Author Topic: ARD On CB550? Differences? (Read 3225 times)

jaguar · « **on:** February 11, 2016, 08:52:55 AM »

I just came across an ARD set up and some of the parts that came with it seem to be more CB550 then CB750.

At one point I wanted to run a magneto on my chopper, and bought an adaptor plate that I was told was removed from a CB550. Only got that plate, nothing else. Actually I have never seen a CB550 with an ARD.

Can see that the plate is drilled for the CB550.

Top is a CB750 unit. For the lack of a better way of describing it, the mounting holes are mirror image of each other.

You can see that the drive post is smaller, and the bearing is smaller too.

BUT things did not bolt up. Can see that the magneto head doesn't fit with the carbs. Maybe a different arm was used on CB550 applications?

jaguar · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2016, 08:58:25 AM »

Mainly the question came up because I just bought this CHEAP on ebay.

I had a spare magneto head so figured I would build up another unit.

The bearing had seized and opened up the hole.

But I noticed that it used the smaller of the two bearings I had ever seen.
And that it seemed to have the 550 pattern drilled in the adaptor plate.

It is mounted to the bracket in such a way that I assume it was most recently used on a CB750, but the plate is drilled for a 550 (they just didn't mount everything 100%)

Anyone have any incite?

754 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2016, 11:32:31 AM »

Is there maybe a difference in mag center to crank center distance, meaning. Also a different belt length..?

jaguar · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2016, 12:35:31 PM »

I have not seen a difference.

BPellerine · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2016, 02:25:31 PM »

there is a pic in the inspiration thread,or sohc on the road of a 550 with an ard on it,think it is also turbo.bill

jaguar · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2016, 03:43:01 PM »

I have a posa set up for that cb550, maybe st will clear.

BPellerine · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2016, 05:55:22 PM »

page 404 inspiration thread.bill

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2016, 06:14:11 PM »

Any body remember the handle of that guy with the yellow turbo street tracker 550? I feel like he has a Magneto on his. Kind of a frequent poster in "Lets See Your SOHC out on the Road"...but maybe not for several Months?

754 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2016, 06:19:10 PM »

Bob 3050. ?_

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2016, 06:46:20 PM »

I think thats him, Frank.

Greggo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2016, 07:44:04 PM »

I have a pic of one on a 500/550 somewhere...I'll see if I can dig it up.

Glad to see something's being done with that plate Jag!

754 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2016, 07:53:41 PM »

I know its 30-50, 30/50, or 3050....but not sure if his name is included.
Found him Bob3050.. He did not have a mag.. They would fit easier with the turbo.

jaguar · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2016, 05:00:45 PM »

Tried it once before.

But this last arm was a $30 deal on ebay so back at it.

Would be fun to have a magneto on each of my SOHCs.
Have lesters on both my CB750s already...lol

jaguar · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2016, 09:18:35 AM »

Okay, so time to tackle the magneto drive gear.

Every unit I have ever worked with had a 30 tooth gear on the magneto and a 15 tooth on the crank.
This makes perfect sense that they are 2:1. I guess it doesnt matter how many teeth are on each gear, as long as they are 2:1.

The 30 tooth XL gear is super easy to fine. Comes in steel or alloy and also has a few options for flanges.
So far there are not many options for bores. I assume that there is not much need for it.
Tried to see if I could get lucky and find one that had a tapered bore to slide right onto the magneto, but no dice.

I have a couple of these gears to mess around with though.

The shaft on the magneto has a slight taper on it. Dont know what it is yet, but should be easy to measure, or look up. Normally the magnetos use a keyway to secure the gear to the shaft, but I have never seen the ARD units with this keyway.

So I need a way to get the two together.
What is the easiest way to machine a tapered bore into the shaft? Lathe? Special bit?
Would kind of like to use a keyway as an "improvement". I can use the smaller gear (with less radius) to do any fine tuning.

Plan to have the 850 Commando buttoned up in a few more weeks. After that I will flip a coil as to the next focus.
Either dig out the chopper motor, get it back together and try and mount one of the magnetos to it, OR drag the Seeley back to the workshop and get another one of the magnetos set up on it.

Fun times.

Greggo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2016, 09:30:50 AM »

Here's the pic I was thinking of...

jaguar · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2016, 09:33:45 AM »

If my memory is right, that was a custom install?
Like not a collection of bolt on parts?

Greggo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2016, 09:43:41 AM »

More info here, and maybe the guy to track down: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,14994.msg199389.html#msg199389

jaguar · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2016, 10:01:58 AM »

Will have to sit and read the thread again.
Lots of good info in there.

On a side note, if anyone needs parts or info on these things, I have a list of needed part numbers and a few sources for them.
Have also done the RC units too.

Have really enjoyed the research and learning about these old speed parts.

754 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2016, 12:35:13 PM »

Taper is usually bored,but can be done with tapered reamer.. But keep in mind. The depth of taper is critical.
On a lathe , the taper is made by tilting the crosslide..requires a lot of care setting up.
If you hold the pulley (not a gear) for boring mount in such a manner that you can fit the shaft and cover to it, to check your offset..
Dont tap it together as it will probably stick. You also need the taper shaft to check your fit of the taper, ie get the angle just right.
When you find components such as he pulleys they usually have a small hole (used in the manufacturing process), then are modded to fit the application.

jaguar · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2016, 01:47:14 PM »

Sounds like a pain.

754 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2016, 03:51:36 PM »

it is a pain if you got to pay someone full nut to do it, that doesnt really care if they get the job..

jaguar · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2016, 04:10:49 PM »

Seems to be most machine shops these days.
They only want to do big production runs.

scottly · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2016, 06:11:44 PM »

One-off parts cost more to make than production parts; it takes a lot of time for set-up for the first part, but it gets faster once a routine can be established.

jaguar · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2016, 06:47:16 PM »

I work in robotics and do some prototyping.
Do get production.

Issue I find is that so many small shops are just holding out for Ford to walk in the front door, they just kick everything else down the road.
Surprised some stay opened.

scottly · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2016, 07:01:33 PM »

It may take one hour or more just to get the compound set at the correct angle, and a couple of hours more to grind a broach to cut the key-way, much less the actual machining time on the pulley. How much are you willing to pay?
If I had to pay shop rates for the custom parts I made for my bike, the bill would have run into the thousands of dollars.

754 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 14, 2016, 07:36:02 PM »

I can usually get compound set in 15 minutes or under and i mean a sef holding fit..
I can run you through it in a paragraph..I developed a trick that takes most of the time out of it..

scottly · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2016, 07:45:10 PM »

The only short-cut I know is to mount the shaft in the chuck, then indicate off the back-side of the taper at the center-line, with the indicator mounted on the compound. When the indicator reads zero across the taper, the angle is correct, but it's a trial and error adjustment. If you know a faster, more accurate way, I'm all ears!

754 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2016, 08:04:24 PM »

Ok you got first part,mount shaft between centers or in tailstock to do that, then mount a dial indicator on the compound a few inches from pivot.
Now take a test cut in a scrap piece, now put three or 4 felt pen lines on the test shaft.. insert and wiggle back and forth..do not spin.
Then read the contact on the part..via the smeared lines.. it tells you the direction to tweak..... adjust compound about 4-6 thou depending on the contact.. and see how that works a few more and you will nail it..
without the dial to control your adjustment.. you go back and forth too many time..tend to overshoot and just takes too long..

scottly · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2016, 08:46:13 PM »

It's pretty difficult to dial-in the compound angle accurately, when you have to loosen the clamp nuts, then "bump" the compound, tighten the nuts, then check again. With no positive way to adjust the angle, it comes down to trial and error.

754 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2016, 08:52:55 PM »

Yes but.. I only lightly snug the bolts for testing, and before I used the dial indicator it took many times longer. it changed setup dramatically. One more thing for testing better than felt marker.. chalk if you got it.

scottly · « **Reply #30 on:** February 14, 2016, 09:06:47 PM »

I've found that just tightening the nuts has a change. I was trying to hold very close tolerances, as even tenths near the center resulted in .015" run-out at the O.D. of a VW flywheel. I have to admit that in Jag's case, a timing belt is much more forgiving.

754 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 14, 2016, 09:22:01 PM »

my compound has 3 bolts . i use 2 whilst setting up. then snug progressively to tighten.. but mine pretty much stays put.. if it does move i can tap it back to dial setting with a soft hammer.. its all about increased control.

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Author Topic: ARD On CB550? Differences? (Read 3225 times)