Author Topic: Oh no, another rattlecan paint related question (Read 4829 times)

76400F · « **on:** January 29, 2016, 03:47:28 PM »

So after reading at least 3842 forum threads on the best way to rattlecan motorcycle parts, I'm counting on my newfound brothers on SOHC4 to finally steer me straight. Yesterday I sent my frame, hubs, rims, triple tree, motor mount plates and springs to PC, but I want the flexibility to paint other smaller parts as I go along to avoid the costs and turn around time associated with PC.

So today, following the advice of at least 10 other threads, I primed my lower forks with Duplicolor self-etching primer, about 3 light coats and 2 heavier coats, allowing it to flash properly in between coats, then used Rustoleum appliance epoxy over top. The results were immediately crap. There was obviously some kind of reaction and it just went downhill from there. So it's back in the blast cabinet and starting from scratch tomorrow.

Can anyone tell me from first hand experience what the best combination of primer/paint/clear coat is to use in this case.

jaycox · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:22:19 PM »

You used 2 different types of paint. Epoxy appliance paint is a laquer and the other a acrylic, so they will react that way. You need to use same types of primers and paints together, they can never ever be mixed, no matter how long they have cured it will always wreck it.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:32:15 PM »

Quote from: jaycox on January 29, 2016, 04:22:19 PM

You used 2 different types of paint. Epoxy appliance paint is a laquer and the other a acrylic, so they will react that way. You need to use same types of primers and paints together, they can never ever be mixed, no matter how long they have cured it will always wreck it.

Yes.

76400F · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:35:58 PM »

So I guess the rule is you can paint an enamel over a lacquer, but not the other way around. My understanding is the Duplicolor is a lacquer and the Rustoleum is an enamel, so I shouldn't have had any problems. I've heard a lot of guys use this combination. Stuff like this drives me crazy...

grcamna2 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:41:24 PM »

Quote from: 76400F on January 29, 2016, 04:35:58 PM

So I guess the rule is you can paint an enamel over a lacquer, but not the other way around. My understanding is the Duplicolor is a lacquer and the Rustoleum is an enamel, so I shouldn't have had any problems. I've heard a lot of guys use this combination. Stuff like this drives me crazy...

I've heard Rustolem has some additive in their paint(fish oil?)that makes it like to have both primer and finish coat use 'ole Rusty' for both,at least that's been my experience..

I had lot's of 'fish eye' otherwise,it could have been my prep but I didn't keep trying w/ that paint.

76400F · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:44:53 PM »

Is the rustoleum primer ok for aluminum?

jaycox · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:46:24 PM »

No, I'm pretty sure you can't mix the paint no matter which order it goes on. It's a chemical reaction and always happens i believe.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:47:26 PM »

I stopped using Rustoleum a while back,possibly others here will know.

76400F · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:51:38 PM »

Here's what Duplicolor's website says:

http://www.duplicolor.com/assets/documents/application-tips.pdf

76400F · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2016, 04:53:50 PM »

They say an enamel can be applied over lacquer, but not he other way around. Is it just me, or does that not make any sense...

So if I was to go with the same type of primer and paint, what would be recommended?

grcamna2 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2016, 05:01:21 PM »

I've used Duplicolor engine enamel quite a bit.I primed it first w/ the Duplicolor #DE1612 compatible engine enamel and then top coated w/ Duplicolor DE1615(which is a good match for the Honda oem silver engine paint) within an hr. and after a few hrs. I cured it in an oven for a while and it came out good and durable.This was on aluminum parts;prep is important and I usually prep the parts by washing them w/ good soap and water and then dry them.

jaycox · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2016, 05:04:39 PM »

Quote from: 76400F on January 29, 2016, 04:51:38 PM

Here's what Duplicolor's website says:

http://www.duplicolor.com/assets/documents/application-tips.pdf

Well there you go then...give it a try. I wasn't 100% sure.

RevDoc · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2016, 08:23:34 PM »

You say the first attempt turned to crap. If you mean it had the appearance of what is called "fish eyes" than you may have not had clean metal. I have a good friend who had an automotive and industrial paint shop for years. He told me that reaction can be caused when oil or grease has sat on metal for a long time and has penetrated into the pores of the metal. It requires very thorough prep with a good solvent before priming. I usually give parts a good scrubbing with mineral spirits, sand and rewash with mineral spirits again. Prime after that and never had a problem following that series.

70CB750 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2016, 04:32:41 AM »

For smooth surface you want to use sandable primer.

76400F · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:10:32 AM »

I litterally walked from the blast cabinet to the paintbooth. I already had the ends taped and the holes plugged (I use foam ear plugs - they expand inside the holes and work quite well). The primer went on perfectly and was smooth and perfect. It was immediately after putting on the first coat of Rustoleum appliance epoxy.

Stev-o · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:36:28 AM »

I prefer polished lowers....

grcamna2 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2016, 07:50:27 AM »

Quote from: 76400F on January 29, 2016, 03:47:28 PM

So after reading at least 3842 forum threads on the best way to rattlecan motorcycle parts, I'm counting on my newfound brothers on SOHC4 to finally steer me straight. Yesterday I sent my frame, hubs, rims, triple tree, motor mount plates and springs to PC, but I want the flexibility to paint other smaller parts as I go along to avoid the costs and turn around time associated with PC.

So today, following the advice of at least 10 other threads, I primed my lower forks with Duplicolor self-etching primer, about 3 light coats and 2 heavier coats, allowing it to flash properly in between coats, then used Rustoleum appliance epoxy over top. The results were immediately crap. There was obviously some kind of reaction and it just went downhill from there. So it's back in the blast cabinet and starting from scratch tomorrow.

Can anyone tell me from first hand experience what the best combination of primer/paint/clear coat is to use in this case.

Duplicolor I think is most compatible w/ itself + making sure the parts stay warm while in process;as per the last post from Stev-o, polishing will last much longer than rattle can paint(it doesn't have enough hardener)as it will chip more easily especially on fork lowers. imo

CycleRanger · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2016, 11:10:22 AM »

I painted the lower forks on my CJ360T using VHT Satin Black. No primer.
I was pleased with the final results.

I've had good results using both VHT gloss and satin black when used without primer.

Don R · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2016, 11:13:10 AM »

Read and follow the label directions. LOL, sorry I had to say it.

DohcBikes · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2016, 12:39:02 PM »

I use VHT over duplicolor etch primer whenever possible

CycleRanger · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2016, 12:46:54 PM »

Quote from: DohcBikes on January 30, 2016, 12:39:02 PM

I use VHT over duplicolor etch primer whenever possible

I should try the Duplicolor primer.
I got burned using Rustoleum primer with the VHT but I haven't (yet) had any issues with primer-less VHT.

DohcBikes · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2016, 12:53:09 PM »

For those who dont know VHT is produced by duplicolor

76400F · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2016, 01:58:12 PM »

So here's the plan going forward:

Duplicolor self etching primer
Duplicolor "Aluminum" (#1615) engine enamel
Duplicolor Acrylic Polymer clear coat

There's a bunch of other parts I want to do 'silver' so hopefully this will provide decent results. And I'll make sure to follow the instructions more closely this time...

If all else fails, I'll polish them out. Does anyone know where I can find the compound and buffing wheels here in Canada?

Don R · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:03:53 PM »

Lowes had wheels and rouge if you have those stores. I'd scotchbrite it then buff. The cases should be painted, some guys have baked the paint in a makeshift foil tent with a hot air gun.

76400F · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2016, 02:14:13 PM »

Thanks Don. Yes we have Lowes here now just down the road. Never would have thought to check there. Awesome. For the baking part later on I'm going to use a welding rod oven at work.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Much appreciated.

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Author Topic: Oh no, another rattlecan paint related question (Read 4829 times)