Topic: Vote for Bike of the Month - March 2016

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Wobbly’s 1977 CB750K7 200,000-mile Grand Tourer
Fairing schmairing!








KiwiShaz  CB350F Cafe
Build Thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154805.0.html







Zunspec/Geoff's 1978 Colin Seeley Honda 750F2 Survivor
Who says you can have white upholstery!?
Build Thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,149748.0/all.html

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Wobbly, KiwiShaz and Geoff:

If possible, please post some information about your bike (how you acquired it, what shape it was in, what you did to it, and how it runs/rides), preferably with photos!  Voting members like to know the backstory of the bike.

Wobbly, I didn't see a build thread for your bike, so a summary would be extremely helpful for members looking for more information on yours.

[Zunspec]

Thanks for the nomination, quite an honour amongst all the great bikes that appear on this board.

I am the 2nd owner of this lovely machine.  The original owner saw it on the Colin Seeley Racing Developments stand at the 1978 Motor Cycle Mechanics & Sporting Show in London and having just received a handsome commission (freelance photographer) bought it on the spot.  He used it for commuting into London for a few years and then it saw little use, although it was kept in good running order up to it's last year on the road in 2002 with 9000 miles on the clock.

Mr Ian Berry the original owner saying a fond farewell


It is very original, unfortunately I had to get a set of replacement silencers made as the Seeley ones had very bad internal corrosion and could not be restored.  I was very lucky to come across this machine, a chance combination of old work pal, a Classic TT parade lap entry and a gentleman who was no longer wanting to ride but wanted the bike to go to someone who would appreciate it.  I made an offer of all I could afford, which was easily only 1/2 to 1/3 of it's eBay value, and Ian accepted.  You should have heard me singing as I trailered it home 

I have no plans to go down the full restoration route, as they say "it's only original once" 

Cheers  Geoff

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Thanks for the nomination, quite an honour amongst all the great bikes that appear on this board.

I am the 2nd owner of this lovely machine.  The original owner saw it on the Colin Seeley Racing Developments stand at the 1978 Motor Cycle Mechanics & Sporting Show in London and having just received a handsome commission (freelance photographer) bought it on the spot.  He used it for commuting into London for a few years and then it saw little use, although it was kept in good running order up to it's last year on the road in 2002 with 9000 miles on the clock.

Mr Ian Berry the original owner saying a fond farewell


It is very original, unfortunately I had to get a set of replacement silencers made as the Seeley ones had very bad internal corrosion and could not be restored.  I was very lucky to come across this machine, a chance combination of old work pal, a Classic TT parade lap entry and a gentleman who was no longer wanting to ride but wanted the bike to go to someone who would appreciate it.  I made an offer of all I could afford, which was easily only 1/2 to 1/3 of it's eBay value, and Ian accepted.  You should have heard me singing as I trailered it home 

I have no plans to go down the full restoration route, as they say "it's only original once" 

Cheers  Geoff

Great story, Geoff, and great photo of the original owner.  That bike has amazing lines.  Enjoy it!!

[Wobbly]

Wobbly, I didn't see a build thread for your bike, so a summary would be extremely helpful for members looking for more information on yours.

There is no "built thread" for my bike. I never made it to Japan, so how could I have a so-called "built thread"?
My bike never was "rebuilt." Anyway, let the honor go to the Seeley--a really special bike. So, now that I see the Seeley, just take me out. I always liked the Seeley, but when I had the opportunity to buy one, I didn't because I couldn't use it to travel with my wife.

I ended up with mine because, in 1977, I didn't have the money yet to buy the Laverda 1000 I really wanted. And the Honda was dirt cheap back then and a great replacement for my 76 F1 which was taken out by a car. I am not into "classic Hondas." I simply grew old with my bike. I drove across the States (from San Diego to N.E. PA), all over Western Europe, and crossed the Sahara in 1983--with clip-on bars and café seat (I posted these and earlier pics here previously). I don't think the Laverda would have handled it so well. In fact, none of my new bikes (BMW, Harley) are as trouble-free as my Honda is--even today. But then again, I never cut corners like many seem to do here. I rather would go to bed with an empty stomach before getting cheap #$%* for my bike. Apparently, that makes a difference. No offense to anybody, but sometimes I read along in disbelieve. In addition, my bike is offending the latest fashion trend by maintaining its fenders and signals--which has to do with me actually riding it. Furthermore, I rather cut my arm off before I would total my frame by putting a so-called frame kit in. I guess, I have been stationed in Germany too long where such a measure reduces a CB750 to a piece of junk--no safety inspection could be past like that--the bike is totaled. --I hear the uproar, but since neither my family nor I have any intentions to ever return to God's Own Country...-- Nor do I believe that the Honda engineers were total morons when they created the CB750, and that any changes to the bike are an improvement, or any aftermarket part automatically has to be better than the original.
The last time I had to PCS from San Diego to Germany, I didn't ship my bike for free in a container with the household goods. Instead, I paid $ 500 to have it crated and delivered to Lindbergh Field. Then I dished out more money than I paid for the bike new--to have it flown from San Diego to Frankfurt. I tell you this so you understand what my priorities are. I had my CB750 before I got married in 1980. The marriage lasted 12years. Now, my second marriage is already lasting 24 years. But I and my Honda, we have been together happily for 39 years. And like I said before: if you take care of your Honda, it will always look as beautiful as the day you first met. Who can say that about their wives? You get my point.
 I realize that such statements might not be raising my popularity here. But if someone needed help here, I have always been there without much advertising (just mailed out a package today via military mail containing a primary drive that was fixed here in Germany). Moreover,  I actually spend more time riding than writing.
As a preventive side note--I have been a member of HONDA SOHC Four Club for a long, long time which is not reflected here.  But when Glenn changed everything for the site, all memberships and numbers were lost.




Thanks again for the nomination. But the Seeley it is.

P.S.: I get my gratification knowing, that mine is the only CB750 with current California tags driving around in the Alps and Dolomites. Now, that's special. I say  CB750, because guess what parked in front of my favorite hotel in Austria last year? Don't you love the plate?

[BPellerine]

hey wobbly the whole point of the nomination is that the bike IS original and used as they should be,not everyone can say they have kept their bike for as long as you have and used it.I had a 74 when they were popular but did not realize what a bike they were.billp

[Retro Rocket]

Whilst I agree with most things wobbly said, a frame kit, as long as its a good one and fitted properly, won't make the bike worse, nor will it effect its eligibility for the road, there are plenty of Japanese bikes, with a hell of a lot more power, with bolt in frame sections and they seem to do alright. Motorcycle registration in Australia is very strict and they pass here easily, if done properly. The second point of contention is, that you certainly can make these bikes better {if thats what you want to do}, not by butchering them as you've pointed out, but by sensible mods designed to improve handling, braking and of course, tires, all of the mods I refer to are used in racing and definitely improve the breed, you don't have to "butcher" a bike to make it better, if that's what you choose to do......

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

I say  CB750, because guess what parked in front of my favorite hotel in Austria last year? Don't you love the plate?

Wobbly,

That is so amazing that you've had your K7 since day one.  And you've done an amazing job keeping it in OUTSTANDING shape,

The photo looks to me like a Honda VFR800.

[jaguar]

Im very bias this month....lol

Love to hear the history and stories of these bikes.

[Wobbly]

Whilst I agree with most things wobbly said, a frame kit, as long as its a good one and fitted properly, won't make the bike worse, nor will it effect its eligibility for the road, there are plenty of Japanese bikes, with a hell of a lot more power, with bolt in frame sections and they seem to do alright. Motorcycle registration in Australia is very strict and they pass here easily, if done properly. The second point of contention is, that you certainly can make these bikes better {if thats what you want to do}, not by butchering them as you've pointed out, but by sensible mods designed to improve handling, braking and of course, tires, all of the mods I refer to are used in racing and definitely improve the breed, you don't have to "butcher" a bike to make it better, if that's what you choose to do......

I understand the usefulness of the frame kit--but if you cut up your frame like this here, you just invalidated the general permit (Betriebserlaubnis) for that vehicle and invalidated your insurance. That frame is junk. In Germany--and some other European countries--you have to have a TUEV certification--which requires the manufacturer to spend lots of money on official testing to get governmental approval. That is what makes parts extremely expensive in order to be legal.  When the police pulls you over, they will see if any changes are documented in your registration or if you have a general permit for parts that are not original. While they certainly go overboard in Germany, I prefer that over some of the things I see coming my way on stateside roads--too put it mildly. None of this is a problem for me yet, as I am simply stationed here and don't have to pass the German inspection--although the military is getting tougher too--pressured by the German government. But since we have decided to stay--like a lot of others who came here with the military, I need to be prepared for the day that I don't have logistic support anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_%C3%9Cberwachungsverein


But that is not my main point. Let's say you have a K0 in perfect condition. Would you think that you greatly raise its value by cutting the frame like that? Right. Why would I apply a different standard to my bike?

I am not a puritan either, but I like to make changes that are reversible and not final. I run EBC double front brake--because the original setup is atrocious. I use an electronic ignition, progressive fork springs, Konis, a lithium battery, tapered steering bearing kit in the front,  and a needle bearing kit in the rear. The horn is from a K6--because it's chrome, the chain guard from an F2--because it's chrome but otherwise identical.

But what if I want more horsepower or a much better suspension? Well, I hop on one of my new bikes. In the meantime, I appreciate every little part that is still available from Honda instead of going bargain shopping at Walmart. It's my personal preference, that's all.

[Retro Rocket]

Whilst I agree with most things wobbly said, a frame kit, as long as its a good one and fitted properly, won't make the bike worse, nor will it effect its eligibility for the road, there are plenty of Japanese bikes, with a hell of a lot more power, with bolt in frame sections and they seem to do alright. Motorcycle registration in Australia is very strict and they pass here easily, if done properly. The second point of contention is, that you certainly can make these bikes better {if thats what you want to do}, not by butchering them as you've pointed out, but by sensible mods designed to improve handling, braking and of course, tires, all of the mods I refer to are used in racing and definitely improve the breed, you don't have to "butcher" a bike to make it better, if that's what you choose to do......

I understand the usefulness of the frame kit--but if you cut up your frame like this here, you just invalidated the general permit (Betriebserlaubnis) for that vehicle and invalidated your insurance. That frame is junk. In Germany--and some other European countries--you have to have a TUEV certification--which requires the manufacturer to spend lots of money on official testing to get governmental approval. That is what makes parts extremely expensive in order to be legal.  When the police pulls you over, they will see if any changes are documented in your registration or if you have a general permit for parts that are not original. While they certainly go overboard in Germany, I prefer that over some of the things I see coming my way on stateside roads--too put it mildly. None of this is a problem for me yet, as I am simply stationed here and don't have to pass the German inspection--although the military is getting tougher too--pressured by the German government. But since we have decided to stay--like a lot of others who came here with the military, I need to be prepared for the day that I don't have logistic support anymore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technischer_%C3%9Cberwachungsverein


But that is not my main point. Let's say you have a K0 in perfect condition. Would you think that you greatly raise its value by cutting the frame like that? Right. Why would I apply a different standard to my bike?

I am not a puritan either, but I like to make changes that are reversible and not final. I run EBC double front brake--because the original setup is atrocious. I use an electronic ignition, progressive fork springs, Konis, a lithium battery, tapered steering bearing kit in the front,  and a needle bearing kit in the rear. The horn is from a K6--because it's chrome, the chain guard from an F2--because it's chrome but otherwise identical.

But what if I want more horsepower or a much better suspension? Well, I hop on one of my new bikes. In the meantime, I appreciate every little part that is still available from Honda instead of going bargain shopping at Walmart. It's my personal preference, that's all.

So are you telling me that NO modifications can be made to a bike in Germany..?  Anything can be approved if its engineered properly....

[BPellerine]

seelys are Hondas in engine only,everything else is one mans vision of a really nice bike.billp

[jaguar]

And a Shelby Cobra is just a kit car.

[Zunspec]

seelys are Hondas in engine only,everything else is one mans vision of a really nice bike.billp

The Seeley Honda was sold as a frame kit to many customers who would then swap parts from their standard CB750 to complete the bike.  This would typically include the Honda forks, wheels, brakes, instruments etc. so usually not just the engine  .  Colin Seeley also sold these as complete bikes direct from his factory and with his close ties to Honda did not have to purchase a donor bike but could get the necessary Honda parts separately.  My bike is a factory machine but I have no idea how many of these were made by Seeley out of the 300 odd frames that were produced.

Cheers  Geoff

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

How amazing is it that Wobbly is an original owner, and that Geoff is only once-removed from the original owner of a truly rare Seeley-factory bike. 

It is incredible that both of these bikes are still so damn original (with the exception of Geoff's pipes). 

Wobbly,
Have you needed to rebuild the engine since 1977?

[Zunspec]

I did not see any workable options other than to replace the silencers sadly.



After examination by those that know the chrome plating process we determined the originals would not withstand repair + polishing + re-chrome with any certainty a different part of the silencer would not blow out.  I have kept the originals though, they might be salvaged if the bike becomes a show queen and the engine does not need to run (small chance of that while I can still get on the bike  )

Cheers   Geoff

[Terry in Australia]

I love Seeley's, I used to stare at the Seeley CB750 rolling chassis at Bol D'or in Melbourne in 1978 when I bought my 1975 CB750F (new old stock, they sdidn't sell well in Oz, 'cos they were Fugly.....) and wish I could afford one. Now I can afford one, I can't find one. Oh well. And I agree with Wobbly, get rid of that horrible K7, (Honda's "Red Headed Step Child") it's only lowering the real estate values.......... Just kidding..........

[Wobbly]

So are you telling me that NO modifications can be made to a bike in Germany..?  Anything can be approved if its engineered properly....

It costs a fortune to get all the official testing done and TUEV certificates required to get permits for most changes. That is, for example, that an Ilmberger Carbon part with TUEV certificate costs a lot more than the identical part without such a certification. The clip-on handlebars and rear fender I just put on the RNineT come with such certificates which--if I would have German registration--I would have to carry with me at all times.
Cutting an original frame is a no go in Germany. You lose the vehicle type approval that Honda once had to get to sell this particular model.
I just put Pirellis on my Harley Davidson for the original Harley/Michelin tires are complete junk. The Pirellis are made for my particular bike, but Pirelli has not gotten the release note from the government yet. A doesn't matter to me, but the dealership was all concerned because you lose your vehicle type approval for the bike which invalidates your insurance. It's a German thing mein Fuehrer.

[flatlander]

i have a lot of respect for those bikes that are in pretty much original shape, kept running well and being used as they should be. so wobbly, don't undersell yourself or your bike!

the seeley is a gem and i'm undecided between that one wobbly's at this point. the 350 is nicely done but i do prefer the survivor aura of the other two.

[Wobbly]

Wobbly,
Have you needed to rebuild the engine since 1977?

I shy away from this word because installing oversized pistons is not really a rebuild, but I consider that maintenance--just like changing the drive chain. After all, it's something you can do up to three times with our Hondas (while the BMW RR requires a new engine every time at a bargain price of 10,500 Euros). When the pistons were no longer within specs, 0.25 oversize were installed. While at it, cam chain and tensioner were replaced. I also replaced cam shaft and the cam shaft holders, valves, and every bolt or nut I touched--but simply because they were laying around. When Honda parts were discontinued, I started buying NOS parts when ever I could, just like I bought available  Honda parts that I might use sometime-because these parts only get more expensive or become completely unavailable I now realize that my bike will outlive me. I also understand that my kids would probably trade the bike for the latest generation cell phone in no time. So I started to replace parts that are in excellent condition with brand new parts--because I have those, and it's fun to do so. I sold my tank and side covers--all in mint condition--to someone in the forum here for very little money-because I had two more new sets of each. I have another set of mufflers sitting here and boxes of NOS parts, new seat--you name it.
Understand that this was not the initial plan. My bonding with the Honda developed in the first two decades. The Honda is the one constant in my life. It was not my first choice when I bought it. But now, I would not trade it for anything although I can pretty much buy now what ever bike I like--I have little respect for guys who have to negotiate these matters with their wives first (nor do I give a damn about my popularity here--therefore you get open and honest). But to travel with the same bike I traveled with almost 40 years ago--and the bike that traveled several continents with me--that is something no other bike can give me. But none of this means anything to anybody but me. There is nothing special about the bike to anybody else.
My crankcase is in original condition and so is my frame--not repainted. I never rebuilt in that sense. Nor has my bike ever been in anything but in excellent condition. But then I have never cut corners with any of my vehicles. That is exactly why I am so upset about my experience with BMW. I guess, they just don't build bikes like our Hondas anymore. And then, of course, the lastest consumer report regarding motorcycle reliability tells the rest of the story (all four Japanese brands are best, BMW the worst in reliability--worse than Ducati or Harley).

My Honda is not bike of the month--it's bike of a life--but only to me.

[70CB750]

Not just Germany, Czech DMV laws are pretty similar.  Like the size of tires has to match the technical documentation for instance - the original technical documentation.

So are you telling me that NO modifications can be made to a bike in Germany..?  Anything can be approved if its engineered properly....

It costs a fortune to get all the official testing done and TUEV certificates required to get permits for most changes. That is, for example, that an Ilmberger Carbon part with TUEV certificate costs a lot more than the identical part without such a certification. The clip-on handlebars and rear fender I just put on the RNineT come with such certificates which--if I would have German registration--I would have to carry with me at all times.
Cutting an original frame is a no go in Germany. You lose the vehicle type approval that Honda once had to get to sell this particular model.
I just put Pirellis on my Harley Davidson for the original Harley/Michelin tires are complete junk. The Pirellis are made for my particular bike, but Pirelli has not gotten the release note from the government yet. A doesn't matter to me, but the dealership was all concerned because you lose your vehicle type approval for the bike which invalidates your insurance. It's a German thing mein Fuehrer.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Good read,  yes I'd say you and your bike have quite a bond! Congrats on the mileage and maintenance.  No  doubt they'd take my bike if stopped!! Lol, Bill 

[Wobbly]

Not just Germany, Czech DMV laws are pretty similar.  Like the size of tires has to match the technical documentation for instance - the original technical documentation.

In Germany, not just the size has to be identical--but the particular tire model has to be permitted and have a release note for that particular motorcycle.
Like I wrote, I have a bunch of permits from the BMW dealership from when they installed the clip-on bars. For a clean install, a new brake line was also needed. Even that brake line needs its own release note--more like a booklet. If you change a lot of things in Germany, you need to have saddlebags just to carry all the permits with you. Let me show you what the release note just for the brake line looks like--and you gain a better understanding of the bureaucracy in this country.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Wobbly,
Have you needed to rebuild the engine since 1977?

I shy away from this word because installing oversized pistons is not really a rebuild, but I consider that maintenance--just like changing the drive chain. After all, it's something you can do up to three times with our Hondas (while the BMW RR requires a new engine every time at a bargain price of 10,500 Euros). When the pistons were no longer within specs, 0.25 oversize were installed. While at it, cam chain and tensioner were replaced. I also replaced cam shaft and the cam shaft holders, valves, and every bolt or nut I touched--but simply because they were laying around. When Honda parts were discontinued, I started buying NOS parts when ever I could, just like I bought available  Honda parts that I might use sometime-because these parts only get more expensive or become completely unavailable I now realize that my bike will outlive me. I also understand that my kids would probably trade the bike for the latest generation cell phone in no time. So I started to replace parts that are in excellent condition with brand new parts--because I have those, and it's fun to do so. I sold my tank and side covers--all in mint condition--to someone in the forum here for very little money-because I had two more new sets of each. I have another set of mufflers sitting here and boxes of NOS parts, new seat--you name it.
Understand that this was not the initial plan. My bonding with the Honda developed in the first two decades. The Honda is the one constant in my life. It was not my first choice when I bought it. But now, I would not trade it for anything although I can pretty much buy now what ever bike I like--I have little respect for guys who have to negotiate these matters with their wives first (nor do I give a damn about my popularity here--therefore you get open and honest). But to travel with the same bike I traveled with almost 40 years ago--and the bike that traveled several continents with me--that is something no other bike can give me. But none of this means anything to anybody but me. There is nothing special about the bike to anybody else.
My crankcase is in original condition and so is my frame--not repainted. I never rebuilt in that sense. Nor has my bike ever been in anything but in excellent condition. But then I have never cut corners with any of my vehicles. That is exactly why I am so upset about my experience with BMW. I guess, they just don't build bikes like our Hondas anymore. And then, of course, the lastest consumer report regarding motorcycle reliability tells the rest of the story (all four Japanese brands are best, BMW the worst in reliability--worse than Ducati or Harley).

My Honda is not bike of the month--it's bike of a life--but only to me.

Wobbly,

Now, I like that bike even more!

I, too, have a K7 but she was neither stock nor reliable when I got her for a few hundred bucks.


I love the fact that you have kept that bike all these years and will not get rid of it.  Keep on enjoying it.  I am also impressed with the bottom end never needing to be cracked open for 200,000 miles -- a testament to civil riding and great maintenance. 

Thankfully, my girl would never ask me to sell any of my bikes.  She just has me keep the overflow in our garage in a storage space.  She knows how much they make me happy.

[edwardmorris]

..............I have little respect for guys who have to negotiate these matters with their wives first...............

LMAO 

Love the rest of the story, thanks for sharing. Voted.