unit.  I hope this will solve the problem..

Two other things worth mentioning.

1) We messed with the pilot screw.  I know you all mentioned this only affected the mixture at and just off idle but we played around with it anyone.  The base setting is 1 1/8 turns out.  When turning the the screw all the way IN the affected RPM range shifts to 6k rpm.  When turning the screw all the way OUT the affected RPM range shifts to 4k RPM.  Interesting or moot?

2) I just remembered the float valve I rebuilt both with looked different than the remaining OEM one.

OEM:





Replacement:



The way I see it setting the float height to 26mm would be compensating for this as the reference line is static, the float bowl.  But alas maybe I am wrong.  Another thread worth a read..sounds eerily similar: http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/49-fuel-supply-carburation/21437-722a-carbs-lean-26mm-float-height.html

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,282
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #458 on: December 09, 2016, 04:32:49 PM »
Pamco ?  ::)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #459 on: December 09, 2016, 04:39:47 PM »
Pamco ?  ::)

Yes will go Pamco  8)

Ride report (not from me) -- bike pulled hard and revved clean through 7k when warm with choke ON. Issue remains with choke off. Thoughts?

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,548
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #460 on: December 09, 2016, 05:31:14 PM »
A lot of your images show up as broken images, nothing there.  Any idea what is going on with that.  I thought it was the tablet I'm using but it even does it on my PC with Chrome.

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #461 on: December 09, 2016, 05:33:28 PM »
A lot of your images show up as broken images, nothing there.  Any idea what is going on with that.  I thought it was the tablet I'm using but it even does it on my PC with Chrome.

David

Shoot I am sorry to hear that David!  I've had that issue happen a few times with the image host I use...can anyone else confirm?  I do love my images...

Offline seanbarney41

  • not really that much younger than an
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,915
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #462 on: December 09, 2016, 07:34:32 PM »
pictures show fine to me...I dont remember if these carbs have adjustable needles?
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,282
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #463 on: December 09, 2016, 07:44:59 PM »
Atlas,
I always clean-up the orig. carbs. brass parts rather than replacing it w/ suspect 'carb. kits'
The thing I do replace is all the rubber o-rings,etc. w/ an oem Honda rubber seal kit;stock parts never mess up.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline RAFster122s

  • I feel like a really really
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 12,548
  • SOHC4 member # 2605
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #464 on: December 10, 2016, 01:32:10 AM »
Atlas,
When did you last change the condensors? Might be a weak condensor issue.
What are your floats set to?  Have you checked the fuel height with a clear tube method?
(attach tube to drain port with either a fitting that screws in with barb or a tube that can be inserted into the opening to seal and allow fuel to fill the tube. You hold the tube up beside the float bowl and it will reach the height that is inside the float bowl before the float closes the fuel feed needle.

Is the above 5 k with the bike stationary with a fan blowing on the front or under load trying to ride the bike?

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #465 on: December 10, 2016, 07:41:10 AM »
pictures show fine to me...I dont remember if these carbs have adjustable needles?

No such luck! My only points of adjustment are float level, throttle stop screw, and pilot screw.

Atlas,
I always clean-up the orig. carbs. brass parts rather than replacing it w/ suspect 'carb. kits'
The thing I do replace is all the rubber o-rings,etc. w/ an oem Honda rubber seal kit;stock parts never mess up.

I wish I had this option!  Sadly only one carb had the OEM brass and it was rather chewed up.  I've cleaned up all the jets and would be happy to reinstall, but that would only result in one OEM carb leaving the other one left with the iffy brass.

Atlas,
When did you last change the condensors? Might be a weak condensor issue.
What are your floats set to?  Have you checked the fuel height with a clear tube method?
(attach tube to drain port with either a fitting that screws in with barb or a tube that can be inserted into the opening to seal and allow fuel to fill the tube. You hold the tube up beside the float bowl and it will reach the height that is inside the float bowl before the float closes the fuel feed needle.

Is the above 5 k with the bike stationary with a fan blowing on the front or under load trying to ride the bike?

David

Condensers look like they were never changed.  I am leaning towards the Pamco unit but after we saw that improvement with the choke on it made me think the problem is not local to there, rather the carbs.  I will check the float height with the clear tube method later in the weekend, I haven't tried that but I do have some clear tube lying around.  It may be worth noting that despite the fuel seeping out the float bowl sides I have yet to see any fuel out the overflow tubes.

The 5k is both stationary and under load, though when stationary we can occasionally "overcome" the stumble and rev higher where as under load we cannot.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #466 on: December 10, 2016, 02:03:25 PM »
Have you bothered to check the plug caps for their resistance value?

No..how would I do that?

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #467 on: December 21, 2016, 03:19:27 PM »
I'm going to need a bigger parts cleaner!  ;)


Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,282
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #468 on: December 21, 2016, 03:40:24 PM »
You maybe could do 1/2 at a time..
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #469 on: December 21, 2016, 03:42:04 PM »
You maybe could do 1/2 at a time..

Slow going, I'll inch it around every 30 minutes.  Could remove the tray and let is rest a bit deeper if I could come up with something to suspend it from.

Offline MoMo

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,271
  • Ride like you're invisible
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #470 on: December 21, 2016, 04:11:49 PM »
You maybe could do 1/2 at a time..


or you could just work on smaller bikes ::)

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #471 on: December 22, 2016, 08:02:03 AM »
You maybe could do 1/2 at a time..


or you could just work on smaller bikes ::)

Hah!  I thought thats what I was doing...

Anyways, some progress is better than none..right?





Around, around, the engine block goes - It is cleaning up quite well!  Will have some pictures to show you all soon.  Happy with how this is coming out though!  Next I will try to pressure wash it to get the areas I couldn't reach with the parts cleaner.  I'd try to clean them up just in the sink but I don't have one big enough!!

The only spot I think I made a mistake on was here:



I left this roller bearing and the one opposite it in place.  They are removable with just those two circlips.  Probably not wise to have them sitting in the solvent?  You tell me.

In between rotations of the crank case I decided to tackle something, anything, else.  I went over to my overwhelming pile of parts and picked these two out.



Plan of attack was 220 grit sandpaper then red scotchbrite for a majority of the work, then polish up with the higher grit gray scotchbrite.  They were already buggered so I wasn't worried about sanding the fork tubes.  If it got better: great, if not: they were in need of replacement anyway.



The bottom portion of the forks began to clean up well.





And much to my surprise so did the tops!  I will keep working it but I think this is a good direction.  I will at least be able to rebuild the bike with these forks.  Should they just keep chewing through fork seals well then I'll know it's time to replace.  That was all for last night!

As for the CL350, I ordered the Pamco ignition and will be installing that in the new year.  Will try 24mm on the floats to see if that helps with the overly rich mixture and seepage out the float bowls.

Now don't get me started on the other projects....all this just to remove the oil pan!

« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 08:03:45 AM by iiAtlas »

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,282
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #472 on: December 22, 2016, 08:37:19 AM »
Atlas, is that a red Volvo sport coupe? What model ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #473 on: December 22, 2016, 09:15:55 AM »
If you have some, wipe the fork tubes (uppers) with some Marvel Mystery Oil. That will help stall any rust.

Thanks Cal, will do!

Atlas, is that a red Volvo sport coupe? What model ?

It is!  1971 P1800E (though converted to a webber carb, somewhat sadly...) the original fuel injection system is troublesome and pricy..but we'll go back to it one day.

Offline grcamna2

  • Not a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,282
  • I love to restore & travel. Keep'em Going Strong !
Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #474 on: December 22, 2016, 10:22:16 AM »
If you have some, wipe the fork tubes (uppers) with some Marvel Mystery Oil. That will help stall any rust.

Thanks Cal, will do!

Atlas, is that a red Volvo sport coupe? What model ?

It is!  1971 P1800E (though converted to a webber carb, somewhat sadly...) the original fuel injection system is troublesome and pricy..but we'll go back to it one day.

I hope to find one of those someday from someone who's desperate for $.. an 'it's all gotta go,Moving sale,etc.' and that is one nice vintage Volvo,I'd trade my 240 for it ANY day  :)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.