Topic: CBR 1000 front end swap

[ChopSticks]

I have an opportunity to grab a full '06 CBR 1000 front end less the wheels. So basically the shocks/forks, triple tree, stem, handle bars, clutch and brake levers and calipers 

Before you say search or google, I've done a little researching but really haven't come up with anything that corresponds with swapping the CBR1000 on to an earlier 750K

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:forums.sohc4.net+CBR+1000

The best I get is 550 threads and GSXR swaps.

So with that said is this a fairly easy conversion? I know there are stem size differences but I found this:

http://cognitomoto.com/products/cbr600rr-cbr1000rr-fork-on-honda-cb750-frame-conversion-stem?variant=840380213

would this make it a direct bolt on with new bearings? As for pressing the stem out I found these sources

Just want to get an idea of how hard this project is going to be on a scale of 1 to "don't bother just pay someone else to do it"

Also would I need to get CBR wheels or would a different set with dual rotors fit? The wheels were quoted at $450 for the pair

Lastly, would the CBR swingarm  fit on the 750 frame?

[calj737]

You have found the solution for the front end with the Cognito stem. All Ballz tapered bearings is the finishing touch. As for wheels, y can either run stock CBR wheels, or you can use a custom hub from Cognito also and lace up a spoked rim.

The CBR swing arm will not be a plug and play. It's going to take some fabrication and machining to fit it up.

[Retro Rocket]

I have an opportunity to grab a full '06 CBR 1000 front end less the wheels. So basically the shocks/forks, triple tree, stem, handle bars, clutch and brake levers and calipers 

Before you say search or google, I've done a little researching but really haven't come up with anything that corresponds with swapping the CBR1000 on to an earlier 750K

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:forums.sohc4.net+CBR+1000

The best I get is 550 threads and GSXR swaps.

So with that said is this a fairly easy conversion? I know there are stem size differences but I found this:

http://cognitomoto.com/products/cbr600rr-cbr1000rr-fork-on-honda-cb750-frame-conversion-stem?variant=840380213

would this make it a direct bolt on with new bearings? As for pressing the stem out I found these sources

Just want to get an idea of how hard this project is going to be on a scale of 1 to "don't bother just pay someone else to do it"

Also would I need to get CBR wheels or would a different set with dual rotors fit? The wheels were quoted at $450 for the pair

Lastly, would the CBR swingarm  fit on the 750 frame?

What wheels are you using..? If you aren't using the CBR wheels you'll have to mate bearings up to what ever wheels you use and make spacers up to fit. What offset is the CBR triple clamps, I'm having clamps made up to suit the forks because the stock clamps have too little offset. Have you ever done anything like this before..? Its definitely not straight forward but its doable...   Most any swingarm conversion from a monoshock bike will require cutting up the swingarm and re welding to make it fit both the pivot and the correct length, unless you are just doing all this for "looks", in that case i'm not interested....

[ChopSticks]

You have found the solution for the front end with the Cognito stem. All Ballz tapered bearings is the finishing touch. As for wheels, y can either run stock CBR wheels, or you can use a custom hub from Cognito also and lace up a spoked rim.

The CBR swing arm will not be a plug and play. It's going to take some fabrication and machining to fit it up.

What other alternatives are there for the rear wheel?

Considering the cognito hub is $300 I might just grab the stock set from the seller.

I have no idea what the current market is for a complete '06 front end, is $400 market value? He's selling them wheels as a set for $450, so all in all the conversion would be at a minimum

$400 front end
$450 wheels
$120 cognito stem
$50 bearings

[Retro Rocket]

the wheels are NOT worth $450, I just bought 2 mag wheels in the states and had them shipped to Australia for nearly half that. If you want to check out the prices try ebay, they aren't a sought after wheel, I would not pay over 50/60 dollars each for them.... I wouldn't even pay $400 for that front end... I have bought 2 1989 GSXR1100 fully adjustable front ends, far better than the CBR front end for less than half the price again of that CBR front end, once again, they are NOT sought after parts and should be far cheaper.....

[ChopSticks]

What wheels are you using..? If you aren't using the CBR wheels you'll have to mate bearings up to what ever wheels you use and make spacers up to fit. What offset is the CBR triple clamps, I'm having clamps made up to suit the forks because the stock clamps have too little offset. Have you ever done anything like this before..? Its definitely not straight forward but its doable...   Most any swingarm conversion from a monoshock bike will require cutting up the swingarm and re welding to make it fit both the pivot and the correct length, unless you are just doing all this for "looks", in that case i'm not interested....

I have never done any of this before... the reason I am entertaining the idea is what I'm projecting I'll need to do the current stock front end anyways and if it's an easier solution to just upgrade the whole thing.

Ultimately I would like a dual brake set up so with the current stock I'll have to find dual rotors, calipers, and forks anyways. Then there's cleaning and the master cyclinder, getting different handle bars etc. So instead of doing a few individual mini projects, my train of thought currently is why not just do one big swap?

[ChopSticks]

the wheels are NOT worth $450, I just bought 2 mag wheels in the states and had them shipped to Australia for nearly half that. If you want to check out the prices try ebay, they aren't a sought after wheel, I would not pay over 50/60 dollars each for them.... I wouldn't even pay $400 for that front end... I have bought 2 1989 GSXR1100 fully adjustable front ends, far better than the CBR front end for less than half the price again of that CBR front end, once again, they are NOT sought after parts and should be far cheaper.....

That's what I thought too, but after looking on ebay the cheapest I can find a wheel is ~$150 and that's only one of them and without a tire. So figured with a tire (seller says it's new) and both rotors and the axel and all the corresponding spaces/bearings (it's coming off a whole non wrecked bike) I figured $450 was reasonable

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=2006+cbr+1000+front+wheels&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.X2006+cbr+1000+wheels.TRS1&_nkw=2006+cbr+1000+wheels&_sacat=0



As for the front end the closest I get is this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-07-CBR-1000rr-1000-2006-2007-HONDA-FRONT-END-FORKS-FORK-TRIPLE-TREE-CLAMP-TOP-/262259018671?hash=item3d0fdb0baf:g:nDIAAOSw5dNWpmcJ&vxp=mtr

and that doesn't include the handlbars, levers, or master cylinder.

Only reason why I even bothered to contact the guy. Since now I know they should be "far cheaper" how much should I be expecting to drop for a whole front end?

[Retro Rocket]

Sorry, I misread the original post, i was referring to a 1996 cbr, yours is a 2006. The CBR is a very light bike so maybe the spring rates will be too light, its pretty much the same type of swap as a late model GSXR swap, you are talking about the fireblade, cbr1000rr..?  The parts for them are definitely more expensive, with brakes thats a good price, sorry for the confusion, the CBR1000 is an earlier model......

[ChopSticks]

Other than spring rates do you see any issues that may arise? Clamp offset? or was that only on the '96?

[Retro Rocket]

Other than spring rates do you see any issues that may arise? Clamp offset? or was that only on the '96?

Clamp offset is probably smaller on the later CBR1000rr {my brother has one} , so its still a problem, the smaller the offset, the bigger the trail, big trail numbers slow down steering response and input, not only that, it will change one aspect of handling at the front while the rear remains the same, any changes done properly to the front should always be reflected at the rear, thats why Cognito moto offer adjustable offset clamps so the front end can be "tuned". You also haver to factor in 17 inch wheels which can effect steering as well, the smaller diameter the wheel the faster it wants to turn in, mate that up with slow trail and you'll have a bike that wants to "flop" or "fall" into corners...  Its really not that straight forward, lots of conversions i see are done wrong, It seems a lot of people don't know what a good handling bike feels like or simply don't care....

[ChopSticks]

No I hear ya, I've seen some other threads about the geometry etc just haven't been able to do the calculations since I just ran into this opportunity few hours ago. Does your brother have the 1000rr conversion on a 750? Or actually the whole bike?

I would ideally like to have good handling. Lets so no offset is done to the front, could it be compensated with changing the rear? I'm assuming the rear CBR tire won't be able to be used?

[Retro Rocket]

No I hear ya, I've seen some other threads about the geometry etc just haven't been able to do the calculations since I just ran into this opportunity few hours ago. Does your brother have the 1000rr conversion on a 750? Or actually the whole bike?

I would ideally like to have good handling. Lets so no offset is done to the front, could it be compensated with changing the rear? I'm assuming the rear CBR tire won't be able to be used?

My Brother has a 2014 CBR1000RR, The rear CBR will be 17 X 5.5 or 6 inch, lots of screwing round to get it right and you'd probably have to use offset sprockets and still have the rear CBR sprocket carrier machined to correct the chain line as well as make up spacers and match bearings, these conversions effect everything... To keep the handling stock or close you are better off using an 18 or 19 inch front wheel, using 17's plus the slightly shorter CBR front end will reduce ground clearance too, thats another reason Cognito do the hub conversions. If you were to lengthen the rear to match the smaller offset/ longer trail, you'd end up with a bike thats a bit of a handful to ride in the mountains, thats why I always recommend doing these conversions properly. I'm in the middle of sorting one out at the moment, A 2008 CBF1000 front forks with either 18 inch mag wheel of a 19 inch spoked wheel, once i work out the bearings i need, and if i can actually get them, I'll proceed, I'm going with custom made triple clamps to get the trail I want too...   There's quite a lot to,  it isn't there..?   

[ChopSticks]

"A lot" doesn't even sound like the beginning   

I would ideally like to lower the bike to a reasonable height, with the smaller front rim could I just replace a smaller rear? Not necessarily the cbr but something that bolts on the stock 750? Or even a bigger tire? Then maybe shorten the rear springs to compensate for the shorter fork? Or should I just forget the CBR wheels entirely and get the fork set up while I can?

Ultimately, should I just hop on this "deal" and worry about logistics later? Or at this price is it worth just waiting for another opportunity to come up while the whole geometry is figured out?

[Retro Rocket]

"A lot" doesn't even sound like the beginning   

I would ideally like to lower the bike to a reasonable height, with the smaller front rim could I just replace a smaller rear? Not necessarily the cbr but something that bolts on the stock 750? Or even a bigger tire? Then maybe shorten the rear springs to compensate for the shorter fork? Or should I just forget the CBR wheels entirely and get the fork set up while I can?

Ultimately, should I just hop on this "deal" and worry about logistics later? Or at this price is it worth just waiting for another opportunity to come up while the whole geometry is figured out?

Look, its entirely up too you, are you able to check out all the things mentioned..?  Are you confident you can take this on,? the forks will be good forks, If I were doing this myself I would use 18 x18 or 18 x19 inch wheels, you can go wider in these sizes, 18 front and rear is the best sizes for going a bit wider, lots of old Honda's race with these size wheels because they work,and there are decent tires in these size wheels too. I wouldn't worry about 17 inch rims unless you really know what you are doing, lowering the bike will also effect handling by reducing ground clearance... These bikes already scrape fairly easily in corners... How tall are you..?

[ChopSticks]

I'm 6'

I am in no rush to do the swap (getting the bike to run reliably is first priority) but would ultimately have to address some front end issues or maintenance/upgrades. With that said I think I would be able to check everything out, but since the rear is already 18 if I change the front to 18s would the effort just be finding the right wheel, rotors, and spacing? (let's say I don't go the cognito hub way) and keeping the rear stock? or would the rear have to be address no matter what front I end up with?

[Retro Rocket]

I'm 6'

I am in no rush to do the swap (getting the bike to run reliably is first priority) but would ultimately have to address some front end issues or maintenance/upgrades. With that said I think I would be able to check everything out, but since the rear is already 18 if I change the front to 18s would the effort just be finding the right wheel, rotors, and spacing? (let's say I don't go the cognito hub way) and keeping the rear stock? or would the rear have to be address no matter what front I end up with?

The biggest problem i've struck with the honda wheels on a modern front end is the axle size, you need wheel bearings that match the Honda wheel bearing case outside diameter, and the axle's   diameter as the bearings inside diameter {understand
?} , this is where i'm up too with mine but using different wheels in 18 inch, I'm off to the bearing shop next week and taking the wheels and axle..  The cognito hub is far less trouble if using spoke wheels, I'm using mag wheels so i have different problems and the cognito hub is useless for me...  I recommend if using spokes getting the Cognito hub, it will save you some serious heaqdaches and discs will bolt straight up from the CBR, I think he does a CBR conversion hub..?

[ChopSticks]

Yeah I saw they have the CBR 1000 hub, I don't mind dropping the $ on the hub, as long as nothing in the rear needs to be changed with this set up. As much as I would love to have everything perfect, budget is still a major factor. With the cognito hub, I'd have to get a couple rotors which is looking like minimum $100 atm. Assuming the hub doesn't come with the axle or bearing that's looking like another $35 for axle, how much do wheel bearings usually run?

the cognito hub would be the same budget as long as you don't see any drastic changes needed to be performed on the rear

[calj737]

With the Cogntio hub you can just run the stock rear wheel. Simple as that. Bearings are pretty cheap and he sells them too.

[Retro Rocket]

Yeah I saw they have the CBR 1000 hub, I don't mind dropping the $ on the hub, as long as nothing in the rear needs to be changed with this set up. As much as I would love to have everything perfect, budget is still a major factor. With the cognito hub, I'd have to get a couple rotors which is looking like minimum $100 atm. Assuming the hub doesn't come with the axle or bearing that's looking like another $35 for axle, how much do wheel bearings usually run?

the cognito hub would be the same budget as long as you don't see any drastic changes needed to be performed on the rear

Ask Cal about Devons stuff {cognito moto}, I'm sure he can supply bearings, the axle should come with the forks..?  Try and twist his arm, it pisses me off when guys do that, the axle should ALWAYS come with the front end..  The rear won't need any changes but if i were doing the front with an 18 inch rim I'd go for a 2.15 x18 inch front and a 3.5 x 18 inch rear, they match up well and were a common upgrade for racing, I actually have a set exactly the same, adds a little size to the tires, 100 up front and a 120/130 at the rear and fits easily... You can go with stock sizes as Cal pointed out...

[ChopSticks]

Great, probably a noob question but I should be able to relace any 18 rim right? Could even been a stock rear 18 750 rim? Is it safe to estimate another $100 for rim and spokes?

[calj737]

If you use new stainless spokes, they're about $2@ so that $80 per wheel. You need to make sure the rims are 40 hole and not 36 if you want to use the stock hub(s).

[turboed13b]

Great, probably a noob question but I should be able to relace any 18 rim right? Could even been a stock rear 18 750 rim? Is it safe to estimate another $100 for rim and spokes?

A rear 18in rim will not lace to a front hub spoke angles are wrong.

[Retro Rocket]

If you use new stainless spokes, they're about $2@ so that $80 per wheel. You need to make sure the rims are 40 hole and not 36 if you want to use the stock hub(s).

Or cognito's hub, which will be easier, the stock front hub has a far smaller axle size, just remember that, I haven't sourced bearings for a stock to suit a larger  axle yet....

Great, probably a noob question but I should be able to relace any 18 rim right? Could even been a stock rear 18 750 rim? Is it safe to estimate another $100 for rim and spokes?

A rear 18in rim will not lace to a front hub spoke angles are wrong.

It will if you change the way the spokes go on, Cal will elaborate....

[ChopSticks]

Wait just so there's no confusion

I plan to get the front end without the wheels

Then get the cognito stem and conversion hub just for the front

The rear with stay exactly the same with maybe just changing the tire as rocket suggested.

So with the new cognito front hub would I be able to lace any 18in wheel? Maybe even a 750 rear to keep it similar? *or would he cognito hub not lace properly? Maybe too wide?

[calj737]

If you use new stainless spokes, they're about $2@ so that $80 per wheel. You need to make sure the rims are 40 hole and not 36 if you want to use the stock hub(s).

Or cognito's hub, which will be easier, the stock front hub has a far smaller axle size, just remember that, I haven't sourced bearings for a stock to suit a larger  axle yet....

Great, probably a noob question but I should be able to relace any 18 rim right? Could even been a stock rear 18 750 rim? Is it safe to estimate another $100 for rim and spokes?

A rear 18in rim will not lace to a front hub spoke angles are wrong.

It will if you change the way the spokes go on, Cal will elaborate....

I did in his thread already. I think he's referencing a different issue. Right now, there's like 4 threads all intermingled with hijacks and tangents.

Chopstick - if you order a hub from Cognito, you can buy a 40 or 36 hole for the hub based upon which brand of modern forks you choose. For the rear, just use your stock 750 hub, and get a newer but wider rim 3.5-4.25" in 18", 40 hole. If you choose 4.25, you may have to buy an aluminum rim and that will increase your costs ($200).